Never tried one but based on the price alone I personally would spend my money on a good dynamic mic.
Just my two cents.

Yeqh, I have some nice dynamics already. I run sm57 on everyting but bottom snare where I use an audiotechnica. I'm also getting a 421 for floortom and vox soon but the overheads are terrible. Behringer c2 harsh, disgusting condensers.
With the black widows I'm hoping to capture atleast more of the kit, but if they also suck I'll try them on anything else. If they wont do on anything then so be it, not that great loss anyway.

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Most Affordable Condensers I tried and some I still own had that harsh sound you're talking about.. I wish the Black Widow is different.

I imagine that the industry knows that the first mistake of a beginner is to want a crisp clear sound from a mic and the designers count on this to sell more.. No fact here, just plain frustration from years of recording on a budget ;)

All in all, you can always use a multiband compressor or a dynamic EQ to smooth you sound. Also, since I begin to buy more High end gear, I learned that the mic is part of an equation with your preamp and converters. I had succes with not so expensive C1000s and also KSM 32(nicely priced used on ebay) I should receive 2 shure KSM 44 today, from ebay.. I choose those over C414 because they are known to be less crisp than the C414. I'll let you know about them when I have time to make some tests.
Thinking about your harshness.. Your room sound may not helping you... Did you consider trying some dynamic mics as overheard.. sm58 or 57 ??

No I havn't tried that but I'll give it a try! I'll be testing out different mics on different drums as soon as I get them. I'll check if I have a pic of my room to.

As far as preamps go I still got a long way to go. I use a behringer xl2400 board to preeq drums befor my presonus firestudio interface so there I have a very weak link in the chain. The eq sucks on it but I don't think I have my studios income to afford a new board at this point so I'm upgrading mics and plugins instead and try to get as good as it gets with what I got. I've been looking at presonus studiolive 24.4.2 and behringer x32 with the midas preamps but it's big showel in the goldmine for those :(

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Here's two pics I found. As you can see it's cheap foam absorbers an diffusors randomly on walls and ceiling. No analyze or anything like that, just clapping my hands in various positions to find the echos and remove those with foam.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hv3okpvrxrrddvk/20131124_175105.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3osca6es5s9rx51/20131122_161500.jpg

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i work outa 2 studios owned by the same dude, one of them uses the AT3035 on overheads, which beat out the 414's, nt5's, sm81's, which are all very nice mics in their own right, and often parked above a kit.

these mics are great and at about 100 bucks a pop, will not be beat for a budget LDC imo.

they pick up a bit extra high end like all condensers, and aren't quite as smooth as the 414 is for other things, but the 414's tended to pick up a bit more cymbals than i like, so the AT's win for the 'default' setup we use at this studio. that said i've had good luck w/ a 414's, and 81's. i've also heard good things about the ksm series mics as well.

also, if your using the 8ch fire studio, why not just bypass the mixer, or if your using more mics than that, save the board for the less integral things like hat/ride, or maybe for toms, that could have some samples layered?

+edit+ mono price ldcs, got some very positive reviews in tape op recently, at 80bucks, it's worth a shot, and i think they have a 30 day guarantee as well.

I searched for the at3035 but they seem to be discontinnued, no luck with ebay on this side of the globe either :(

I like to have knobs on a analoge mixer to set eq on drums so thats why I got this mixer. It was the only one in my pricerange with direct outs. For me it feels harder to do all the eq itb with plugins, I don't know but I actually don't get as good results as going through the mixer. It's wierd...but I guess it has become a standard to preeq and that messes up my eq itb if I don't use a board.

Anyways, I love this time ayear! Great deals show up since people need money for christmasgifts or whatever. I just clicked home a beta 52, so when I get all mics I'll try a recording with beta 52 on kick, sm57 top snare, at mb2k bottom snare, sm57s on racktoms, 421 on floortom one and d112 on floortom 2. I think this might be a good setup for closemics, maybe a sub on the kick also. So then I just need to get decent OHs that woukd capture the whole kit instead of the crap behringers that just sound like hyped cymbalmics.

Maybe it's time to start practice without a mixer also. I got a firestudio and firestudio project daisy chained so I got 16 inputs for all mics. Atleast they should have better preamps...

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Yeah, while tracking, I'd try to not preeq anything. Just connect the mics to the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.presonus…"]PreSonus[/]="http://www.presonus…"]PreSonus[/] firestudio interface and/or the FireStudio™ Project and see how it sounds. Play with the placement if you don't like something. EQ at mix time and see if it makes a difference.. And also watch out for phase problems it can play alot on the results.

Wow, I just checked out the mono price ldc mic. 64bucks!? How can someone make a mic at that price and get any profit from it? That's just insane :D

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(Dead Link Removed)

here's some 3035's. i love to eq and compress on the way in, but i just wonder if your improving your sound or not w/ an eq like that. but obviously thats up to your ears. you might want to look into the Rane pe15, (Dead Link Removed)

your drum mic array seems nice for your close mics.

Wow, I just checked out the mono price ldc mic. 64bucks!? How can someone make a mic at that price and get any profit from it? That's just insane :D

overseas manufacturing, and higher tolerances. we use there trs cables/adapters for headphone runs, instead of those skinny black radio shaft ones, and two years later not a hint of a bad connection. Monoprice has an excellent reputation.

I never EQ on tracking and refrain from compression as well (of course sometime you don't have a choice)
The reason is, this is some destructive moves, you can't go back. Let's say your converter tricks you and what you hear while tracking is actually difference from what the converter output to your DAW. Maybe paranoia !! ;)

Thanks for the links, but I'm afraid I got a shop-oholic kick the past few days and ran out of cash :D got a 421 and a beta 52 coming in hopefully next week and I also stumbled over two uad-2 solo cards for 300$ so I just had to get them as the uad cards are rare over here and a new one cost 400$ so it felt like a nice deal. I'm having some hope on the black widows as overheads but I'll just have to wait and try before I get anything else there. I'm also about to finnish a ep for a band so with the payment of that I'll be getting a sub and a new headphoneamp and I also need more xlr connectors soldered between the rec and control room. So I got alot going on and the money is rollin out almost faster than it gets in :D but I'm glad to be stepping up in the game now gearwise.

I'll upload a raw drumrecording from the latest session later so that you guys can hear what it sounds like with the setup I use now.

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kmetal, post: 409025 wrote:

you might want to look into the Rane pe15, (Dead Link Removed)

plus one!

Here's the dry drums from my latest recording going through the behringer mixer with eq on. Only thing I've done is set volymes, pan and invert phase on subkick and bottom snare. Here's a list of the mics used:
Kick: akg d112 inside and a diy subkick
Snare: sm57 top and audio-technica mb2k
Toms: sm57
Hihat: behringer b2pro LDC
Overheads: behringer c2 SDC xy-setup
Room: t.bone em500 SDC

So tell me what you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/do1mw69nr3lc27n/Drydrums.mp3

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Hey how do you use the rane eq since it's just one channel? Do you rerun all tracks through it once they are recorded and in your daw?

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Nutti, post: 409037 wrote: Hey how do you use the rane eq since it's just one channel? Do you rerun all tracks through it once they are recorded and in your daw?

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i never put off to tomorrow anything i can do today.

things either sound good or they sound bad. i eq to tape and i compress to tape (only if needed). i think a lot of people compress too many things, too much. only a few things in a mix really need compression. . compression can always be added later if it's needed for effect or to help bring something forward in the mix.

eqi'ng is something that either sounds right or it doesn't. sometimes you just have to make a decision. put too much off till mix and you will be confused by the myriad of options. make a freakin' decision once in a while.

Kurt Foster, post: 409038 wrote: i never put off to tomorrow anything i can do today.

things either sound good or they sound bad. i eq to tape and i compress to tape (only if needed). i think a lot of people compress too many things, too much. only a few things in a mix really need compression. . compression can always be added later if it's needed for effect or to help bring something forward in the mix.

eqi'ng is something that either sounds right or it doesn't. sometimes you just have to make a decision. put too much off till mix and you will be confused by the myriad of options. make a freakin' decision once in a while.

except for the UA LA2A. I track with that baby going in every time! Sheer vocal heaven. Never sounds quite as lush after.
+1 on compression. Nothing like killing a mix using comps on everything. Even just having plug-in comps on the chain is destructive.

I need a few of these for side chain. What a deal.

Nutti, post: 409036 wrote: Here's the dry drums from my latest recording. Only thing I've done is set volymes, pan and invert phase on subkick and bottom snare. Here's a list of the mics used:
Kick: akg d112 inside and a diy subkick
Snare: sm57 top and audio-technica mb2k
Toms: sm57
Hihat: behringer b2pro LDC
Overheads: behringer c2 SDC xy-setup
Room: t.bone em500 SDC

So tell me what you think?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/do1mw69nr3lc27n/Drydrums.mp3

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Nice. I like the kick. Nice work actually . The cymbals sound a bit swirly but you have a really good start imho. Individually the tracks sounds like good potential. The snare might lack a better mid that comes with better mic and pre but hey, keep rocking.

Not to depress you but I love how Uli Frost makes drums sound.

I shoot for this, the intro and the ending have a few spots where you hear some serious size. : It may help you open you ears into where it should be or could be. If you are relevant to the mix, thats the main objective.

Thats fantastic! All that outboard gear :p

I'm thinking this as an realistic budget for me: I recently bought 2 uad2 solo cards real cheap and hoping to get them befor the 31st this month so I could shop some plugs on sale. I think I will go for the ampex tape machine and a channelstrip and run the tape across all inputs and simply print the the tape as sound is recorded to free dsp for mixing. With the channelstrip I've been looking at the neve 88rs and controling all parameters with my behringer bcr2000 midi controller. Then it would feel more like having a console infront of you and as I've read the uad plugin sound is very accurate to the actual hardware products. I think I could then ditch the behringer mixer with ease.

This thread kinda flew away from the original topic but it is so interesting to talk with guys that actually no what they are talking about. :)

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Hey how do you use the rane eq since it's just one channel? Do you rerun all tracks through it once they are recorded and in your daw?

there's two of them, and i just patch them between the pre-amp, and the line in. i use them to eq on the way in (usually to sweeten the snare top.bottom), i try to correct things w/ tuning, mic placement, and use (usually only 1 or 2 bands) from those eq's for enhancement.

i don't compress everything on the way in or out. but more often than not, bass guitar, and vocals will get some on the way in, and once in a while some snare/kick or maybe a very dynamic acoustic gtr. often on the bass it will be parallel compression, blended into one rec track.

my attitude is the less i have to do later, the less i can mess it up later (in theory at least).

ps. your drum recording sounds nice. i nice set of overheads would bring more presence, or maybe i mean definition to the kit, but really, good job.

Hum that's where we differ. When tracking, I rarely process the signal going to the DAW. I figured, since I'm rushing to install mics and doing headphone mixes. (and also been blast by the exited drummer along the way) By the time I hit record, I'm bound to make mistakes with EQs or others. So recording raw tracks makes more sense to me. That way I can get down to mixing with clear head and ears and with all the tracks to make decisions.

Thanks for all the answers guys!

I get your point pcrecord and it makes alot of sence! It's a stressful moment to rig up mics and setting everything for a recording, and when I think about it I have also made some eqing that I have later regretted. I thought about this subject today as I was in my studio and I think it's time to say goodbye to my behringer mixer and spend the money where it really helps instead. So I hooked on the Slate digital VCC sale today and as I did that the fact is I will probably never use a console in my small project studio again.

When I began I bought alot of stuff that I've been selling all autumn when I realized that it wasn't the way I wanted to work. I did stuff way to complicated and overprocessed everything. My 24U rack is now holding 7U of hardware and it is time to get rid of that also and instead build me a new table with intergrated rackmounts. It's time to do everything from basics, I learned the hard way but now I got my road pretty clear.

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Hi! Again!

So I got my mxl black widows today...NOT! But I got a package that said that with a akg d88 s and a peavey pv14 mixer instead!? Stupid people! :(

So I guess I'll be on the hunt for some ldc mics again...should I go for two of the monoprice ldcs? As said before, I'm looking for mics that would capture the whole kit not just some harsh cymbals. I'm thinking the monoprice can't be worse than the behringer c2 I got now and as kmetal stated, they have had a great review.

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You should defenitly rent some and decide by yourself. If you want to buy cheap : [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.musician…"]CAD CM217 Condenser Mic - Buy One, Get One Free | Musician's Friend[/]="http://www.musician…"]CAD CM217 Condenser Mic - Buy One, Get One Free | Musician's Friend[/] but I think it's not worth buying cheap when already having cheap mics.. If you feel your cheap mic are not up to the job, why buying other cheap mic.. it's not a question of chance. (Hey I might end up with a wednesday produce mic that will be better than all others..) ;)

There's a lot more than mic choice to get a good sound.. The choice of the instrument : if the cymbals sound bad (ex some B8 are not pleasing to hear). The placement (to close or partially out of phase mics will sound thin or harsh)
When it comes to overheads, they will certainly pickup room sound.. so how the room sound is critical. For exemple, if I put too much 2k to 5k absorbtion. All your recordings will be missing those frequencies and other frequencies will seem like being boosted !
I'm feeling like stating the obvious but : instrument, room, mics and placement, cables, preamp, converters, trained ears, monitoring environment and monitors, mixing skills and listening volume. All this you need to master to have a great sound !!

It's a recipe ! Before spending money change the way you play with the ingredients.

Yeah I get your point. I use Sabian aax series so I don't think that is the problem. I think the weakest link at this point is my overheads, the rest is somewhat decent gear. I know it is a stupid question to ask what kind of mics I should get since the best choice is often by the pricetag. I'm just a guy with a small project studio so I can't afford top notch stuff. I would just like to get the most out of my money spent, and know that I have upgraded to a point where I know that if it sounds like crap it's not the microphones.

I've pinned down to ldc mics to capture the whole kit as I understand these would pick up more low end than sdc mics. After that it is more or less a jungle...I can't afford to spend more than maybe 400-500 dollars and the reason people ask on places like this is becouse of guys that have experience with more microphones than just some 40 dollar crap.

I must also say I am impressed of you people who answer the somewhat same questions over and over, year after year. All my respect to all of you, I know I would get enough of it at some point.

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I'm right with you; small studio, small budget.. But you know What I learned ? Most budget condensers have the same thing in common. Too bright, to crisp..
I bought 2 ksm44 from ebay 400$ and 435$.. they are sounding amazing compared to my studio project C1 (which is not bad for a budget mic). maybe you can start with one ! There's no law forcing you to have 2 overhead. (Hard pan the toms, HH and Ride instead)

Anyway, you may find used mics that are worth it. I've had some good results with 2 x AKG C1000S and even a with 2 x sm57 are better than cheap condensers..

Check those AKG C430 : [="http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TWO-2-AKG-C430-CONDENSER-PROFESSIONAL-MICS-NICE-PAIR-OF-OVERHEAD-MICROPHONES-/141153250716?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Microphones&hash=item20dd63ad9c&_uhb=1"]TWO 2 AKG C430 Condenser Professional Mics Nice Pair OF Overhead Microphones 9002761005936 | eBay[/]="http://www.ebay.ca/…"]TWO 2 AKG C430 Condenser Professional Mics Nice Pair OF Overhead Microphones 9002761005936 | eBay[/]

or those Oktava MK012: [[url=http://="http://www.ebay.ca/…"]Oktava MK 012 Condenser Microphone Stereo Pair Drums Overheads Guitar Piono | eBay[/]="http://www.ebay.ca/…"]Oktava MK 012 Condenser Microphone Stereo Pair Drums Overheads Guitar Piono | eBay[/]

Thanks! The akg c1000s seems in my budget, I also looked at the rode nt1a any experience with those? The sell in matched pair and would also be in my budget range. Lots of people seem to talk good about them on both vocals and as overheads.

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i've got an nt1a and that thing is terrible (also for sale). Cascade makes some really respected sdc, and ribbon mics, that fat-head is well regarded and might fair well for ya. (Dead Link Removed)

(Dead Link Removed)

the akg c3000s would be a good choice, as they will pick up a bit more body of the kit as a whole, and be a bit less harsh than the c1000's. the c3000 lives on the hat over at one of the studios. surprisingly it see's a a reasonable amount of time over mics 15x the price, maybe 1 in 10 times.

the rode nt-5's are really nice mics, tough to beat for the price.

i think these are made for exactly what would suit your needs as project studio, where you need some good tools that deliver good results. not 'my first mic set', a beginner would get, which is probably where the mono-price is a best fit. the cascades will pick up where those left off.

yeah as far as eq/compress on the way in, everyone has their workflow, i usually don't do too much, usually cut some mud, or sub lows, and brighten up a bit. i started w/ a 4track, which has eq on every channel in/and out, so it's just always been my way. when i went digital i just found that hitting an analog eq and or compressor, on the way in took lessened the sterile character of the sound directly into the pre. although i recently added like 12db of 10k on a snare drum, so no rules. anything i don't need on the way in, i'd rather not make the computer record, then have to process out anyway. if i'm not sure, i go subtle, or save it for later. again whatever works.

What I make sure i do always, is use the bypass back and forth while i'm eq'ing for a reality check. and i don't touch any of that stuff till the interments sounds good, it's in the best place in the room, and it's the right mic, and pre.

One thing that really helps me alot, especially w/ drums, is to have the band load the drums in before the first tracking session, so you can set them up, tune them, get your mics, w/out the pressure of someone tapping their watch, or losing inspiration. after a couple hours of setup, alot of bands have lost interest, so i do this equally for their creativity/workflow, and to give myself the time i think i need, w/out as much pressure. you can just ballpark it in w/ a friend who can hit drums, or have the band do. the financials are up to you how you charge. but there's nothing like knowing the night before the session, that you can walk in, power up, and hit record w/in 15 min, w/ great sounds, and a nice cue mix.

i learned this from an engineer who recorded my band in the late 90's, and exercise it as much as possible. i know how it is under pressure during setup time, but they have to know it takes time. one of the things i'm learning from my boss is to be relaxed, and take the time to get a good sound, w/ out treating every project like it's a Tool album, where they may take a week or two just for the drums. at our place guitars tend to take about 15-30min drums about 2-3 hours, counting load in/tuning. for something that be an e.p or demo. an album project could double or triple those times, but that includes patching in all kinds of gear, trying a bunch of amps and mics, and really 'dialing in' on a custom sound.

i'm lucky in that i am allowed to go to the studio early and use my free time to make some more complex setups, and i often do, so i can gain as much experience as possible.

p.s- another option here, which is perfectly fine, is to get a really nice mic, like a AKG- used 414, a 214, or 451 (sdc), and have something that is common in an a commercial facility. There is absolutely nothing wrong w/ a mono overhead, or acoustic guitar. i rarely stereo mic an acoustic that is gonna be overdubbed L/R. the 414 is also a nice 'further out' mic on electric guitar, in addition to a close mic. there not the only mics out there. the sure sm81 is killer as well.

Generally, the Rode NT1 is a very respectable LDC mic in its price range.

I have more than a couple of the mics being discussed, including an NT1 and it sounds very decent. All I can say is, kmetal must have a defective/damaged NT1.

While I'm at it, I'll say this about the mics mentioned in this thread that I own and use: I also like an AKG C3000 on certain hi-hats. The AKG C430 is a respectable micro SDC comparable to the A-T Pro37, mine gets used live more than for recording since I have better mics for recording. Lots of the pros here HATE the C1000, I have a couple and have gotten good results on a variety of instruments. I have C414 and C451s, and virtually all AKG condensers are hyped in the 'presence' frequencies with a bump somewhere in the 2kHz-4kHz range. I do often try to tame that with a little EQ (especially the C1000s). If you use a bunch of them on a multi-track recording those 'presence boosts' really start to accumulate (usually not in a good way). The Rode NT5 matched pair is remarkably good for the price. I would describe the SM81 as the smoothest of them all (without being dull in any way).

Again there's also no law that says you have to use condenser mics. I can think of a lot more uses for yet another SM57 or 58, than any cheap condenser. I would not be in a hurry to buy anything that wasn't a definite upgrade. Condensers are very sensitive to moisture and I would be very cautious about buying one on eBay unless it was brand new from a highly rated seller.

Best of luck!

kmetal must have a defective/damaged NT1.

i just shouldn't bash the mic as hard as i do, i actually really like it on djembe's, and even acoustic as part of an array. i think it's just a taste thing more than the mic is terrible thing.

+1 on doesnt have to be condenser. one of the coolest drum sounds i ever got was a cheap kick, and a single 57 OH. in some kids 2nd floor bedroom w/ pitched ceilings. 2 mics.

I looked around abit and found two akg c3000 for 400$, would that be something to hook on? As I'm on the wrong side of the globe, good deals on audio gear is hard to find.

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are those used? [URL="link removed C3000 Studio Microphone 2785X00230 B&H Photo Video[/URL] this place has them for 200 new. not sure what the shipping would be to your neck of the woods. this is the latest model, i guess they reissued it.

http://www.pixelproaudio.com/all/akg-c3000b-silver-microphone-s18953.html?gclid=CM274ZLD5rsCFahj7AodqmIA-g this place has them for 159 w/ free shipping. i have never dealt w/ them so i can't say how reputable they are, but they were a sponsored link on google.
this is the silver one which is the one i've used.

i couldn't find any for less than 150 plus shipping used, so i'd say it's a great deal for two new ones, they'll likely be better matched than to random used ones IMHO

Yes, they are used. I would get 24% of taxes added to the price plus custom charges thqt I think was 4% on mics. That would ad up to 512$+ shipping and new ones here are 540$ so it's not worth it for me.

I checked the other link and that seems to be a bit strange cuz I an't access the about page of the customer service page.

Im also a little sceptic to buy from the states now since my last package was not anything of what I ordered. It also is a pain in the a$$ to get it (english word for getting customs fee paid, can't remember the word I'm looking for now) in this country. It has all got to the point where the customer has to do it himself via internet, a couple of years ago you could just go to the customs office and they would do it for you but times have changed and they have closed the majority of the customs offices in this country. It took me 4hours+a phone call to the customs office in our capital+another hour to get it done. So it's alot of work to buy something from the states these days and with a shipping time of atleast a month it's just not worth it.

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I think none of us us insisting that You buy from us. But we must compare prices from somewhere.

Anothere thing to consider is ribbon mics. I don't have any but plan to buy Some soon. They are told to be smooth and may be what You need to keep those cymbals from beeing so harsh

Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de [[url=http://[/URL]="http://tapatalk.com…"]Tapatalk[/]="http://tapatalk.com…"]Tapatalk[/]

nutti, i totally just meant i thought you were getting a good deal w/ the link you found. in other words, around here i couldn't find a better deal domestically than you can domestically. it doesn't make any sense for you to ship it from across the globe like you said. those mics are the same relative price seemingly around the world, no bargains over here. as long as there is a good return policy/guarentee if they don't work, i'd say it's worth a shot.

good deal. they are cool mics. i don't think you'll be dissapointed w/ them. let us know what you decide on getting. looking forward to hearing them.

all the best!
-kyle

Nutti, post: 409407 wrote: As I'm on the wrong side of the globe, good deals on audio gear is hard to find.

You are much closer to Austria than I am. I'm surprised AKGs are not more plentiful, and less expensive in northern Europe. I do not doubt what you're saying is true, I'm just surprised that would be the case.

Somewhere along the way, people who sell them in the US have to absorb those same customs fees, taxes, tariffs, duty, etc. to get them imported here and pass that cost along to the buyer.

But since kmetal found a legitimate US retailer selling the new C3000 for $199, when they sold for $449 just a few years ago - it might make me wonder if they are still made in Austria.

I just nailed the deal on the two akg c3000 for 400$ and hope to get them in the beginning of next week :)

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This is the first recording with the akg c3000 mics. I used them as stereo on guitar and as overheads. Although they sound a bit thinny on both guitar and my vocal compared to my sennheiser mk4, I liked the way they sounded as overheads. I just did a cut around 400hz and a sligt compression of about -1 to -2db gain reduction and thats it. I also send them both to two buses where I had delays 73ms vs 81ms to create a virtual room sound. There was also a beta52 on the kick and a sm57 on snare.

One thing I don't get with my micing is I had them a/b and measured the distance to both mics to the center of the snare (130cm) but after listening back to my recording the snare seemed out of phase since it sounded more fat with flipped phase. What did I do wrong? Doesn't it supposed to be in phase when I measured it out? Or is it roofreflections that messes up my phase?

Pro Tools

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