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rfreez 5 July 2006

greetings

some of you may have have seen my posts regarding this on other forums... i have been looking for an optimal solution for quite some time and got some (i think) very useful input, but think theres a better solution out there.

i have recorded too many carnatic (south indian classical) music concerts close mic'd in noisy venues and am now quite sick of the sound... looking to start a little label with a 'purist' approach to do the same... i've found a big room with a great, natural reverb, now i need to buy the gear and begin testing. I have a very finite 3rd world budget and simply cannot test equipment here before buying... hell most companies aren't even represented here.

I have tried very hard to find a two mic solution, m/s looks like an option, but i'm not sure. So heres an illustration of the two options i have currently zoned into (the choice of mics is indicative... currently i am more concerned with the approach):

My questions:

* if i were to use the m/s approach here, the vocal will be 3' or more away from the array... isn't this likely to make the voice sound very thin?

*what would happen if i used an omni as the 'm' mic, in this situation?

* as long as i don't put any musicians on axis with the 's' mic, it should hold up well when folded down to mono...no? or will the balances change severely?

* if i were to go with the 3 mic approach... how will the vocal sound through the x/y pair (without the spot mic)... will it sound unstable in the stereo field? will x/y or some near coincident pair alone be enough for the trio, with the vocal anchored in the center, or willl i have to necessarily spot the vocal? (the stereo pair i guess will be directly in front of the vocal, about 5'-7' away.)

I look forward to hearing of possible alternate approaches, as well as caveats and problems i might encounter with either of the two illustrated approaches.

please note:

* i intend to use no no reverb or post production effects, at least as far as possible. Minimum number of mics is a must.
* sight lines between the 3 musicians should be quite good.
* vocalist has to be in the centre of the soundstage at all times
* mrithangam (two headed percussion instrument) has the potential to be louder than the voice, but plays a supporting role only... i should be able to place it far enough so that it doesn't override the voice.
* most of the musicians are old and very senior... pretty set in their ways... i won't for example be able to ask them to look up and sing into a blumlein pair or change the approximate positions/orientation of the musicians...

thanks in advance for any inputs.

rfreez.

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Comments

jean François … Thu, 07/30/2015 - 16:32

kavichandran, post: 202023 wrote: Dear Mike, Radio Vatican says that the Pope has absolved you of all sins! (Even that of winking at the Persian ladies!!!)

Speaking of the Holy See (should it not be Sea?!), have you ever tried the Radio Vatican technique? It works best for recording old Roman chant in catholic churches! And speaking of old Roman chant, there is an OUTSTANDING LP on French Harmonia Mundi, recorded by another of my "personal Gods", Jean-Francois Pontefract. This man made nearly all the great recordings put out by HM in France, a lable that though run by utter prigs, was instumental in getting me going, through its top class produtions.
Is there anyone out there who knows the "secrets" of JFP?! Do you know how and with what he blended his potent love portion # 9? I have heard (audio myths again) that he used tube mikes. More importently, that he used a compander made by Sharp/Optonica. I kid you not. This was told to me by a Frenchman no less! For the love of God, if any one of you can track him down, PLEASE interview him for us!!! If you do, you will get to kiss the Pope's hand!
Sri Sri Sir A. Blumlein. C.B.C., N.R.K., N.H.K.,
Royal Keeper of the Birds and Bees.

I am Jean François Pontefract and want give you dome précisions, thanks

jean François … Sun, 08/02/2015 - 06:57

I am home, now. Writing on my azerty computer.
Yes I used U 67 Neumann microphones but also Schoeps colette MK 5 omnidirectionnals with artificial head and also Bruel&Kjaer 4003.
I don't use Sharp/Optonica. but in analogic domain Dolby A 361 and Telcom C4 noise reduction system. But many companies used these N.R. like CBS, RCA, Polygram, Erato, this is not a secret .
Now I use for my recordings (live classical concerts but also some production for contemporary music and Organ music), Nagra VI 24bits 88.2kHz, directly with old Neumann U67 with new tubes Telefunken EF 806, Neumann KM83 or DPA 4006 in artificial Head.
Have a good day

DonnyThompson Mon, 08/03/2015 - 02:42

jean François Pontefract, post: 431339, member: 49374 wrote: Yes I used U 67 Neumann microphones but also Schoeps colette MK 5 omnidirectionnals with artificial head and also Bruel&Kjaer 4003.... with old Neumann U67 with new tubes Telefunken EF 806, Neumann KM83 or DPA 4006 in artificial Head.

Yes, I often have that exact same dilemma myself... which of those $2000 mics to place inside my $8,000 dummy head... and I can never decide, because I wake up. LOL ;)

Not that I can assist with your situation, but your mic collection would make many members here - myself included - very "envious" ... to say the least. ;)

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