I've read a bible in less time that that post :lol:

"Is 2 channel the same as stereo?"
Yes, but Mp3 has different types of stereo encoding.
The uncompressed files should be fine but the mp3 might be using Joint stereo where it basically squeezes everything near-centre to the centre. That could be M/S Stereo though, I encode to mono 48kbps these days (no joke) so I'm a bit rusty on mp3 stereo types.
Possibly, something is off by a few ms and it's causing phase problems?

You could drag the 24bit or w/e into Kristal or Audacity and export a new wav at 16bit, but that's probably not ideal.

You should be able to export directly from Sonar and have options offered at that export time to select any one of several different file settings .

Cheers guys.

I know now I need to go back to the source and start again. Just annoyed at having to redo all that work. Luckily I have notes to work from...

I still wouldn't mind finding out why I had the issues I've been having. I think it may have something to do with phasing with the stereo channels, but would that make a really loud white-noise kinda sound?

Anyways thanks for your time guys.

To go completely off topic here...

Was that a typo?...the B I mean? People from other places often use different words to describe things and every once an a while I'll come across one I've never heard/seen. In this case it's the word JAMB. I've actually seen this word used in other places for the same thing and I'm just wondering if people actually do use the work jamb in some places. If so, what places are they?

Jamb?

Or is it just some sort of slang?

This came up before, I'm sure.

I'd spell it jam, but I'd call it a mess about while otheres might call it a "rehearsal".

Dude, you can do everything you want to do properly in Adobe Audition. Believe me. It's true. You shouldn't be having this problem. The one problem you are experiencing is that Adobe Audition doesn't do 24-bit but 32-bit float. Other programs don't handle 32-bit float but can handle 24-bit. That's why I stick to 16-bit. It's totally perfectly completely adequately fine. Plus, many of these toy player programs can't play anything but stereo, 16-bit tracks. So singular mono tracks won't play or will cause the problems you described, yeah. Your MP3's should nearly sound as good as your .wav files. You've described a peculiar way of saving your files. Within Audition, you merely choose "save as" and select "Windows PCM .wav". You're choosing some kind of highly compressed multimedia format to save to. There's where your problems are starting. You're recording properly. Nothing wrong with taking 2 single mono, 24-bit, 44.1kHz tracks and mixing to stereo, 16-bit, 44.1kHz, in the software that recorded it. What is the problem is that your various software's are not all cross compatible when dealing with greater bit depths. That's why I keep telling people to stick to 16 bit! You get 96 DB of dynamic range & processing. If you can't stay within a 96 DB range, then you should look for another job? All of us professionals only had 16 bit for the past 25 years. So your equipment may be cable of 24-bit but Audition does not handle 24-bit. It takes your 24-bit of data output and adds eight more bits of zeros. And Win-Amp, isn't a professional program. It's a toy kids player. Not even sure why you are using that? It's not a reference. And jumping between your different audio software's is causing the problems. Pick a software and stick with it. If you want to jump between software's, do everything in 16 bit. You won't be getting less quality, you'll get better quality when you get things consistent. 24-bit is just marketing bull crap. It tells you your electronics are a little more capable than earlier versions. This means you get better quality when recording 16-bit with a 24-bit capable device. It's a lot like analog headroom, its digital headroom, which is a good thing but.... Everybody keeps trying to reinvent the wheel and there is no substitute for good technique & making good recordings. So acceptable quality comes in good technique and understanding what you're doing. You don't. It doesn't come with more bits or higher sample rates. I mean most of us don't own Ferraris. We own Chevrolets & Toyotas. So while everybody thinks they need 24-bit & higher sample rates to make good recordings, it's only causing more problems and lower quality levels in the hands of uninformed folks, like yourself. So even if your car is capable of 120 mph, you must generally keep the below 65. So what I'm saying is, CDs can sound adequately stunning and they're only 16-bit 44.1kHz. What's that tell you? I'll stack any of my 16-bit recordings against anybody's 24-bit crappy recordings. So why doesn't Audition handle 24-bit?? I have no idea? Why doesn't Sound Forage handle 32-bit float? I have no idea? What's the matter with these software engineers anyhow? I have no idea? I can tell you, they are not recording engineers, their nerds, geeks, eggheads.

Incredibly practical marvelous engineer.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Mam, that was helpful!

The reason I use Winamp is because that's what everyone I know plays the tracks I make in. No point making something I can't share with my friends.

You have totally sold me on 16bit now. The reason I was using 24bit was because it seemed like I could have more gain on the mic before it would hit the conversion limiter when I hit the snare or kick. Meaning I could record a tighter sound, with the amps closer to the kit.

"Within Audition, you merely choose "save as" and select "Windows PCM .wav". You're choosing some kind of highly compressed multimedia format to save to."

Just to clarify, Windows PCM .wav is the one I should be using?

Jam is for toast. :P

Greener,

Your post brought back memories of a mastering project I just completed. It was of some harpsichord music. The original recording engineer recorded it using some software that became obsolete. He transfered it to another program and then did all kinds of bit manipulation while he went from one program to yet another program and finally worked in Pro Tools. The problem was that all this bit manipulation caused the recording to sound flat and lifeless. I had to master it and make it sound better.

Take RemyRads advice and find a program and stick to it. When you are finally done and you have a stereo 44.1K 16 bit file then you can listen to it on other playback systems and use other programs like WINAMP to sample what it will sound like to the people you are trying to reach.

Best of luck!

Cheers TWB.

Your story sounds nasty, if the tracks had the kind of degradation mine did after I was done being an idiot, you would have had to have worked mighty hard to polish them up.

We all love polishing turds! Yeah, changing bit depth & sample rates can get pretty gnarly sounding.

Yeah, Win-Amp is a fun player. I used it when it first came out, actually packaging it with a job I did. I actually contacted the company (before it was sold) and asked for the permission to bundle it with the 70 hours of Ayn Rand interviews all delivered at 16-bit, mono, 11.5kHz sampling. All on a single CD back in 1996. Now you're thinking, "11.5kHz sampling?" Yup, gives you response to 5kHz like AM radio. Coming from crappy archives of all sorts, that really cleaned up a lot by limiting the bandwidth that way. Not something I recommend for music however. Unless you like AM radio sound? Then you can sample back up to 44.1kHz. Response would still be limited to 5kHz because of the early sampling rate.

Talk talk talk. That's all I do.
Ms. Remy Ann David

When you said "Now you're thinking" I was actually thinking about 70 hours of speech from the writer of Atlas Shrugged, the worlds longest novel in a European language.

What I was thinking was rude.

Space,

I went to follow your advice and export all formats from Sonar 6 LE...
The license for converting mp3s that came with the software that came with my hardware which I paid cash for was only for 3 months...
What gets me down is I've never had an issue like this with pirated software.

Converting to mp3 is overrated, that is why you pay for an additional piece of software.

Space wrote: Converting to mp3 is overrated, that is why you pay for an additional piece of software.

Damn, that was fast. I know people who can be in the room and take longer to reply.

I agree with your sentiments however, if my tracks aren't Ipuke compatible my potential audience is reduced.

Doesn't Ipuke or Windows media player convert to mp3?

It isn't that difficult is it?

I suppose things are only as difficult as you make them.

I have been told I can make things rather difficult.

Honestly, if you can't figure out how to make an MP3, you are in the wrong forum.

Also, these forums are called "PRO Audio Forums". Not tweedle cuss dee and tweedle cuss dumb Audio Forums.

(don't make me have to work)
Mod.

Hmmm. What an informative post.
The PRO stands for prolapse doesn't it?
Help me be PROLAPSED like you VonRock, I want to be like you. Oh yeah...

I'm glad that you are striving to be somebody other than who you are. Check your PM.

... and PLEASE quit posting 5 or 6 irrelevant posts per day all over these forums that have little or nothing to do with PRO Audio.

Thanks in advance.

Greener- Do you have any idea what a grotesque thing you are talking about? I suppose you think it is cute. As some one who grew up on a farm and has first hand experience trying (usually failing) to save the lives of animals with prolapsed organs my guess is that you don't have similar experience. It is a bloody, hideous job. I really suggest that you keep your hands off the keys if you don't have anything to say.

I'm not striving to be someone else, just a better version of me.
cuss you, VonRock, for not helping.

(man I hate editing posts)
mod

Look kid, if you want to tell me to bird Off, I'd recommend taking it to PM, as I'm sure most of the good people here are tired of all the drama. Especially in the Mastering Forum, as these guys couldn't care less that some punk kid can't figure out how to make an MP3 or figure out how to use his entry level software properly.

I've asked you to quit posting irrelevant doo that wastes people's time and brings down the credibility of the site. I've done it publicly and in a private message. Now, you don't think that I'm trying to help you, but I am. Obviously, your parents can't be around all the time to keep you in line, so sometimes other people need to step up. What's that saying? It takes a village to raise a child.

And so on that note, here is some advise from somebody who is just trying to help you out. Even though you have an aversion to iTunes, it is free (that doesn't mean you need to steal it, they give it away for free) and gives you the ability to export to many different formats, with numerous options to do so. You don't have to use it for any other purpose.

And while I'm in such a generous mood with the free advise, I'd recommend keeping comments like this one to yourself;

Greener wrote:
What gets me down is I've never had an issue like this with pirated software.

as most professional adults don't like thieves very much.

I am not a thief. I paid for my software, and if I had of stolen it, I wouldn't have this issue.

And when you say you are helping me, telling me to go away isn't help.
I will say this to you because I feel you may be unable to come to this conclusion by yourself.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ WHAT I WRITE.

Now, seeing as we have cleared up this little mess. Just to round off the thread from start to finish.

If I export wavs from Sonar in 16bit to start with I get none of the issues I was having during editing and "mastering".

Thanks all around to the people who helped me.

I don't mind a little debate. But can we leave out the cuss words. I hate editing posts. I'm going to start making up words if I have to edit any more. I just noticed the cuss words, sorry to all the sensitive people out there that read them.

I think they both should go stand in a bass trapless corner...

And have an FM radio played at them with distorted bass and flat high end?

RemyRAD wrote: That's why I keep telling people to stick to 16 bit! You get 96 DB of dynamic range & processing. If you can't stay within a 96 DB range, then you should look for another job? All of us professionals only had 16 bit for the past 25 years.

Remy....this may be a dumb question. -i don't know.....but, if you record everything in 16 bit to start with, do you dither at the end or not? -would dithering a 16 bit to a 16 bit still have any purpose? -does the noise shaping still help out with getting the most frequency out of the audio.....or do i still need to learn alot more about what dithering does???i'm just trying not to get too confused here.
thanks
-jordan

DAWs will have internal processing ranging from 24bit to 64bit, floating, fixed etc... so even if you record at 16 bit and do anything to the audio, the word length will change and the audio must be dithered back to 16 bit if you are going to put it on CD.

thanks michael. -you seem to know what you're talkin about with this stuff. thanks for taking the time to answer my uneducated questions. it's really helping me.

In addition, if you have an AD converter , you may not need to use a plugin for dithering. Also there is no point in dithering if all you do to the file is editing. Fades however - would require it.

thanks music_guy......now, i don't mean to keep this dithering debate going, but.....i'm interested in why you are saying that fades in a song would require dithering the track.....while editing a 24 or 32 bit before converting to 16 would not require a dither....?

A/D converters eliminate the need for dithering????? how? :?

i've read what everybody has had to say about this subject....and i think i would now dither everytime i convert a finished mixdown.... why do you think this is unneccesary?

Can you tell the difference when you dither or not?

I can only really tell the difference when I've already created a massive amount of digital noise/distortion by doing retarded sample rate conversions.

jordy wrote: A/D converters eliminate the need for dithering????? how? :?

Many converters will dither on the fly if you capture in 16-bit. I don't know too many people who do this, but it's an available option.