What mics do you have?

Well, I have about 15 mic's maybe.

Most of them being just the basic mic's. Nothing cheap though.

Just your typical SM57, SM58, Audix D series. I have Studio Projects C4, and 3 or 4 other condensor mic's.

I plan to get a U87 in the future. But I was looking to dump some money on a vocal pre, because the last few acts I have recorded... The vocals were not as lush as they should be.

My API 3124 is just too fast and quick for vocals, for "my" taste. And my Great River is SWEET as all, but it's not the best vocal pre "ever made".

I want to improve my vocal chain with a preamp first, then get "whatever" mic to compliment it in a few months, when I got some serious cash to throw down on it.

The mic would be the first thing I would change. I recently got 2 Earthworks QTC50's, and I can not believe the difference. Upgrade your mic first, if you want dramatic improvements.

Really?

FWIW-alot of my recordings are in small clubs. What's mic's are gonna be worth the money?

I enjoy rock and metal music. And $2500 is what I am working with now.

IMHO:
Above Average:
-Soundelux 251
-brauner VM1
-Earthworks QTC Series
-AKG C12 (Best for Female vocals)
-Neumann U87
-Neumann TLM 103 (Not bad at all for the price)
-Schoeps CCM Series
-AKG 414414 B-ULS

Not Bad:
-ADK Hamburg Edition
(I have heard one that was nice on a male voice)
-Blue-baby bottle
-Shure KSM44/SL
-Apex 460 if you spend a bit to upgrade the capsule, transformer and tube.

I am guessing from that list that a Neumann U87 would be my pick.

But will it sound "just as good" going through my API or Great River pre's? Instead of a Vipre?

I also do some live recordings. Just small clubs. But I wasn't sure if a U87 would be good for live use or not? :?

With a willingness to drop that kind of scratch, any local music store worth its salt should allow you to audition various mics.

Attempting to make a decision based on the written word is ... well, pointless. Mics, mic pres, and the sound source intended all have a unique relationship between each other that cannot be conveyed via a bbs.

It has to be heard ... live. It's THE ONLY way to know what works and what doesn't.

The music store ... if it's a larger style store, which most are these days to compete, should have a recording setup on hand.

Call ahead, let them know what you want to do, and then book a time block to audition. Plan on a hour or so.

If they don't have what you have in stock, bring some of your favorite mics, and your own mic pres.

Play your mics through the various mic pres that they may have in stock. Try various styles of mic pres to check the tone of the pre.

Take store mics and play them through your pres.

Take store mics and play them through store pres.

Record everything -- noting what mic and what pre are being tested ... prior to singing through the combination as your test.

Ask the store rep to burn your session onto a dvd or multiple CDs (bring your own media ... but they should be able to do so).

Then take the recording home and listen repeatedly to it.

Eventually, one of the combinations will start to stand out as the best pairings for your specific sound source.

THAT'S the one to buy.

Trying to solve this via a bbs ... well, it's a shot in the dark, and you'll likely wind up with something less than perfect that you'll only have to sell later for less than you paid for it.

Good luck!

Best,

Kev-

After surfing the net for about a week now.

I still do not know "what" piece of gear will bring the most improvment to my vocal tracks. :?

Some guys say a Neve 1272
Some guys say a Urei 1176
Others say a LA-2A
I'm thinking maybe a Sebatron, or a Millennia STT-1, or a Manley Voxbox, or a GT Vipre, or a .......or a.........or a...........

Sheeeeeesh :?

Maybe all I need is a U87 after all. :lol:

you already have some great pre's, time for a nice mic

ever thought about a ribbon mic.
http://proaudiomatrix.com/category/mics/

I'm naive to your plight. However, Kev seems to have your solution. Trust your own ears. I will be doing exactly what he suggested some time soon.

Blue microphones makes a GREAT mono preamp called the Robbie for about $990. It is the quietest tube pre amp I have ever heard and it has no character whatsoever. What you put into it it comes out amplified. It is a very good vocal mic preamp and we use ours every week for a syndicated radio show. My current favorite microphone is a BLUE BIRD from, Blue microphones CCLI and it makes our female announcer sound GREAT!. I also like the RODE NTK http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=NTK which we have used for other announcer's with excellent results. Since microphones are very personal I would suggest what others have suggested and go to a store and audition some microphones where you can compare them side by side. You may find that the Neumann is not your cup of tea but only YOUR EARS will tell you this. Also make sure you get a good pop filter (I don't like the metal screens but you may) and make sure you listen to the microphone with and without the pop filter as you may want to use the microphone naked when recording some acoustic instrument.

Best of luck and let us know what you finally decide.

Some good advice so far.

Tom - something interesting - the Robbie is discontinued. If you can find a GC that has one, you can get it for around $350!!!

Colbert -
I know you seem a little set on the U87. I would advise against that. While it is a GREAT mic, it's NOT the mic you want if it's your "main" vocal mic. The U87 has a VERY distinct sound. With the right vocalist, it's impossible to beat. With the wrong singer, you'll want to hang yourself with your mic cables. The problem is, IME, it only works with about 30% of the singers in front of it.

I do also like ribbons, but I rarely find that I dig the sound of a ribbon on studio vocals without some cajoling. And since I don't EVER like to cajole anything other than mic placement and type or mic pre, I can't genuinely recommend them for most vocal applications. (Operatic soprano...PERFECT. Screamo rock, country or just about any other kind of studio vox, nope. If you don't mind screwing with the EQ a lot, you can get a VERY good sound out of a ribbon on vox. Think about a 7-10 dB boost in the upper frequencies depending upon the ribbon.)

My favorite vocal combo came from the following combination -
Langevin DVC
Soundelux U195

The Soundelux has a full glorious sound without any of the upper end hype associated with most studio LDCs.

The fat switch on it makes it THE PERFECT kick drum mic.

In combination with the Langevin (a HUGE sounding pre with a GREAT EQ section) there isn't a vocal on the planet you can't get a great sound on!

IMHO, I would take that moderately priced combo over any Neve/API/Neumann combo on the planet.

Of course if you want to spend more money, Soundelux makes a lot more pricey mics, all of which are amazing.

Good luck!

Jeremy

Now I'm completely confused. :?

Guess I'll keep reading....

No, No.....No need for that. Jeremy has it basically nailed for your budget. A Langevin DVC is ,perhaps, one of the least talked about mic pres in this price range yet is one of the best. The Soundelux is a GREAT mic and is untouchable in its price range. If you want to look used and want an ever so slight upgrade for around the same cash then a Soundelux U95 might be found...But, the point is, this combination of mic and pre , in this case, proves to be one of the best for a huge range of vocals. I will say that my older U87 is a bit better, but only slightly...mostly because of the patterns and the fact that the older ones dont exhibit the high-end boost the newer ones seem to.

$2500 easily gets you a DVC and a U195 with some change.

Cucco,

The Robbie is still around CCLI and they have just added a shelf adapter for it. Not sure where you are getting your informaiton from....

I figure eqing a ribbon is often a given, and it usually works out quite well. I'm happy with my R84 on vocals.

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: Cucco,

The Robbie is still around CCLI and they have just added a shelf adapter for it. Not sure where you are getting your informaiton from....

I received the information from two different authorized dealers of Blue gear including Guitar Center right before I bought 2 of them for $650 (for the pair).

ericzang wrote: I figure eqing a ribbon is often a given, and it usually works out quite well. I'm happy with my R84 on vocals.

Agreed -

The R84 is a great choice. Lesser ribbons need not apply though.

StevenColbert wrote:
My API 3124 is just too fast and quick for vocals, for "my" taste. And my Great River is SWEET as all, but it's not the best vocal pre "ever made".

Dude, get a decent mic first...then, you will know how your API sounds...then, if you want color or presence or whatever, get a nice compressor...and finally, lear how to treat the vocal just in the way you want it...let me tell that "your" taste gonna change once you work hard to get a great sound...the devices dont do the magic...you do... :wink:

my 0.2 cents...

Cool. Yeah it does sound like a new mic or two might be a better choice than "whatever".

Right now I'm trying to decide between one of three things.

a) Empirical Labs Distressor
b) Sebatron Thorax
c) Eventide 2016

And I'll get to those mic's next month. I want to blow this $2000 on one of the three real bad.

Then start reading up on microphones after that.

Yui don't play fair because your not comparing things of the same catagory.

While the distressor is a great unit and now an industry standard, and the 2016 is a great old favorite reverb of yester year, of those three the Thorax is most flexable and useful as it is more of a channel strip. So which to choose should be based on what gear you already have and what you really need.

AudioGaff wrote: Yui don't play fair because your not comparing things of the same catagory.

While the distressor is a great unit and now an industry standard, and the 2016 is a great old favorite reverb of yester year, of those three the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://sebatron.com/"]Thorax[/]="http://sebatron.com/"]Thorax[/] is most flexable and useful as it is more of a channel strip. So which to choose should be based on what gear you already have and what you really need.

Yep............... your right.

I know.... here's the deal. I got $2000 thrown at me last week for something I never knew I was getting anything for.

So now I'm like, "spend it... spend it now". Before it all slowly disappears and I have next to nothing left........AND no new gear.

The last 2 years have been really GREAT gear years for me. But this year has been ALOT different. This would be my first new piece of gear this year. :(

I had the phone in my hand to order the Sebatron Thorax today. Then I answered some of the post on here and elsewhere, and waited too late to call SoundPure dot com.

I guess I should apologize......?

I was flipping out when I got the check last Thursday. I was not prepared for this, and now I'm geared up, for some new gear.

Get it... "geared up" 8)

StevenColbert wrote: Really?

FWIW-alot of my recordings are in small clubs. What's mic's are gonna be worth the money?

I enjoy rock and metal music. And $2500 is what I am working with now.

One of the better "live" recording mics is the Electro-Voice RE410 condenser mic. And for a little more cash, Neumann KMS105. Both will provide better results than the typical live mics, and still be way under your budget.

I wouldn't advise using a LDC mic on stage without GOBOs, and/or other types of sound control, plus a security guard for its safety!

Best bang for the buck for preamps and/or compressors is still the FMR Audio gear. The RNLA and the RNC are praised far and wide to be the best compressors under two grand. I haven't heard their pre, but it should also be worth much more than what it costs, and also be better than the pres most live consoles come with.

Best bet is to try before you buy, and let your ears decide.

So I bought a Sebatron Thorax today.

This is the 1st piece of my new vocal chain.

Thanks for all the help on here guys!

I can't wait until the Seb gets to my house next week.

Now... time for me to start a thread about mic's!

Look for a U87, make sure its not been dropped or abused then send it to Klaus Heyne and have him tweak it beyond factory specs and enjoy!

Oh, another great thing about Neumann mics is that they keep their value especially if they've been to Tony Merrill (Stephen Paul Audio) or Klaus for servicing and or cleaning...

I have read all sorts of good stuff about the Neumann U87's.

However, the Soundelux U195 gets "just as good" reviews as the U87.

So I might get the U195 first. Along with a Shure SM7 and/or a KSM44.

Ive had, used and compared both side by side before and the 195 is close to the 87 but with a bit more top end. Both are great mics and versatile..
Enjoy..

8)

StevenColbert wrote: I have read all sorts of good stuff about the Neumann U87's.

However, the Soundelux U195 gets "just as good" reviews as the U87.

So I might get the U195 first. Along with a Shure SM7 and/or a KSM44.

Thanks man!

As one last "kick" for the Neumann mics, the KMS105 is voiced to sound much like the 87. Not sure what the Soundelux U95 costs, but it should be close to the KMS105... FWIW

Get a Shure SM7 and an Oktavamod 219. And throw the rest of your mics (except the 57) in the toilet.

Enjoy the Sebatron...although you really had no immediate need for a pre with the GR unit. Whatever. I love my Seb...

elcubo wrote: [quote=StevenColbert]
My API 3124 is just too fast and quick for vocals, for "my" taste. And my Great River is SWEET as all, but it's not the best vocal pre "ever made".

Dude, get a decent mic first...then, you will know how your API sounds...then, if you want color or presence or whatever, get a nice compressor...and finally, lear how to treat the vocal just in the way you want it...let me tell that "your" taste gonna change once you work hard to get a great sound...the devices dont do the magic...you do... :wink:

my 0.2 cents...

+1000

FYI: Soundelux is no longer in business? Check out Bock Audio 195

Honestly if you want to get a great vocal sound you need 4 things -

1. Proper isolation. Room bleed can ruin vocals period.

2. A decent microphone (usualy a ribbon mic or large diphram)

3. Good preamps. you dont have to spend thousands on these, most small "recording consoles" have great pre's, expensive pres sound good of course but arent always needed to get great takes

4. A good compressor. This is I think the most important thing that I think not to many touch on in this topic. It doesnt have to be a brilliant piece of outboard gear either. I usualy dont compress on the way in. I rarely even compress using outboard gear. If you are using a DAW there alot of cheap but fabulous compressor plug-ins availalble.

Thats my 2 cents. Best of luck.