Good monitors and well treated room will help at 200 %.

Agreed on the room and monitors. I will help to not use your mixdown monitors or the same room. I would also look into samplitude, a good outboard compressor + EQ and have a mastering engineer do one track for free..as guidance.

I think we're still having a communication problem here due to the differences in our languages. I think I remember you from a previous posting?

Taking some of your funds and utilizing them to create a second mastering control room would be beneficial as indicated by others. That means different monitor speakers and a different listening environment.

As far as additional outboard mastering equipment is concerned, Manley makes some very nice products and are manufactured to very high quality specifications i.e. not cheap. So a nice Manley compressor/limiter along with a good Manley equalizer would make for a good start.

If creating a secondary room is not an option and you must use your only control room may I suggest perhaps a suite of plug-ins for your ProTools system? Again as I have recommended in the past an Italian company by the name of I. K. multimedia has a product called T-Racks. It is available for PC or Macintosh, standalone software for 2 track mastering or a plug-in to be used with ProTools. Most of the real mastering engineers on this forum do not recommend this product as they feel it is substandard to use for their clientele (I'm not sure how many Pakistani recordings they have mastered). I do not necessarily agree with them as, when used properly, it is an effective tool that would probably provide for you what you need for the massive expenditure of $399 US (i.e. it's an incredible bargain). Now don't get me wrong, this product comes with a set of presets that I personally do not like much at all as I feel it makes everything "too overblown" which would detract from your mixes. I prefer to use the software as I would use my hardware and it gives me what I want, the way I want it. I feel it is worth the investment for you as you can then devote your other resources (money) to other applications such as improving your room acoustics, purchasing more microphones, additional monitors, etc..

Hope this helps?
Ms. Remy Ann David

You are almost in budget range of the TC6000. This will get your mixes loud as nuts. Now making them sound good.......I guess that isn't what you are asking but maybe should look into.

Monitors

Why does everyone mention "good monitors" but no one ever mentions a good D/A?

Even Genelecs wont do you any good at all without a good D/A, right?

Of course, this is assuming that you are coming from a digital source.

Everyone mentions good monitors because this tends to be the weakest link in the chain. You first need good monitors to be able to tell how well a good D/A is performing.

I don't mean to sound jaded, but I think the premise of the question is silly - Sheer volume doesn't come from mastering tools - $6,000, $60,000 or $6,000,000.

It comes from a MIX that can HANDLE sheer volume.

Obviously, in the *quest* for that volume, some tools are going to work better than others - But it's the mix that will ultimately dictate the level that it wants to be at.

I'll give you one hint - Other than the monitors (which I agree with all the way to my very soul).

You want your mixes to handle "sheer volume" with some class? Then KEEP SOME HEADROOM from the very start. Don't hoard bits and try to keep every single signal up in the red... Don't record hot. Don't mix hot. Keep your dynamics intact and a good amount of heardoom everywhere you can throughout the entire process.

Almost everyone uses up their headroom in the mastering stage - While it sucks, and it flies in the face of why digital audio was developed in the first place, if you're going to use up all your headroom, do it ONCE. LAST.

The irony is that the people who don't even give a second thought to the "final volume in the end" normally GET the final volume in the end - They're usually the ones that just "get a decent level" and roll with it. They're also the ones that are using their gear at the levels it was designed to work at -- 0dBVU and -0dBFS are not the same. If people stopped try to hover around -0dBFS and started hovering around -14dBFS (basically 0dBVU - The "sweet spot" - the "nominal level" - the place where everything is designed to be most efficient) the quality of their mixes might change so dramatically, they wouldn't know themselves anymore.

Well said John! 8-)

Re: Monitors

covenant66 wrote: Why does everyone mention "good monitors" but no one ever mentions a good D/A?

Even Genelecs wont do you any good at all without a good D/A, right?

Of course, this is assuming that you are coming from a digital source.

First of all, bad example. Genelecs aren't typically good mastering monitors.

Second of all, even moderate DAs are adequate at portraying an accurate picture (err, sound) while moderate monitors simply won't get you there. I could easily master an album with a Rotel Amplifier ($1000) and a pair of B&W 804's (<$4000) with a Flying Cow converter. However, even with a Lavry Gold or DCS, feeding through a Sony receiver into Bose speakers, I couldn't make Tierney Sutton sound good!

Monitors and room treatment are the second most important in any mastering chain.

The DA ain't first.

J.

(PS - the ears are first...)

Well explained John,the other day I was re-mastering some old cassette tape achives and the band being an old thrash metal band,the mixes were so energetic they actually sounded better hovering around -11 to -10 with slight peaks to -9 and it sounded bloody excellent,but as John said every mix ,band ,and record contains its own dynamic content. Most mixes will be destroyed at the levels I just mentioned but this one worked and rocks but thats the hardest I've ever pushed anything.

Re: Monitors

Cucco wrote: [quote=covenant66]

Second of all, even moderate DAs are adequate at portraying an accurate picture (err, sound) while moderate monitors simply won't get you there. I could easily master an album with a Rotel Amplifier ($1000) and a pair of B&W 804's (<$4000) with a Flying Cow converter. However, even with a Lavry Gold or DCS, feeding through a Sony receiver into Bose speakers, I couldn't make Tierney Sutton sound good!

The DA ain't first.

First, I didn't say that the DA was first, only that it is never mentioned, and should be.

Second of all, I don't think a M-Audio Flying Cow ($285) is the DA equivalent of a (conumser) Sony receiver and Bose speakers, they're not even real monitors.

Now lets try actually being equitable... With your example, it'd be more like plugging the Rotel and B&W 804's into a (consumer) soundblaster audigy card. Let's see how great those masters sound with that setup!!

Anyways, just trying to illustrate the point that it's more than just monitors, a good monitoring system needs a good DA.

Re: Monitors

covenant66 wrote:
First, I didn't say that the DA was first, only that it is never mentioned, and should be.

Second of all, I don't think a M-Audio Flying Cow ($285) is the DA equivalent of a (conumser) Sony receiver and Bose speakers, they're not even real monitors.

Now lets try actually being equitable... With your example, it'd be more like plugging the Rotel and B&W 804's into a (consumer) soundblaster audigy card. Let's see how great those masters sound with that setup!!

Anyways, just trying to illustrate the point that it's more than just monitors, a good monitoring system needs a good DA.

But see, I vehemently disagree.

The DA in a sony receiver is just fine. If it's the only DA you have, it's good enough. You can certainly do just fine with it.

I'm willing to venture a guess (a rather educated one at that) that the Rotel into the B&W's fed by an Audigy would sound just fine. In fact, it would sound damn good.

As for monitoring, the DA is an important piece, but it takes a distant back seat to:

The room
The speakers
The Amplifier
The interconnects
The listener

Where AD and DA are important particularly is if you're going in and out of analog and digital to do your effects.

Granted, a good DA is the icing on an already sweet cake, the cake can easily stand on its own without the assistance of icing and still be a good cake... (carrying the analogy to its utmost conclusion).

J.

See, this is where mastering takes a turn.

This is what most people miss.

This is where mastering for money and mastering for a hobby take different roads.

If you can't hear (good room, good monitors), then nothing else in your chain is going to matter much.

I would take a good room and good monitors and a mackie mixer over great outboard and a bad room and bad monitors.

As a rule (MY rule), your monitor chain should be 3 times more expensive than any single piece of equipment you have. If you have a $3000 compressor, then your monitor setup should be in the $9000 range. If you have $9000 in a monitor setup, then you should have about $18,000 in room treatment (building something that sounds good). This allows you to get the most out of your outboard gear.

Let me put it another way by using an analogy. What good is it to use a high definition camera and put a standard definition lens on it? The lens can only resolve to a certain point, so you aren't actually utilizing the full capacity of the pickup device. You don't even know what's missing until you slap on a high definition lens. That is why it costs $30,000 for a lens and the camera costs $5000.

Improve your lens (monitor chain) and you will get more out of your system.

hi

Michael, What do you think about Dynaudio BM6s?
BTW.... visiting Brazil frequentlyl?
Nice thursday

Should be in Brazil in may, weeeee.