I have absolutely no idea. The original ADR F-760N were 'console' units, and really had a very nice, sweet tone and texture to the them. The later versions seemed a bit more 'aggressive' sounding to me.

Ain't never heard a Helios 760, so I have no point of reference.

I have 2 Helios 760 and I believe that ADR designed those units (not sure though). although "the moderator" said to me in an earlier post that the ADR stuff had nothing,nada,zilch to do with a Helios. now he says he's never touched a Helios 760! so then how the fuck would he know?
:D
Ain't never heard a Helios 760, so I have no point of reference.
Ever listen to Zeppelin 4? Stones?
;)

I don't remember the number but I used to use a compressor from a Helios console in the mid '70s that was made by ADR.

Well Mike...I guess you got me there. Aren't you a clever one. I have spent many hours with ADR F 760-N's, and if Bob O. says the Helios was made by ADR, then I guess I have indeed played with the units, and rendered my opinion above.

As for having heard Zeppelin or the Stones, I'd have to say yes, but what does that have to do with anything. I was Jimmy Miller's engineer for a few years [if you read the credits on some of those late 60's early 70's Stones, or Blind Faith, or Traffic records you might be able to figure out who that was], I'm quite familiar with the production aspects of the RS records from that period.

I used to own the desk from Olympic, which was the desk on which Beggar's Banquet and Let It Bleed were made...rumor has it that Led Zeppelin II was mixed on it. It didn't have any compressors, nor was it a 'Helios' desk , it was an 'Olympic Sound Studios' desk, Helios was formed by Richard Sweatenham and friends subsequent to that particular desk.

I also spent a few years working for an artist who is known to have 'recaptured' many of those "old" sounds. I spent a significant amount of time hunting for a Helios desk for him to purchase [as well as a rather large variety of other 'old and cool' tools]. During that process, I probably ran into about 9 or 10 of the things, none of which had 'on board compression', yet almost all of them had different equalizers and routing. The two that were closest to being the same were the one I owned from Olympic, and the one in the Rolling Stones mobile unit, the main difference was the 'RSMU' desk had the most arcane "patch panel" known to man...which according to Jimmy Miller was a nightmare from the first day forward.

During that same period I met many if not most of the folks who made the recordings from that period. I learned quite a bit from them on a 'technique' level, as the hardware is really rather irrelevant if your technique sucks. The hardware is there to make things easier if you have technique, not to replace technique.

Glynn Johns [who claims to have been a principle of Helios, and with all his other accomplishments, I don't doubt it for a moment] is offering his desk for sale, it has 1176's and LA-2A's built right into the desk, but no 760's.

Now, that kinda makes me wonder at which point Helios began to install 760's, and why. If they are indeed the ADR units, then the size and shape would have been more than appropriate for installation in a Helios desk [from what I understand, the units were origianlly build for ADR desks, hence the shape and size], but when did they install them in Helios desks, and which desks had them?

It's really nice to see your love for the classic equipment. There was an awful 12-15 year period where the majority of the new equipment manufactured was almost all shit, and many of the classics were disposed of for the installation of "newer" and "better" [it was modern solid state, therefor more reliable, therefor considered better] equipment.

The fact of the matter is that unless you have all the manuals, and are performing regular maintenance, you have a little less of an idea of what that equipment really sounds like than I have of why you insist on being such a prick.

Do us all a favor, take a fucking valium [or 3], and give us a break. It's great that you seem to love your T'Funk and Helios stuff. Bully for you. There are certain bits of "old stuff" that I too find invaluable tools, but on occassion, keeping an open mind can often lead to a better product.

I personally don't really give a flying fuck what you do, when you do it, nor with whom you do it...but this 2 dimensional "my old shit is the only stuff that's any good" crap is wearing pretty thin. If you really start to learn the history of this stuff rather than the boring and blind repetition of "old is better", then I have a feeling you might get a better handle on what is really cool [and why it's cool], rather than parroting what some 'vintage gear' dealer told you.

As long as I'm wasting my time and making suggestions to you, may I suggest that you try a couple of things that have been made subsequent to the Reagan administration.

You seem to have a bias against Manley gear [and frankly, there are units like the Vari-Mu, where I'm in solid agreement with you], so perhaps you might want to avoid some of the units in that particular line ...but there really have been some fabulous strides made in equipment design and manufacture since the mid-70's.

I frankly don't give a fuck what you think. It's packaged so poorly that it's really not even amusing anymore. What I do find funny, is that I've run into more than a few of your clients and co-workers over the years [I do a bit of work in Chicago, and you know how people love to talk]. Many seem to be of the opinion that you have way more attitude than aptitude, perhaps you may want to work that, perhaps not.

Either way, if you'd like to be welcome to hang out here, learn a new song, or at least learn to sing the old one in a manner that presents new information.

I don't care if that information is 'historical' or 'technical' or the discussion of a technique that employs your great old tools...but this endless drone about how great your old shit is, is frankly boring the snot out of me. I don't do this to be bored, I do this to have a bit of fun, and to learn things. If you really want to continue to make this adversarial, I suggest you do it privately.

We bought the Helios input module and compressor from Tony ? who was the Helios and Tannoy rep in LA during the mid '70s. They were his demo units.

The compresser didn't appear to be as well made as the input module which was utterly amazing sounding and looking with its styrene caps, etc. The only thing I ever compared it to that was clearly better was an "audiophiled out" Deane Jensen twin servo which I'm not sure anything has really beat yet.

I've seen a Helios desk with a comp that just said 760 and a seemingly later one that actually said ADR 760 but I have no idea if the electronics are the same, although they looked the same and had the same controls. The 760 that didn't say ADR on it had more attack settings though. A couple people restarted Helios with Dick Sweetham's blessing and they seem to have a lot of older info. They helped me with a old module I had.

Now, that kinda makes me wonder at which point Helios began to install 760's, and why. If they are indeed the ADR units, then the size and shape would have been more than appropriate for installation in a Helios desk [from what I understand, the units were origianlly build for ADR desks, hence the shape and size], but when did they install them in Helios desks, and which desks had them?
I dunno when. I got a 16 ch. console from a radio joint in Canada. it's got 2 760's in it. I have no paperwork for this thing so who knows when it was installed. (Crispin is looking for through the archives to see if he can find out when Dick installed it).
The fact of the matter is that unless you have all the manuals, and are performing regular maintenance, you have a little less of an idea of what that equipment really sounds like
I'm figuing out my own techniques, not trying to emulate what "Jimmy Joe" did in 1975. ;)
Do us all a favor, take a fucking valium [or 3]
Can you get any? My Texas connection is all gone. used to get them by the thousands!. 3 on an empty stomach with a few beers is the ticket. ;)
my old shit is the only stuff that's any good ;)

Originally posted by miketholen:
Then again the 827 sounds way steril compared to the J37., yes were getting even older now, and does it sound better than today's machines? I think it does. ;)

Yep, but have you heard an 827 w/2" 8-track heads? Have you heard an 800 w/2" 8-track heads? Have you heard them at 7.5 or 15 ips? I have, along with J-37's [fully, and properly restored J-37's]...the 2" 8's ate it for breakfast and shit it out before lunch, especially at 7.5ips.

BTW, the J-37 runs AC motors, so if you'd ever really like to hear one of those things sing, try a 220v/50Hz model with 220v/60Hz power sometime . It's really the shit.

You get about 75% of the low end advantages of 15ips, and almost 75% of the noise advantages of 30ips. And yeah...I've heard/done that little trick too.

the J-37 runs AC motors, so if you'd ever really like to hear one of those things sing, try a 220v/50Hz model with 220v/60Hz power sometime . It's really the shit.

Yep, both machines run that way. :D

Haven't been blessed by a 2" 8 though.
I would love to work with something like that.
MB's productions sound flippin' insane with it though. :eek: