Oh, also...Just went through some stuff I had stored in my basement and found (2) 2ch Fostex 3070 Compressor/Limitors. I know, they are old and probably decent at best, but I have them so figure I might as well put them to use. What do you suggest I do with these things?

Depends... What other comps you got?

None

In that case, I'd use em' as your 2-bus limiter until you can snag a few more.

You wanna save your speakers and amps. Set em' for like +5 db on the threshold, FAST attack, FAST release and Infinite compression. That's at least a starting point. You may wanna drop the threshold a bit if you don't have extra cash on hand for replacement cones.

That way, when you start to approach the "no go" zone of blowing stuff up, you have a safety valve that will hopefully keep you from turning drivers into little shards of paper.

WTH?? I posted earlier and it didnt take.

Really, the Fostex stuff is all over the map as far as what it will do well. Fortunately for you, the 3070 comp/lim is a very unknown and underrated box. A little noisy but this is live sound so it wont stop the show.

I agree, put it across the mains.

Now if I could only find one of those Fostex mics......seriously.

Yo DD...

You want I should go out in the yard behind the mooch pooch and wrap sumpin' up that might at least look like a Fostex mic...

Should I should send it Express Mail or UPS ground? :-?

(I KEEEED! I KEEEEED!) :)

I sold Fostex back in the early 80's when the 3070 would have been made. They're not a bad compressor. You should be able to make good use of them.

We still have 2 of the 3050 Digital Delays from that time period. Touted by Fostex then as 'the first digital delay', they have never given us any problems. They feature stupid RCA ins and outs, very limited high end (10k-12k tops), a little bit of hiss, but the modulation functions are pure magic - very tape like. These old 3050 delays are unlike anything else when you're getting the Led out. There are a couple settings that will make you wanna sing When the Levee Breaks, and Kashmir all day long.

I'm a bit unsure of how to correctly hook this up.....any help?

If you have Main Inserts:
- insert cable, connecting the send to the comp input, and the return to the output, one for the Left and one for the right (two cables).

If you have a separate amp, you could:
- rather than connect the main outs to the snake, connect them to the comp inputs and then the comp outputs to the snake; but this isn't ideal.

If you have a powered mixer:
- our desk has "Amp Inputs" and "Main Outs" so these could be used with 4 patch leads instead of 2 insert cables.

MadMax wrote: Yo DD...

You want I should go out in the yard behind the mooch pooch and wrap sumpin' up that might at least look like a Fostex mic...

Should I should send it Express Mail or UPS ground? :-?

(I KEEEED! I KEEEEED!) :)

Ahhhh yoo some funni guy.....

Yoo no wheech leetle brown mic I talkytalky....ah...

Codemonkey wrote: If you have Main Inserts:
- insert cable, connecting the send to the comp input, and the return to the output, one for the Left and one for the right (two cables).

If you have a separate amp, you could:
- rather than connect the main outs to the snake, connect them to the comp inputs and then the comp outputs to the snake; but this isn't ideal.

If you have a powered mixer:
- our desk has "Amp Inputs" and "Main Outs" so these could be used with 4 patch leads instead of 2 insert cables.

I'm not sure if my Yamaha MG166 has main inserts, however I do have a seperate amp for my tops....

Wasn't sure of what you had... looking it up now.

Going on the photo of the MG166c on Yamaha's site, it doesn't.

Ok.

So, normally, I run ONE main out to the crossover input, high out to the amp, then sub out to the amp. Where should I put the compressor in the chain? And just on the tops? Thats only one channel of the 4 I have?

OK I read some of the thread, trying to see what you're doing so far (with re: amps etc.). I'd do this -

If you're running in mono:
Instead of going from the Mixer Main Out to the Xover Input; go the Comp Input and from the Comp Output to the Xover Input.

If you're running in stereo:
Do that for both sides of the setup.

This setup will limit everything, tops and subs. If you place it between the Xover Hi Out and the Amp Input then you'll NOT limit the subs which could lead to bass spikes, defeating the purpose - to protect the speakers.

I see you "found (2) 2ch Fostex 3070 Compressor/Limitors." So this accounts for one of them, any plans for the other?

The MG166cx doesn't have inserts on the mains or subgroups. It looks like it has some sort of simple compressor on channels 1-6. The Fostex operate are nominal at -10dBV, so you won't want to put them inline with your mains. So maybe the best use of them would be inserting them into the 4 individual channels that would benefit from them most. (Lead Vocal / other vocals / kick drum / bass guitar / guitars / whatever else you want to get a handle on) It would give you a higher level of control than the "Comp" knob on the Yamaha. Or if you could assign those 4 things to channels 7 - 11/12, that would be even better.

Just a thought...

Thanks man, I'll have to get another cable...1/4"TRS-1/4" TRS I presume? Yeah, I'm running in mono

Nah, no plans for the other...really dont know what I should do with them.

Missed your post Dave....Yeah, I havent used the built in ones much, its just odd that its one single knob...However, I dont really understand why you say dont put them inline on the mains?

The Fostex devices work at -10 operating levels, but the mixer outputs are +4. This means that either the Fostex inputs will clip, or the compressor will kick in earlier than you think it's set to.

If you choose to use the inserts you'll need a specific insert cable. It's more of a Y-cable with TRS on the board end which splits into 2 TS at the compressor end. The insert TRS jack is both the send and the return. Usually it goes from the T tip to the compressor and the R ring comes back in from the device while they share a common shield/ground.

Ok.

Dave, by inserts you mean the individual channel inserts? I've got those cables left over from my recording gear so I'll try em out. What are normally the most necessary things to compress?

Depends a LOT on the performer.

I have 4 maybe 5 vocalists play on a Sunday morning so I struggle to keep them balanced without compression.

Whenever there's a bassist around, I reckon they could use some compression - but not necessarily.

You might want to compress the kick/snare to add more "consistent whumph" and less "errant clunks".

Alrighty, I havent had a chance to play with the compressors yet, perhaps today.

Ive spent the last few hours re-reading this whole thread and some others to kind of remind myself to put what I've learned into action, at every gig. So with that said, I have a few questions I'd like to bring back up real quick.

1. Dave- you mentioned your distro...just wondering where and how it plugs into.....and then you run everything directly from that right?

2. As for my power...I have the 2 15a power conditioners, I think we decided that its best (for me) to run one power conditioner into the other, then to a heavy duty extension cord then to the wall (if it doesnt reach)...and then run my sub amp to a heavy duty extension cord to the wall (if it doesnt reach)?

3. Alot of the times, it seems, with my faders at zero for a vocal mic (atleast at an acoustic gig-but others as well), that i have the gain turned all the way down. Are the pre amps just that good or what?

4. Lastly, do you think a dual 31 band EQ should be next on my list to buy? Also looking at possibly getting a SPL meter (what do you think?), some extra fuses (once I figure out what size I need), and FINALLY a receptacle tester!

1) My DIY distro panel could plug into a variety of 220v plugs and would give me 6 x 20-amp circuits for audio. (If plugged into a 60-amp 220v circuit) If you're working in venues that can accommodate big productions they will have one or more 220v plugs or 220v disconnect panel on or near the stage. Stagelights take a lot of juice and anyplace that's running serious bands will have to have 220v available. My dimmers had their own 220v distro as well, so if we had multiple 220v plugs, we used one for lights and one for sound. If there was just one 220v, that's where we would plug in the lights - freeing up all the other circuits on stage for sound. A distro is great, but I wouldn't recommend building or buying one until you have a solid understanding of basic electrical theory. ( Too often you have to improvise a connection. ) Do the places you work have 220v plugs on stage?

2) Theoretically 2 x 15-amp power conditioners running near capacity would be more than you should plug into a single circuit, but in practice you can probably get away with it. I'd rather run them into a heavy 2-box, at least that puts the strain on the 2-box rather than the power conditioner's breaker. Are you blowing breakers?

3) If your board is running everything at unity gain and you've got that much volume either your preamps ARE that good - or you're making up for lost volume somewhere downstream like at your crossover.

4) I think you're overdue for a dual 31-band EQ. I don't know how you've managed this long without an EQ to ring out the monitors. A decibel meter is an excellent investment. Extra fuses and a receptacle tester should definitely be part of your toolkit. All of those things will be money well spent.

Keep up the good work!

Dave

WHOA... RED LIGHT!!

Paging Dr DaveDog!

...................Paging Dr DaveDog!

Paging Dr DaveDog! You have a courtesy call in this thread.

Hawk's right... DON'T putz around too much more without basic electrical theory.

You don't have to be a Master/Journeyman Sparky to survive this. But if you don't at least understand the basic power connections, ground and Ohms Law, you will likely get hurt. (If you're really stoopid, or unlucky as hell, you CAN earn your Darwin Award.)

Just depends on whether you wanna earn that or not.

It ain't rocket surgery or like sandpapering a wildcats ass in a phone booth, but it can be damned close to it. Go down to your local library and snag a copy of the electrician's handbook...

and READ IT.

I know it's probably close to slow dancing with your aunt, but guess what?? It might save your ass.

You need to always respect the stuff. Make sure circuits are dead before you pick up a line. DOUBLE check.

When you work hot, ALWAYS have one hand in your pocket, or someone close that can knock you off the box. (More Darwin Awards are presented each year because of this than you can shake a stick at.)

Get a DVM, and get a Wiggie

Call a sparky or go to Home Repo and hang out with the guys in the electrical dept... but ONLY ask them about product. You find an electrical contractor or some old house wire sparky that's been doing this since Edison was a young man. Have them explain the workings of a breaker box and how to get it water tight.

Now build yourself a decent distro and be done with it. You'll learn a lot, and you'll be better off for it.

Oh... and don't worry, it won't be to code. There really ain't one in most states. They pretty much assume that if you blow it up, or burn it down... you DO have insurance.... or a home... and a car..... and maybe a Johnboat.... hopefully a decent trolling motor....

Say... you like to go fishin'?

I know a feller' that there trows a mean stick of dynamite! 8-) Wanna go!?!

This IS a can'o worms.

I cant teach electrical theory over the net in a few moments.

Let me say that 4milliamps across your heart will stop it beating or cause it to beat out of time effectively screwing up the synchronicity of the valves opening and closing....not a pretty picture.

There is a whole section in the Code about portable distribution. The kind that Carneys and circus's and Public Address owners use.

What you will NEED to know before you do ANYTHING is what you will find at the regular venues you intend to haunt.

If you are for hire in ANY place, you will need to provide a rider of YOUR requirements before accepting a job.

Dont know your requirements?

Its time you find out.

Theres a tag on the back of every piece of electronic gear made. It lists the voltage and the watts. Some list other things like the amps but we dont care about that for this exercise. The watts arent the output of an amp in watts but the drain required to operate the device at full power for one minute. If the amps ARE listed you can use that but you have to do one more step in the math department.

All of this info is also found in the owners manual.

Okay. Add all these watts numbers up. All of em in the rack, the board, the little lite, the tape recorder, the laptop...anything thats plugged into a set of receptacles fed from a common source and on the same circuit.

Got it?

Now divide by 120. Thats the amps you'll need for that circuit. If you used the amps rating from one of the tags instead of the watts, add it in now. More than 16? Thats more than a 20 amp circuit can be.

I know....You say, "Mr.Dog sir, how can i not use all 20 amps of the 20 amp circuit?"

Its the LAW Jr. You cannot load a circuit to more than 80% of its rating. "But WHY!!??"

Heat my young brother, heat.

Now lets lightly touch on things like phase. I'm not talking phase as in mics in or out, I'm talking electrical phase as in having two different phases on a stage full of equipment. I'm talking two different paths of potential. I'm talking dead guitar players. with their lips burnt to a mic and their skinny fingers wrapped around their favorite Tele plugged into their amp which they failed to tell you had a ground lift on its power cord.........

We're talking about niteclubs with inadequate power at the stage or stage power put in by the owners brother in law twice removed who used to be a telephone guy who knew a real electrician.....etc.

"Hey, I dont need to connect this green or bare wire anywhere do I???"

Electricians handbook. Really. Probably the best $60 you'll ever spend on your rig.

Later we'll discuss what you need for a universal distro and what makes a safe install.

Max said:

or like sandpapering a wildcats ass in a phone booth, but it can be damned close to it.

I know it's probably close to slow dancing with your aunt, but guess what??

and Dave said:

I'm talking dead guitar players. with their lips burnt to a mic and their skinny fingers wrapped around their favorite Tele plugged into their amp which they failed to tell you had a ground lift on its power cord.........

We all really need to go fishin' and swap stories over some Gentleman Jack....

Yer on Marine.

OK... then it's a date.

We got cat, rock fish, hogs and slabs here... EARLY Spring for slabs, and slap dab in the middle of nasty for rockies.

Figger' DD's got Steelies or Pink on the spring run...

Whatchu got up dat' way GIrine? You got brookies and brownies?

Its the Springers here. Spring Chinook. Fat with fins.

The silvers are happening now as well as the Steelhead.

And then theres the Redsides in the wild rivers. A red meated Rainbow with shoulders. They dont farm these. Lots of other options also.

And if ya want real fun theres the oversized sturgeon below Bonneville Dam.

Got an hour to kill? You only get to pet em and let em go...

I'm reading this thread and I'm scared because I know nothing of it. We went to another church with our "travelling" setup once, and I just plugged right in.
(I'm still alive, FYI)

Davedog, you say "divide by 120" is that always 120 or is it dependent on the voltage? Assuming 120...

Our mixer has a dual 500W amps so that would draw a little over 7A?

Add to that two PCs, with 250W and 350W PSUs and also 2 screens at about 100W each? Yikes. I count 16A at peak. Not that we ever reach that...

The 120v is relevant to US voltage. And to be clear it's not as much about watts of amplifier output - it's the wattage consumed to put out that 500w/ch (which is always higher)

It's watts/volts = amps

So for us in the US 1200W / 120V is 10A.

What's your voltage in Scotland 220v?

And so I doesn't seem that I'm suggesting Stealthy, or anybody else, tempt the grim reaper by building anything dodgy - I have from the beginning of this thread encouraged him to develop the necessary working knowledge of AC power and cautioned him against doing anything without professional training and supervision. He has a friend who's a certified electrician to help him out.

I'll make sure to add a strong warning to every post from now on.

A WORD OF WARNING TO ALL WHO FOLLOW!

You've all seem them break out the defibralator paddles on TV. The common misconception is that defibralators shock the heart to restart it. WRONG!!! It stops the heart, <> so the attending Doc or EMS can restart it in a more regular rhythm.

230V/50Hz. Plugs are commonly fused at 5A/13A
I thought it was 110V in the US :S (you guys obviously know better).

It's theoretically supposed to be 120v 60Hz, but seldom is that high. You are right it is often expressed as 110v. Typical real world reading might be 115 - 118v. You have to test it with a load to get an accurate reading.

So, if you're 230v .... every 230watts of consumption will be 1Amp

Your hypothetical 1800watt load @ 230v will be 7.83 (rounded up)

Around here it is mostly trout-brook, brown, cutthroat, lake, and rainbow. There are other lesser fish found occasionally. In the not too far distance there is some Salmon fishing in Idaho or the western edge of MT. Up north you get into pike and walleye and muskies. There is not much live bait fishing (hence the C4 or 12guage :-) ) but for the fly fisherman, it is heaven from here over to the Dawg's house. Y'all can fish, I'll drink whiskey and watch for bears.

Hawk-
1) No, most places around here dont have any 220v on stage.
2)No, not blowing any breakers. Just double checking!
4)I really could have used that EQ yesterday. I was running sound for a friends cancer benefit, it was outside under a shelter house. Directly behind the drummer was a 10ft long, from floor to ceiling stone wall with a fireplace. It wreaked havoc. I had to be real careful with the monitors feeding back.

I will figure out my requirements, and check out that handbook

By the way just an update since I've spoke a little about it in the past.

I'm officially in the midst of legitimizing my business. I've opened a dedicated business checking account, working on tax stuff, and have gotten an accountant to keep everything in line. She is also a supervisor at H&R Block, as well as a small business owner, so I think her wealth of knowledge will be of great help to me.

I can only fly under the radar for so long, and hopefully this decision will help me build up business and what not.

If anyone has any input regarding these things, please chime in.

stealthy wrote: I can only fly under the radar for so long, and hopefully this decision will help me build up business and what not.

If anyone has any input regarding these things, please chime in.

To avoid taxation is every American's duty, to evade taxation is illegal.

Save every single receipt to offset those earnings and start keeping a log of miles driven. That mileage will add up to a nice deduction. A reasonable fraction of your internet, phone, etc. can be business expenses.

There's something in the tax code to give small businesses incentives to re-invest their earnings called "Section 179 Depreciation". By using it I am able to "expense" a lot of the equipment purchases under Section 179 to offset the income. In the eyes of the bookkeeping world, your equipment will depreciate and de-value all the way to zero. Normally you can depreciate it over 10 yrs, 5 yrs, 3 yrs, whatever. Under Section 179, you can take all right away.

It's usefulness will depend on your income level. Have your accountant consider & explain whether it may benefit you. In December I do a quick run through of my income and expenses. Depending on the situation, sometimes I may need to buy some equipment under the Section 179 purchases before Dec. 31st to reduce or eliminate the tax due for that year. In other words, in certain cases, you can either spend the X number of dollars on a piece of equipment you can use, or hand X number of dollars over to Uncle Sam uncontested.

Since you've been investing pretty heavily this year, I'd say you picked a good time to get set-up with an accountant She should be able to point you in the right direction.

Good stuff Dave, I'll pass that on to her and see what she has to say about it. I know alot of stuff it dependent this year on my income that I will be claiming so I need to get that figured out first and weigh my options. Thanks!