What ever happened to someone playing an instrument and singing a song while the crowd enjoys the performance in its natural form. The commercial side of this industry and what people consider talent is extremely weird and worthless to my generation.
I used to be proud to be part of this all and now its more an embarrassment, not much to do with music. Pop culture that is.
I'm in it but hating where its going for my kids but I do look forward to the day things revert back to some sort of sanity. It will , don't you think?

I do love music, and hanging with my musical friends but its getting pretty friken goofy outside the circle. Watching Miley Cyrus raunch last month was about all I could stomach. Even my kids are wondering what its all about now. Pretty sad. I think there is something in the water. Up here where it appears to be cleaner, we aren't buying into it.

Bottom line, not that this has much to do with your OP, I can't help wonder how people feel entitled to art and how that is creating a new art form in itself.
The commercial side of this business is grabbing for anything they can to make a buck but the process, is destroying a culture that used to be empowering the world to be a better place. Not so sure about it anymore.

Good for you Miley, you are able to shake some ass and get paid to do it. Wow.

Looks/reads like a marketing op to me.

A guy says "This guy says this is so...and that guy is ME".

The OP's website "http://wwwDOTunited… is a "squatter site, nothing but crap ads AND the book that is being pushed is all about marketing for the musician...

Of the five posts this person has made ALL of them push either the Amazon link to "his" book, the squatter website mentioned above Or a pre written "how to" get more notice as an online marketer...OR ALL THREE!!

Spam.

Spam, do what ya want with it Chris :), but it is spam.

Space, post: 407465 wrote: Looks/reads like a marketing op to me.

A guy says "This guy says this is so...and that guy is ME".

The OP's website "http://wwwDOTunited… is a "squatter site, nothing but crap ads AND the book that is being pushed is all about marketing for the musician...

Of the five posts this person has made ALL of them push either the Amazon link to "his" book, the squatter website mentioned above Or a pre written "how to" get more notice as an online marketer...OR ALL THREE!!

Spam.

Spam, do what ya want with it Chris :), but it is spam.

It is an information piece to shed light into what our future looks like in the industry. I have never spammed here, I have written pieces to support the artist and musician and help them better themselves. Providing links to resources, stating where I am from to find out more information about me is not spam, it is good practice when your talking about big ideas. This is the only post I have put up quoting my book, and talking about our future in the industry in a newly written way, so I don't know how you can say this and my other posts are self serving. They are not self serving, and if you took the time to read them for what they are, and learn from them, we would both be better off...

audiokid, post: 407464 wrote: What ever happened to someone playing an instrument and singing a song while the crowd enjoys the performance in its natural form. The commercial side of this industry and what people consider talent is extremely weird and worthless to my generation.
I used to be proud to be part of this all and now its more an embarrassment, not much to do with music. Pop culture that is.
I'm in it but hating where its going for my kids but I do look forward to the day things revert back to some sort of sanity. It will , don't you think?

I do love music, and hanging with my musical friends but its getting pretty friken goofy outside the circle. Watching Miley Cyrus raunch last month was about all I could stomach. Even my kids are wondering what its all about now. Pretty sad. I think there is something in the water. Up here where it appears to be cleaner, we aren't buying into it.

Bottom line, not that this has much to do with your OP, I can't help wonder how people feel entitled to art and how that is creating a new art form in itself.
The commercial side of this business is grabbing for anything they can to make a buck but the process, is destroying a culture that used to be empowering the world to be a better place. Not so sure about it anymore.

Good for you Miley, you are able to shake some ass and get paid to do it. Wow.

 

Well I'd gladly give you some links where you could actually see this technology at hand, but apparently that is spam in everyone's eyes. I am pretty shocked by Miley myself, so I can understand your thoughts on that. However, what I am expressing in this piece is the use of technology in a cool and fun way that fans want. Since I can't put up a link, go google Moldover, and look at his CD Playing machine, it is awesome and really fun. We will see the musical world in a better place, it's just no longer an older generation model, it's a new one that allows everyone to be a part of the music. Art was meant to be seen, heard, touched, and experienced... this new wave of art is really no different in those senses, it is just taking them to another level. I personally remember when music videos were a love hate scenario, just as much as vinyl records will always be praised over CD's.

"They are not self serving, and if you took the time to read them for what they are, and learn from them, we would both be better off..."

They are what I said they are...self serving.

Thru the years we have had all manner of prophet come thru here try to explain to us how they are so much more in the know, they have the education we lack to move forward.

Thru the >decades< email marketing and SEO marketing has gone from black magic to an accepted form , if in the correct manner, of promotion.

The fine line you crossed, for me, is that you did what all the prophets do. You did not introduce yourself you simply opened your can of snake oil and started pouring it.

You may change some other minds but you will not change mine.

No matter that there are those that could benefit from knowing how to use the tools that they have for more than playing games or sexting the girlfriend or face-booking their life away....your presentation is crass, suggests that you know far more than I submit that you do, and is a sparkling example of the lack of social skills younger persons have in this age of anonymous integration.

Try to fit in rather than over come will ya?

Space, post: 407474 wrote: "They are not self serving, and if you took the time to read them for what they are, and learn from them, we would both be better off..."

They are what I said they are...self serving.

Thru the years we have had all manner of prophet come thru here try to explain to us how they are so much more in the know, they have the education we lack to move forward.

Thru the >decades< email marketing and SEO marketing has gone from black magic to an accepted form , if in the correct manner, of promotion.

The fine line you crossed, for me, is that you did what all the prophets do. You did not introduce yourself you simply opened your can of snake oil and started pouring it.

You may change some other minds but you will not change mine.

No matter that there are those that could benefit from knowing how to use the tools that they have for more than playing games or sexting the girlfriend or face-booking their life away....your presentation is crass, suggests that you know far more than I submit that you do, and is a sparkling example of the lack of social skills younger persons have in this age of anonymous integration.

Try to fit in rather than over come will ya?

Well all I can say is if you took the time to do some research, instead of belittle a post, you may realize I am here to help. If I took the time to introduce myself every time I wrote a blog you would belittle me because I introduced myself, yet when I do leave my information you say I am being self serving. Seems like a no win situation in your argument. I make no apologies for shedding light into something that is currently happening in our industry. I am sorry you chose to start an argument with someone rather then reach out and ask questions, continue the conversation that was proposed, and further your knowledge on a topic. I put up links for people to research, but that was spam apparently. If me trying to help others thru MY real life experiences is self serving, then sure, I do get joy from helping others reach their goals and dreams and sharing with them tricks that will help better them and their career.

Best

Please post these links, I'm intrigued and interested.

Sent from my iPhone

I tend to agree with Space but for the sake of over reacting and/or missing the punch line, you have my brief attention ,

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

[="http://www.instructables.com/id/Electronic-Instrument/"]Electronic Instrument[/]="http://www.instruct…"]Electronic Instrument[/]
[[url=http://="http://www.instruct…"]Singing plant. Make your plant sing with Arduino, touche and a gameduino[/]="http://www.instruct…"]Singing plant. Make your plant sing with Arduino, touche and a gameduino[/]
Moldover.com
Arduino.cc
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.popularm…"]10 Simple-But-Fun Projects to Make With Arduino - Popular Mechanics[/]="http://www.popularm…"]10 Simple-But-Fun Projects to Make With Arduino - Popular Mechanics[/]

Interesting.
[GALLERY=media, 339]Electronic Instrument - YouTube by audiokid posted Mar 25, 2015 at 4:48 PM[/GALLERY]

Thanks for explaining all that. I had read the thread title and wrongly imagined that a "haker" was someone who spent days trying to catch merlucciidae, but now I am enlightened.

Cro-magnon people banged their head with stoned and called that music... and today, a deranged person may call killing, Art.

Artists should be let to themself in finding ways to express themself. You'd be surprise what would happen.
But in the real world, the never ending battle between creativity and money making often push us in sad directions.

That way of making music is to real music what Wii is to real sports, fun for a few minutes but of little lasting consequence.

Blatant self promotion without any hint of meaningful participation in the forum puts it solidly in the category of spam. The thread should be deleted to negate the SEO incentive.

Nicely put but I think leaving this up now actually serves a better purpose. I had to see it for my own. This "art form" is growing, but its far from respected. Its for the idiots who buy into all the junk. It shows me how far we've digressed. I find it somewhat inspiring.

Zaque Eyn, post: 407463 wrote: Written by Zaque Eyn

“…But this new DIY’er mentality will flourish beyond just hacking something old and repurposing it. We will see albums people can actually play, instead of simply listening to them. It’s been done before, but has yet to be fully tapped into, because for so long the major labels have been scared to embrace anything new beyond what they already know. As we see more computer and electrical engineers tapping into their creative side, we will see more unique music listening opportunities. Things like playable CD cases, or playable posters, and even video flyers that show your music video in full. This is the DIY music hacker, and we will see them flourish in the years to come.

It will go beyond being able to play the album, or create your own music with their included creations as well. The DIY music hacker will create new ways of listing to, and experiencing music, entirely. They will start to create and improve upon things like earth boxes. Earth boxes, will be something in the realm of music devices harnessing the power of the earth. For instance, when an earth box is placed outside and the wind blows over it, it will start to play a song from their, or your, album, in public, all on it’s own with no batteries required. This is not a fantasy I am speaking of, it’s already a reality; one we will start to experience more of very soon. And once we experience something like this for ourselves, its mesmerizing, hypnotic architecture will still our ears for years to come. The expression will no longer just be stop and smell the roses, it will be stop and enjoy the music.” taken from the book, Mastering The Music Business: Creative Empowerment; “It” Factor in the Music Industry

The Muisc Hacker is the future of the music industry and we will see this trend start to become the norm in the next 3-5 years. People and fans no longer want a listen only experience, they want a full blown sensory experience outside of traditional concert venues and shows. We can see this trend happening currently with the advent of new technologies such as Moldovers playable CD Jewel Case (Circut Board CD), and DIY projects utilizing Arduinos as foundations for the project.

More and more we are starting to see, not only playable albums, but a culture wanting to get more involved with the artists music and the question is becoming, how do we as artists create a viable means of expression out of our control? The answer is one of complication in our craft. As artists we want control over our music, but we also want people to enjoy our music. And there in lies the problem; to enjoy music now a days to fans means being able to download the album for free, being able to re-mix the album, or really experience the album.

Like anything new in technology, we are scared to embrace anything until enough people have proven it works, and by then it is no longer unique, it is a household name. We have finally come to a point where technology is cheap enough to do whatever we want with it, and implement it into our life's in fun and unique ways. Because technology is now within the grasp of everyone, it no longer makes sense to wait, it makes sense to do.
Artists should start teaming up with engineers and developers ASAP if they have not already done so. And by this I mean, you (the person reading this article who has not already done so), because other artist are already doing it, making leaps and bounds in the industry of the future.

The industry of the future is one that is multi sensory, interactive and empowers the listener to be involved in the music. I’m not talking about crowdfunding or including fan pictures in the album art work. Our future is one that allows the fan to get the album and be able to re-mix it in a million different ways because the artist developed an app or website that allows you to do so, or implements this into the live art show. Yes art show. Forget about a music show as we knew it to be, an art show would allow anyone attending to participate in the musical performance of the artist. Maybe this means letting people plug their CD cases into a board that triggers samples in the songs the artist is playing, maybe it triggers lights during the show, maybe that iPad shows the show as a cartoon when looking at the screen in real time…

This is the new music industry, the rise of the music hacker has begun and taking over.

Attached files

Kurt Foster, post: 407498 wrote:  

It's funny how you would be so quick to judge, belittle and be a douche, instead of realizing you project what you are. Not only is this something people are already doing, but when you look at the scope of what is happening in the world around you, I have to ask, Do you live on an island? With so many people doing this, and continuing to do outrageous things at places like Dorkbots, Love Tech, Music Hacker Day, and the like, where they also teach you how to craft your own projects, you'd think a person like yourself would expand your mind and open up your potential. But maybe your just not creative, maybe you've never been told you could accomplish anything worth a dam, maybe you think being a blogger troll is your life's mission. But I'd like to think if you can take the time to find a picture, you can certainly take the time to explore what the rest of the world is doing around you. Did you even look at what can be done with Arduinos? Did you even ever think about what cool new things you could make that ties into your album outside of a t-shirt? Or is a t-shirt, sticker, and CD case the scope of your perception of what people want?

Don't be a blogger troll, Don't be a douche, and Get out of your own bubble once in a while. It is people like you who inspire and push people like me based on your ignorance, because you see I am open to all aspects, not a closed minded one. Do I think your close minded? Look at that picture you posted and ask that again.

Cheers

Zaque Eyn, post: 407506 wrote: It's funny how you would be so quick to judge, belittle and be a douche, instead of realizing you project what you are. Not only is this something people are already doing, but when you look at the scope of what is happening in the world around you, I have to ask, Do you live on an island? With so many people doing this, and continuing to do outrageous things at places like Dorkbots, Love Tech, Music Hacker Day, and the like, where they also teach you how to craft your own projects, you'd think a person like yourself would expand your mind and open up your potential. But maybe your just not creative, maybe you've never been told you could accomplish anything worth a dam, maybe you think being a blogger troll is your life's mission. But I'd like to think if you can take the time to find a picture, you can certainly take the time to explore what the rest of the world is doing around you. Did you even look at what can be done with Arduinos? Did you even ever think about what cool new things you could make that ties into your album outside of a t-shirt? Or is a t-shirt, sticker, and CD case the scope of your perception of what people want?

Don't be a blogger troll, Don't be a douche, and Get out of your own bubble once in a while. It is people like you who inspire and push people like me based on your ignorance, because you see I am open to all aspects, not a closed minded one. Do I think your close minded? Look at that picture you posted and ask that again.

Cheers

Attached files

Okay, please share what can be done with Arduinos in the pro audio recording world? How does this tie into mixing for instance?
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://en.wikipedia…"]Arduino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/]="http://en.wikipedia…"]Arduino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/]

audiokid, post: 407508 wrote: Okay, please share what can be done with Arduinos in the pro audio recording world? How does this tie into mixing for instance?
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://en.wikipedia…"]Arduino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/]="http://en.wikipedia…"]Arduino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/]

Well for instance maybe you could make an arduino keyboard, really easy to do, and then use that to record as part of a song. Then you hand craft several of these arduino keyboards and sell them along with your album, that has all the stems included, and let people play your creation while re-mixing the song. And as a bonus you include instructions that allow the users to hack your creation and make new ones of their own. That's one way. Maybe another for instance you make a noise box, use it in a song, and then not only do you have a unique all to your own music box, that you've created, but now you have a new toy for when your playing on stage. Those are just two concepts, but you can hook these things up to Ableton and have them pretty much do whatever you want... Hope that answers the question.

I wrote this response on my iPhone via the Crome app so sorry if my grammar is off.

cheers

I think I'm getting it. Its sounding something like a light organ concept, but you are using this Arduinos electronic thingy to create some audio. ?

So to manipulate the sound, you use the keyboard's note value which causes a change?

*not sure what you meant by mixing? If you mean a dj type set, I'd say rock Ableton and have an arduino noise maker, for instance, play a noise on people tables they are sitting at in certain moments of your set. Of course it would have to be a part of your overall set and style, but the concept is there, I think we/you just have to brainstorm it out for your unique style and what is possible to complement yourself. I don't think things should be gimiky ever, which is why it's all about what works for the individual

cheers

Yes, the arduino should be thought of as the brain. All the programming language is super complicated, BUT!!, it's open source and all the coding can simply be downloaded so you don't need to know that stuff, rad!

and yes, you can connect a couple of wires up and some copper tape to trigger the programming to play a note, like a synth sound. I hope that helped.

Zaque Eyn, post: 407513 wrote: Yes, the arduino should be thought of as the brain. All the programming language is super complicated, BUT!!, it's open source and all the coding can simply be downloaded so you don't need to know that stuff, rad!

and yes, you can connect a couple of wires up and some copper tape to trigger the programming to play a note, like a synth sound. I hope that helped.

The arduino, if you program it as a keyboard for instance, will generate the tone and the keys (copper tape) act as the tool to trigger the arduino

Zaque Eyn, post: 407512 wrote: *not sure what you meant by mixing? If you mean a dj type set, I'd say rock Ableton and have an arduino noise maker, for instance, play a noise on people tables they are sitting at in certain moments of your set. Of course it would have to be a part of your overall set and style, but the concept is there, I think we/you just have to brainstorm it out for your unique style and what is possible to complement yourself. I don't think things should be gimiky ever, which is why it's all about what works for the individual

cheers

I am a mixer per-say. I take tracks and mix them for clients. Could be my work also or come from another engineer that wants me to do it for them. How would this technology help me or them?

As a recording engineer, we record the performance. How would this once again help the engineer?

I see this being of interest to kids at school, but not so much for pro audio. Possibly we could use it if we were given permission to be "creative" with someones work but otherwise, its looking like a toy in a high tech world. There are random generators, arpegeators already available. How would this be more musical. I still don't hear what you are so inspired over? It sounds like crap. I'm sorry.

Zaque Eyn, post: 407514 wrote: The arduino, if you program it as a keyboard for instance, will generate the tone and the keys (copper tape) act as the tool to trigger the arduino

Yes, the arduino should be thought of as the brain. All the programming language is super complicated, BUT!!, it's open source and all the coding can simply be downloaded so you don't need to know that stuff, rad!

and yes, you can connect a couple of wires up and some copper tape to trigger the programming to play a note, like a synth sound. I hope that helped.

Okay, I think I get it.

The part I have difficulty appreciating is:
What you call creative, from a musicians POV is far from talent as we know and value. I think of myself as an athlete. I eat well, take care of my body so my mind is able to tell my fingers to move in time, with others if possible too. My ability to express music like this tells a story that comes from my soul. If its random and generated, its not possible to be true to this.

My fingers workout like an Olympian. I've had years where 10 hours of practicing was just another day for me. So I could be constant and predictable in regards to being able to say it the same when I was asked to do it again.
I also study music and sound engineering and through all this, I also try and say something worth mentioning via my voice. And it all played to the beat of a story. Musicians are reporters. We bring news to people via music.

When I see something like this I wonder where it went wrong and what happened. Its a cool toy, I suppose, but it is a far cry from what I just described. If this is a trend, its a sign that our education system is worse off than ever imagined.

Looks like a fun way to explore coding and building circuits, but real sounds originating from physically oscillating objects are more interesting to listen to and work with.

audiokid, post: 407517 wrote: The part that I think we have difficulty appreciating is. What you call creative, from a musicians POV is far from talent as we know and value. I think of myself as an athlete. I eat well, take care of my body so my mind is able to tell my fingers to move in time. They tell the story that comes from my soul. If its random and generated , its not possible to be true.
My fingers workout like an Olympian. I also study music and sound engineering and through all this, I also try and say something via my voice which is a form of reporting. So, we are reporters.

When I see something like this I wonder where it went wrong and what happened. Its a cool toy, I suppose, but it is a far cry from what I just described.

Well I go by the theory to each their own. I can appreciate where you are coming from, I too use to be like that when I was just starting out in the industry 13 years ago. I remember the issues I had with CDJ's, the time when DJ's started using CD's to play their sets instead of vinyl... let's just say I was pissed. But over time I saw their value and grew to love it. Same could be said about me and Ableton when DJ's started using computers instead of vinyl or, gasp!, CDJ's... But I changed my attitude towards this over time as well.

I guess my point is I understand you. I get it. I also think, possibly, you may be missing the point of this technology and it's use as a whole. I am a producer and audio engineer, that's what I do for a living, and if I were to approach this technology from a standpoint of what I do for a living I would be in full agreement with you because this technology has no real value in the studio realm, as far as mixing is concerned. But as a producer the possibilities are endless. When you have people selling millions of singles, or albums, all produced on a laptop it means that the times have completely changed from back in the day when I started out on tape machines. Sure I have always, and will always be a stickler for the big studios, analog gear, and real musicianship. But I also see value in something like Arduino's from a performance and fan standpoint. If people can sell millions of copies from music created strictly on a laptop, why can't someone do the same using a tone from something created by that individual?

The reason why this type of technology is inspiring is because it allows people to breach the gap from listener to actually being part of what it is I/You/They do. From a marketing standpoint this is pure genius. But this is not just about marketing or getting people involved in what a musician does, it's just as much about showing a new generation how to expand their minds and learn something new outside of sitting in front of a T.V. for any amount of time during the day. Isn't our job as musicians to inspire others and have them strive to do what we do, for them to say "One day I want to be like that person." Well I think it is part of our job to do this, and by creating art that everyone can use, change, make their own, and re-create something you/I/they have done, it opens up possibilities and new avenues for everyone.

This picture is a limited edition album that was sold along with a CD, it is only about 3 months old. When you bought the CD you also got a jacket cover you could turn into a real working turntable... yup! Of course it came with a mini record you could place on it, and if you spin it with your finger you can hear the music. The only think you need in addition to actually make it work is a needle, any kind of needle. We can argue all we want, or debate, about this new trend, but you can't say that buying a CD that you can then turn into a turntable and play your mini record you just got with it is not extremely cool.

 
The whole thing is no bigger then a jewel case. This is from Kid Koala's newest album.

Attached files

Seem like a Howard Stern episode ; People who likes him say they listen to catch what he's gonna say next. Also, people who hates him, say they listen to catch what he'll say next !

I should stop reading this thread that seems like a waste of my time.. but I keep coming back..
Now I'm gonna sit at the drum and play an organic instrument and express my feellings throught experience and the technics I learned...

Isn't our job as musicians to inspire others and have them strive to do what we do, for them to say "One day I want to be like that person."

which instruments do you play?

well we have Hallmark (or others) cards that can play songs, or voice. So a poster with a motion sensor, or touch sensor that could play a clip of your song/songs is already doable. As far as this thing. I can see some future uses for this once the technology is smoother. The problem is touch screen tablets, etc. smoke this device, and can accomplish things for the mixing engineer. I don't really forsee a big need for this. Then again I didn't buy blockbuster stock when I could have either.

After returning here and looking over this thread, I feel sad that I never acknowledged, showed respect, appreciated the fact on how people are reaching into science to come up with new ideas on connecting technology to sound. Sometimes its too easy to overlook other aspects to recording and sound when its not coming through a console or traditional source we are familiar with.
I feel like I was laughing at someone who may be the result , or or part of some amazing breakthrough. I mean, its the little things that trigger us to keep thinking.

My apologies for not seeing this in another light.

What changed me was seeing this video on how we can now amplify a video (no sound), and translate the vibrations to this amazing technology that will actually decode the amplified video into sound. If you've never seen this before, it blew my mind. The video starts out uninteresting until half way through, then you will see what I am talking about.

[GALLERY=media, 6]Michael Rubinstein: See invisible motion, hear silent sounds. Cool? Creepy? We can't decide - YouTube by audiokid posted Mar 19, 2015 at 9:05 PM[/GALLERY]