Also, lol. I the future should I be looking into a SAN instead of NAS? The one I purchased is very modest home based, and the lowest model that support virtualization, Remote Desktop, and email/web hosting. It's only real necessary job is mass storage/backup and remote file access.

Before I dropped heavy $ on some of the enterprise/mid size buiness devices, I thought this device would give me an idea of how it all works as more of a trial/test, and also help me decipher how much I want to DIY, and where the line is crossed into hiring an IT person to take it beyond. I'll get a taste of it at a relatively low cost of entry ($ 400), but really the plan is to scale this little daw/storage/network system, into something much much larger/more powerful within 4-5 years. It'll give me time to get my housing straight and my listening room created, and to save and allocate budgets properly.

Guelph_Guy, post: 434922, member: 47293 wrote: Well, my complexity is primarily to experiment, yes removing the Ethernet cable would be just as effective loll...

On another note, my windows server has a Microsoft update server service .. It connects to MSFT and downloads the patch manifest for the operating systems you have in your network (well Microsoft systems).. this allows operating system patch management locally and not connecting each of your computers to MS to get the downloads. Basically one download with internal distribution automatically. The service allows the admin to dictate which patches get deployed and deploys them in the wee hours of the AM as long as the workstation or laptop is turned on .. There are 7workstations in my network 4 laptops and some windows surface devices. And 8 virtual servers. Some of these are set up for development (web/ programming, data services,). You can also set the system up so it will only download patches for say windows 10 only.. I'm fully deployed on windows 10 across the network... and yes windows 10 has been a good deployment for me..

Anyhow, there are a number of ways to protect your network ... I do recall somebody being at the house and asking me how to protect themselves from internet viri a...I handed him a set of scissors ....lol

Cheers

This sounds super sweet! Something I'm very interested in. I know my boss goes thru hell trying to keep the 4-5 different daws the same and up to date between the two studios and his home.

I'm guessing I'd need to invest in a server computer for this?

kmetal, post: 434923, member: 37533 wrote: Also, lol. I the future should I be looking into a SAN instead of NAS? The one I purchased is very modest home based, and the lowest model that support virtualization, Remote Desktop, and email/web hosting. It's only real necessary job is mass storage/backup and remote file access.

Before I dropped heavy $ on some of the enterprise/mid size buiness devices, I thought this device would give me an idea of how it all works as more of a trial/test, and also help me decipher how much I want to DIY, and where the line is crossed into hiring an IT person to take it beyond. I'll get a taste of it at a relatively low cost of entry ($ 400), but really the plan is to scale this little daw/storage/network system, into something much much larger/more powerful within 4-5 years. It'll give me time to get my housing straight and my listening room created, and to save and allocate budgets properly.

Stay with the NAS , its far more easier to manage the a SAN ... NAS will currently support the majority of protocols. SAN is far more expensive for hardware ...(SAS drives vs SATA )
SAN is an enterprise level product where you can't afford to have a failure. SANS have 2 power supplies and consume about 1100 watts of power... my electric bill is up 60.00 / month on the SAN alone... Personally, I would have just deployed a NAS solution , but one, of my clients surplused out their old SAN and I scooped it for $250.00 with 12 TB installed at the time.

The SAN decision is basically the solution used to, support business continuity if there is a server failure. If your business is down for 2 hrs and 800 people are twitting their thumbs unable to work and the average wage is 20.00/hr... you can see where this is,going...

NAS can compete pretty well, and is much more oriented to small, to mid-sized businesses ...(there are enterprise nas solutions as well). the last SAN I deployed was $350000 and required fiber optic switches as well as ALOT of training... There are also Linux based NAS solutions which are free for personal use... FreeNas and Openfiler to name a few , both are great solutions to get your feet wet in storage and help you to understand how it all works.

Hope this helps...

kmetal, post: 434921, member: 37533 wrote: Could a similar thing be accomplished for updates, if I used a basic usb stick on another computer connected to the Internet. Where I downloaded the updates, scaned it, then installed on the studio computer (which for a Hypothetical) is never connected to the Internet?

IF both computer have the same version of windows, it's easy to install the same updates on both. Install on the first (the one who goes online) then copy the content of this folder (where windows update stores them) C:WindowsSoftwareDistributionDownload
Then install manually. Just keep in mind, your media (Ext hdd or USB drive) if infected may infect the second computer.

kmetal, post: 434921, member: 37533 wrote: It seems like you guys have worked out some really easy and simple ways to keep your computers and software running smooth and up to date, without steady Internet connections and scans bogging it down.

Well once it runs smooth, in my mind, there is no reason to keep your recording PC up to date as far as windows updates... (if it works don't touch it!!)
Or you could plug it to the network briefly to make the updates, let say once a month. But then, we must not forget that even MS updates can create problems.
80% of infection comes from a human action, visiting the wrong website, openning the wrong mail attachment, installing cracked software etc. Last year, I did let my recording computer online for a few months since I knew I was switching to win10 soon. Other than recording, I went on youtube, RO and outlook.com to communicate with customers. Never had any infection problems. So the danger is relative to your actions. IF you go for random porn sites, your risks go to 90 to 100% !

kmetal, post: 434921, member: 37533 wrote: A quick comment on bit defender, cuz Audiokid mentioned he used it. The reviews in PC mag and a couple others online didn't give it very good ratings, so I'm guessing I'll want to disable it, and install something more intensive?

Bit defender (which still uses kaspersky engine I think) has received good evaluations for years. It's a good protection but like all antivirus software can't block you from saying yes to install malicious software. In the end we are our own enemy in the virus world.. ;)
Bit defender or kaspersky coupled with Malwarebytes pro, would be a very good protection strategy. (keeping the computer offline too).. he he he

Guelph_Guy, post: 434925, member: 47293 wrote: Stay with the NAS , its far more easier to manage the a SAN ... NAS will currently support the majority of protocols. SAN is far more expensive for hardware ...(SAS drives vs SATA )
SAN is an enterprise level product where you can't afford to have a failure. SANS have 2 power supplies and consume about 1100 watts of power... my electric bill is up 60.00 / month on the SAN alone... Personally, I would have just deployed a NAS solution , but one, of my clients surplused out their old SAN and I scooped it for $250.00 with 12 TB installed at the time.

The SAN decision is basically the solution used to, support business continuity if there is a server failure. If your business is down for 2 hrs and 800 people are twitting their thumbs unable to work and the average wage is 20.00/hr... you can see where this is,going...

NAS can compete pretty well, and is much more oriented to small, to mid-sized businesses ...(there are enterprise nas solutions as well). the last SAN I deployed was $350000 and required fiber optic switches as well as ALOT of training... There are also Linux based NAS solutions which are free for personal use... FreeNas and Openfiler to name a few , both are great solutions to get your feet wet in storage and help you to understand how it all works.

Hope this helps...

Awesome! Thanks for clarification! One step at a time for me. Gracias! Plenty of interesting stuff to quench my knowledge thirst.!!

pcrecord, post: 434938, member: 46460 wrote: 80% of infection comes from a human action, visiting the wrong website, openning the wrong mail attachment, installing cracked software etc. Last year, I did let my recording computer online for a few months since I knew I was switching to win10 soon. Other than recording, I went on youtube, RO and outlook.com to communicate with customers. Never had any infection problems. So the danger is relative to your actions. IF you go for random porn sites, your risks go to 90 to 100% !

Good to know! I'll keep on in the pants while in the studio ;)

pcrecord, post: 434938, member: 46460 wrote: IF both computer have the same version of windows, it's easy to install the same updates on both. Install on the first (the one who goes online) then copy the content of this folder (where windows update stores them) C:WindowsSoftwareDistributionDownload
Then install manually. Just keep in mind, your media (Ext hdd or USB drive) if infected may infect the second computer.

Well once it runs smooth, in my mind, there is no reason to keep your recording PC up to date as far as windows updates... (if it works don't touch it!!)
Or you could plug it to the network briefly to make the updates, let say once a month. But then, we must not forget that even MS updates can create problems.

Bit defender (which still uses kaspersky engine I think) has received good evaluations for years. It's a good protection but like all antivirus software can't block you from saying yes to install malicious software. In the end we are our own enemy in the virus world.. ;)
Bit defender or kaspersky coupled with Malwarebytes pro, would be a very good protection strategy. (keeping the computer offline too).. he he he

Excellent. Looks like you guys have covered the relavent options for this type of thing. Your advice has been invaluable Marco saving me plenty of time money and grey hairs!! From the MOBO brand recommendation, to qnap, to everything else!

I will oblige with those virus scans, likely starting w bit defender since it's free, and get malwarebytes pro, which is now on the list along w w10 pro!!

I learned tha hard way about cracked software 5 years ago, none of that for me. I've always paid for my other software (before and after that momentary weakness) because it allows tech support and easy updates, and is virus free,now it's a buiness write off.

It's interesting to know now that it's actually the sites themselves or a too good to be true 'ok' from the user that causes the problems. Excellent!

Here's to hoping w10 is a robust OS for the daws! Cheers fellas!

Ok here is my installation log :

• Quadro fx 560 : no driver for 10 available = win7x64

• Install last divers from RME
• Intel driver detect : no drivers = install chipset from gigabyte website
• Download and install Media Feature Pack for N and KN versions of Windows 10 https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=48231 = ok (some audio tools and plugins needs it)
• Adjust power options to high performances (that made a difference for me)
• Performances to background (that also made a difference on how sonar runs)
• Deactivate onedrive at bootup
• Display visual effects deactivated to best performances (in
• Driver for edirol Midi controler are not available :Basically you need to download the 8.1 drivers (32 or 64 bit as appropriate), then extract the files. Then search the extracted folders for RDIF1009.INF or something similar. Modify the .inf file so all occurrences of "NTamd64.6.2" become "NTamd64.10.0". Then manually install the driver by going to device manager, right clicking on the "unknown device" (specifically the one with hardware ID USBVID_0582&PID_0005) and "update driver...". If you are running a 64-bit OS make sure also you have disabled driver signature enforcement.

For now the system work nicely. It doesn't feel faster or slower. I haven't modified anything and Sonar runs fine even with Windows defender active...
I still have a few VSTi to install, I'll let you know if I have any problems...

Awesome man!!! Interesting that it doesn't feel faster or slower. It's super cool everything is playing nicely so far right off the bat.!!! Very very encouraging. Interesting also about Windows defender. I wonder if disabling would yield any noticeable improvement, or throw everything off lol.

Have you tried anything that would test the relative performance ? Wondering if that also feels the same.

Also wondering if vsti performance is the same, and if it's the same load on resources. (Not sure if OS would even effect that) are you using a dedicated sample drive?

Killer stuff!!!! Looking forward to hearing some new tracks.

kmetal, post: 434980, member: 37533 wrote: I wonder if disabling would yield any noticeable improvement, or throw everything off lol.

The only thing that seem better is that when pushing play, the projects starts faster but it may well be a placebo thing...
I'm planning more tests in the few days, without defender and I want to go back to 8.1 to compare too.
I'll let you know ;)

Play button lag is like the worst.

kmetal, post: 435022, member: 37533 wrote: Play button lag is like the worst.

There is always a small delay for the DAW to prepare playback and delay compensations.. (how would lookahead could work otherwise)

I've tested with and without windows defender and found no incidence on CPU usage. The real test that I didn't do would be adding plugins until dropouts occurs and then deactivate defender.. Oh well.. when I get time ;)

That's pretty encouraging stuff Marco. I'm guessing based on everything that's been said so far by everyone w10 is just fine for daw, and it seems Windows defender isn't gonna effect things in any big way. Seems pretty minimal. Perhaps maybe because it's built into the os, everything is there sort of as is, so it's basically taken into consideration at square one, vs the addition of a third party virus scan.

Here is an optimisation guide I found. There maybe some too much stuff or some that doesn't really mather, but it's a good start..

You da man Marco. I vote you for RO mvp of the month. :)

kmetal, post: 435114, member: 37533 wrote: You da man Marco. I vote you for RO mvp of the month. :)

No need.. ;)

I'm still searching for this little setting that makes all the difference. On one of my very busy mix, I get some artefacts (pops).
I'm gonna work on this the next week...

Hmm. Any idea what put it over the edge? Pluggin track Ect?

kmetal, post: 435114, member: 37533 wrote: You da man Marco. I vote you for RO mvp of the month. :)

It's long overdue, IMO.

kmetal, post: 435122, member: 37533 wrote: Hmm. Any idea what put it over the edge? Pluggin track Ect?

It's definitly plugins, but I had more heavy loaded project on win8.1 in the past without living that issue. So there is something with the OS, I need to find... ;)
I remember it took 2-3 weeks of searching and testing to make windows 7 to my taste.. So, I'm not stopping yet !!

Ok guys, I'm still testing but it seems it was Windows defender. Deactivating the protection doesn't change anything for audio but using the local policies or registry to completly deactivate it seems to have made the trick.. I'll confirm if it fixed my problem in a few days.. ;)

Yes, that's how I turned it off as well.. under the local policies.. glad you have resolution to the problem let us know how its working after a few days.

pcrecord, post: 435471, member: 46460 wrote: Ok guys, I'm still testing but it seems it was Windows defender. Deactivating the protection doesn't change anything for audio but using the local policies or registry to completly deactivate it seems to have made the trick.. I'll confirm if it fixed my problem in a few days.. ;)

Good call. I wonder if all virus/malware software needs to be deactivated this way.

If you check post #30 you can see how to do that...(for those who joined the thread late)

Did a mix and a master tonight, all went well..
So for me, what did make the most difference ? Installed every updated drivers, adjusted power options too max performances (including min max cpu), deactivated defender.
What made less difference but I did it anyway : deactivated visual effect, firewall and network interface.

Of course one night doesn't meen I'm out of trouble, but it's a good start ! ;)

Glad to hear it's a fairly painless transition for ya Marco!!

Sounds like your getting your CPU cycles under control... I run minimal applications, on the system basically sonar, studio one , AUTOMAP server for novation, some motu drivers

Guelph_Guy, post: 435496, member: 47293 wrote: Sounds like your getting your CPU cycles under control... I run minimal applications, on the system basically sonar, studio one , AUTOMAP server for novation, some motu drivers

So installed programs/applications take up cpu power even when not running?

Well, in my case there are applications that launch at start up and sit in the windows tray .. In particular Novation AUTOMAP... this runs as a server application on your DAW.

even though this application uses minimal CPU resources, it still consumes memory. If you are memory constrained in your PC, you don't want to have applications sitting in the tray consuming memory.. When you don't have enough memory , you PC will use a pagefile on your c drive and push your app to storage and not memory (if you don't have enough memory, more an issue with earlier o/s's). The drive starts to churn and performance starts to falter.

I've got 32 gig in the machine and don't run a pagefile at all.. So yes more memory is better, but there is a point of diminishing return...

In memory hungry applications upgrading from 4 gig to 8 gig can show a substantial improvement (say 16-20%). However going from 8-16 gig may only yield a 4% improvement..

The caveat being that the application can leverage the memory in the PC...

Yes running applications still consume resources ( memory)

A good example is I have a financial trading application which takes incoming price data from currencies and manipulates and presents the data, even with the application minimized in the tray it is still streaming information from my financial provider. So its consuming memory and CPU cycles. Even if it's not being used. As long as its launched and in the tray its active in memory

kmetal, post: 435498, member: 37533 wrote: So installed programs/applications take up cpu power even when not running?

No K, if a software isn't running, it just takes harddrive space. But, many software have running services even if the main application is not openned. Ex : windows search is always running in memory even if you don't search anything. Also many sofware have update services that runs in memory all the time.

I'd say, do a minimum changes to the OS. Unless I have a perf problem, I wouldn't play in the services..

pcrecord, post: 435519, member: 46460 wrote: No K, if a software isn't running, it just takes harddrive space. But, many software have running services even if the main application is not openned. Ex : windows search is always running in memory even if you don't search anything. Also many sofware have update services that runs in memory all the time.

I'd say, do a minimum changes to the OS. Unless I have a perf problem, I wouldn't play in the services..

Yes , don't play with the services ....you can mess things up pretty good. There's around 30-40 services (well last time I checked). That deal with network and PC housekeeping and other resources. Networks have ALOT of chatter that runs in the background.to help your PC to find resources on the network.