Originally posted by Bill Roberts:
[QB]Downloading the songs now.......yes, I will participate.

Questions that need to be addressed:

1. Maximum number of channels
2. Sync-ing the tracks
3. Format: Raw, Stools,Aiff,Wav.,9660...etc..
4. Smpte track for analog?
5. Keep it premastered/postmastered?
6. Compiling engineer?
7. Mailout and handling personell?
8. Maximum Number of participants?

As you know, I am basically doing the turnarounds and managing the mastering project.

If any help is needed by me...I will be glad to lend a hand. [QB]

Bill,

There are many hurdles to overcome. I'm watching the input come in on the songs, and I really don't see a clear cut favorite, not that I'm surprised. Originally I had a clear choice for this Festival, and was prepared to be swayed by the future participants. Now, I just want to mix them all! But that's not feasible.

First, I have to see how many people are participating. You're right, this is considerably bigger than the Mastering project. Once a song is picked, now I'm possibly even thinking songs, then we will have to see how feasible this is. Like I said before, this will have to be a huge group effort. I won'tbe surprised if the song is transferred to 10 different formats.

As to the maximum number of channels, I don't know what that should be. I've been e-mailing the song submitters for just that. That's part of the decision.

Like I said, this is a mammoth effort, the more peole that are participating, the more that are going to have to help in some way. And it's going to cost people money, don't forget that. I'm sure that I will have to buy a reel of 2" tape so that I can mix this thing, and then I'll have to send the analog Masters that I have made to the next person to mix from. That's not cheap. And others will have shipping costs, and tape costs, and what have you.

So the price of admission to this thing isn't going to be free, just remember that. But I don't want to get into collecting money to cover costs either. This has to be a group effort, and the money that it costs people just has to be what it is.

Mixerman

Is it feasible to upload the tracks somewhere? I have a fast net connection and the downloads wouldnt be a problem.

Originally posted by Rog:
Is it feasible to upload the tracks somewhere? I have a fast net connection and the downloads wouldnt be a problem.I kinda believe that this is not going to happen. If it is, though, I guess I am able to negotiate myself temporarily up to a 1 Gigabyte worth of FTP server space, where the tracks could be stored in digital format. I guess 1 Gig per song ought to do it?

I work in the local biggest ISP as my day job in - I guess that would not be a problem. The connection speed should be a rather fast too - about 50 megs to outer world and growing fast. Also some relative value on being in the total periphery of the world - the servers are not awfully overloaded.

The thing is - I don't think that many of the participants are able to use this service - Mixerman and many others will use analog, a lot of guys are not having fast connections and so on - hey, some spent half an hour or more downloading simple mp3 songs. So I guess the vote is open - do we need the files put online somewhere or is it simply not worth it?

Best regards,
Arne Holm

It would definitely be easier for me to upload the songs from somewhere

Mike

I also could download/upload anything that is necessary.

bretford

There is positively no way I'd download anything uncompressed. If you make each track a 128k mp3 then maybe... but the raw stuff? F'get it. I'm in Sweden, net costs is per-minute.... and I'm on a tiny ISDN line... eek...

/Z

I could download the .wav files and ISDN them accross to anyone willing to dial?

This might work out cheaper for some people, especially if they're in the UK. the MP2 compression *should* be OK?!?!

It seems that SDII, AIFF, and Wave files cover the majority of people out there. We could make CD's of each of these, and just send them to people. I mean, postage on 2 CD's isn't going to kill anyone, and then the person who gets them can send it to the next person for copying.

I know, I know, that's like the dark ages, but given that broadband is still pricey, we can't expect that everyone is going to have it.

Mixerman

I posted this under Song vote, but realized that people aren't necessarily checking that thread. So maybe I'll have better luck with it here.

Not to throw a wrench in the works, but maybe we should mix all five songs. Stick with me here.
I'm not saying we each should mix 5 songs. We each should mix 1 song. But perhaps 40 mixes (probably more) of 1 song is a bit overkill. Can you imagine yourself listening to the 40th one? You'd be about ready to kill yourself.

How about if we break it up into 5 groups of 8 mixing each song?

Then everyone will be able to mix the song that they dig the most, which is always beneficial to getting a great mix.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is probably the best way to do it.

So whaddya think? You guys like that idea?

Mixerman

OK, we all know this is going to cost somebody some money. We may end up having someone send a copy out in each format, and have that person copy to someone else, etc., etc., but that seems like a huge daisy chain that'll take a lot of time, with some people starting to talk about the mixes before others have even gotten the tracks, etc., etc...

I think the model of the r.a.p. CD's and the Mastering thing going on right now is better. We could have one person per format (sdII, .wav and .aif) volunteer to do the copies, and each one of us that wanted to participate would send that person a couple of dollars to get those copies.

Put a cap on it timewise, say three weeks after the copy-volunteers get the masters, and then another three weeks or so after that, all the mixes get sent to a central person who has volunteered to (bit-identical, no processing) assemble them into as many CD's as necessary. A second round of checks would be sent to this person, who would then distribute.

I'd be happy to be the .wav guy, or do the final assembly and distribution (i'd be doing one-offs, though, so someone with a replication tower is more than welcome to step in...). I could probably do the other two formats as well, if noone else wants to, as I need to go buy a CD burner for the Mac anyway.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by Mixerman:

So whaddya think? You guys like that idea?

Mixerman

Me personally I'm OK with everything, for me this is a great chance to get to mix music other than metal for a change :)

Keijo

This is HILLARIOUS!!!
Always we DAW guys get laughed at because we dont spend enough money on our equipment, yet, you are worried about distribution???

Friggin get cable or DSL! It costs only a tiny fraction of a halfaway decent piece of kit.

What is all this about shipping CD's?
Put it on an FTP and be done with it, yesterday.

As long as the start time of each track is the same, just post em in any format that you got, from there if any one needs, someone will surely convert it for everyone.

Dont make such a big deal, this is sposed to be fun.

I like the mix the track you like idea. If I have the time, I might mix a few.

Originally posted by Aaron Carey:
Friggin get cable or DSL! .

ok, Mr. Carey...i'm afraid you've hit a sore spot...how about i live 2 fucking miles from JPL and less than 4 from the old Earthlink home office and i CAN"T GET DSL!!!!! how about the ONLY choice i have for cable is fucking Charter, who rip non-cable customers off for $50/month for fucking 2x 56k modem speeds??????and have the nerve to call that fucking broadband???? and i have to come home almost every fucking day and throw out piles of junkmail (and even email on this damn computer) screaming at me to take advantage of these special DSL/Cable offers and screaming speeds!!?!?!?!?!?! and how about the only remotely decent satellite solution in terms of acceptable performance has a $1000 installation cost!!! and haven't you read the posts from our European folk??!?!?!?!? so CRAM the flippant attitude towards the internet garbage!

whew..there, i feel slightly better now...

seriously....burning and sending 30 or so CD's is hardly a big deal... won't cost much, takes nothing to setup, and it'll work.

so there...pththtpthtpthttppp!!!

Ok then, heres a half solution. Put the stuff on a FTP for those of us who have cable...yesterday.

For those with out lets do some mailing or even better heres an idea:

We only know most of each other thru nameless facelss computer screens. Wouldnt it be cool if the guys who had cable, could burn these onto some CD's and meet ( face to face gasp! ) those who are not in the easy cable/dsl zones?

I think that would be great!
We would get to meet some of the brethren from recording.org, and be sure that everyone has a chance to participate!

How about it?
If anyone's in the central Arizona area, and needs these on CD rather than an FTP, Ill be glad to bring it.

You call that a fight?

My forum is waaaaayy to civilized.

*sigh*

Mixerman

Originally posted by Mixerman:
It seems that SDII, AIFF, and Wave files cover the majority of people out there. We could make CD's of each of these, and just send them to people. I mean, postage on 2 CD's isn't going to kill anyone, and then the person who gets them can send it to the next person for copying.

Mixerman

CD-Rs seem like the smartest way to me. Of course there's the inevitable delay, and Bill said something about a November deadline, so those could play a part.

Originally posted by Aaron Carey:
This is HILLARIOUS!!!
Always we DAW guys get laughed at because we dont spend enough money on our equipment, yet, you are worried about distribution???

Dont make such a big deal, this is sposed to be fun.

Easy to say, but appears there's a lack of telecommunications industry knowledge here. Do you realize that there are more places in the country that don't have cable/dsl than do? Hell, some places in Vermont/Conneticutt, etc., still have rotary phones. Let's trust the snail mail system for this and be sure that everyone gets a chance to play.

I'm sure that I will have to buy a reel of 2" tape so that I can mix this thing, and then I'll have to send the analog Masters that I have made to the next person to mix from. That's not cheap. And others will have shipping costs, and tape costs, and what have you.

I'd also like to mix off 2". I'd be willing to go in on a tape, and send it on when I'm done. I would assume you have a better transfer method than I do. I'd take SDII out a MOTU to ADAT then to 2". Anybody else interested?

Originally posted by Mixerman:


How about if we break it up into 5 groups of 8 mixing each song?

Mixerman

It's more work for the organizers, but I think it is a great idea.

FWIW, I agree that on-line downloads for digital files would be great, but I'm happy to help duplicate CD-Rs of .wav files if you like.

Wisch
Empty Nest Studio

Count me in for download of digital files.
Also happy to help duplicate CD-Rs.

Robert Mark

there's no way in my rural area with my wonky phone lines i'm gona download 30 -40 wave files it would take me all day and half of them would be crap. Say there are 40-50 mixers, they will fall into geographical areas Right and left coasts USA, Canada, Europe possibly Aus and Kiwi. So it seems that most likely we'll ship wave and aiff and whatever the PT file is. Pick a volunteer for each area and send them the CDR, let them duplicate and send to the 8-10 particpants in their area. I'll vounteer for Canada and eat the $100 bucks it will cost me for CDR's and priority post. Or it could break down on a format basis not geographical, again I'll volunteer for doing a chunk of the wave files folks. All other folks who are not volunteers for their area/ format, send Mixerman or his designate (got to protect that identity) $20 bucks USA which is say 40 folks (approx $800) for a real of 2 inch and mailing costs of the digi files to the volunteers (Is that enough? alter the $20 figure 'til it comes out right.) Mixerman will send on the 2" COD to the few who want to go this way(I guess someone gets to suck hind tit as far as tape wear goes, or maybe you guys with the big machines have the big bucks and you can send a fresh real to Mixerman ((no smiley but I'm fuckin laffin' here))). This should be relatively painless, although it does get cumbersome if we mix 5 tunes 'cause that seems like 5 CDR x approx 8 mailings, about 40 cdr's for each volunteer, which seems like it's and all day dupe job and a trip to the post office with no doubt a long line. So I guess don't volunteer if you can't deal with spending a day getting the stuff out, within a day or so of getting the discs. We should also agree on a burn/write speed so all are equal. Take care Logan

um...isn't the # of participants getting rather large? can it get too big?

Don't think so... If I remember correctly, the nomber of r.a.p CD sets made was about 1000, so I guess we have a long way to go...

Also, tis one doesn't have to have a centralized distribution - we should spread out the distribution chain over the continents as suggested previously. What is going to get big, though, is the finished products cd - there will be allot of songs and everyone will of course be wanting to get every song there is mixed...

Arne

Here's my offer - get the .wavs on a http site (FTP at a push!) and I'll download, burn to CD and handle the UK distribution.

Originally posted by Arne Holm:
Don't think so... If I remember correctly, the nomber of r.a.p CD sets made was about 1000, so I guess we have a long way to go...

Arne

Actually, it was 500 CD SETS, which had, depending on the year, either 4 CDs to a set, or in one year 7 CDs to the set (we won't be doing that again!
BUT, those were pressed CDs, not CD-Rs. People that will be doing the burning are going to be doing a good bit of burning, judging from the number of mixing participants. Then there's the final product to put out, and that's going to be hard to judge. Which is why the MPER/FATCo compilation CD is going to be on CD-Rs. We have a member who's taking on the duplication with his machine and only the number that get sold will be burned, rather than having left overs a year later like Harvey is currently stuck with (BUY THE RAP 3 TIMES CD).

Originally posted by RNorman:
(BUY THE RAP 3 TIMES CD).No, I won't, bought two sets already... Yes, they ROCK!

Originally posted by RNorman:
those were pressed CDs, not CD-Rs. People that will be doing the burning are going to be doing a good bit of burning, judging from the number of mixing participants

yeah, that's what i was referring to. if these songs end up being mixed by favorite choice then i won't have much of a problem, but a couple folks with the real popular tunes might have days of burning...are there any guidelines that should be followed for the burning, meaning is doing the individual tracks as data at 8x-16x whatever going to have any potential sonic impact, as it could when doing a master?

on an unrelated note, what are the rules for changing/replacement of tracks? i suppose it doesn't need said that, though some of the folks mixing are killer 'x instrument' players and could perform better or add to a part...it shouldn't be allowed. but does that also apply to the trend towards of drum triggering/replacement? i would think one of the whole points of this exercise is dealing with the challenges of not only arrangement, but also dealing with less than sonically steller tracks by working with them, not just throwing them out...and i dare someone to make my drums sound good ;-)

Originally posted by Rader Ranch:
on an unrelated note, what are the rules for changing/replacement of tracks? i suppose it doesn't need said that, though some of the folks mixing are killer 'x instrument' players and could perform better or add to a part...it shouldn't be allowed. but does that also apply to the trend towards of drum triggering/replacement? i would think one of the whole points of this exercise is dealing with the challenges of not only arrangement, but also dealing with less than sonically steller tracks by working with them, not just throwing them out...and i dare someone to make my drums sound good ;-)
Also - what about editing? I am in the middle of the process of editing a really sloppy played rhythm guitar to fit the track, it's boring as hell but I am willing to to anything to make a song rock... So - is editing allowed?

I would say, this isn't a contest- do whatever the hell you want, as long as you can look in the mirror and say 'I believe I am serving the song.'

Originally posted by Arne Holm:

Also - what about editing? I am in the middle of the process of editing a really sloppy played rhythm guitar to fit the track, it's boring as hell but I am willing to to anything to make a song rock... So - is editing allowed?