Let's face it, all of us at one time or another have heard a new artist on the radio or a video and wondered "Why the hell are they signed and I'm not? They suck!"
What's your take on this controversial and subjective subject?
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So after reading that artical I was wonderin how one would protect them self so they don't get f**%ed by the record co?
I have some friends that just got singed to Sire.They've been singned to an independent label fer a few years and put out one album with them.They've been tourering mostly in Eroupe fer years and are aparently pretty big over their playing the Redding festival and other good gigs.
I don't know whats going on but to me they are allready getting f***ed by Sire.They were recording an album with a name producer that was to be released this year but keeps getting pushed back.Sire did put out their Peel Sessions but I can't seem to find it anywhere.
I wish them the best but it doesn't look good.I know that the drummer was making more money at the job he had then hes making now.
This whole business really seems f***ed up to me.
(Watch your language, we have students who view the boards.)
[ November 18, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Kurt Foster ]
Originally posted by RODNEY:
OK Kurt how can ya get them to bring lube to the dance?
That's simple - be the prom queen. If you're just some nobody looking for love, bring your own lube, and be glad you got asked at all.
Something I'd like to bring up: I think that all this anti-record label sentiment is somewhat misplaced. Without disputing the fact that the major labels are evil behemoths with a monopolistic control over marketing and distribution channels, for the most part, labels lower in the pecking order are just trying to stay afloat in a very hard-to-sustain business.
Sure, they may not pay you what you're worth, and treat you badly, but the chances are, they aren't going to see very much themselves either, and the only way they can get any business going at all is on promises and optimism.
From what I've seen, despite the amount of glitz and glamour on mtv, when you count the number of people involved, and divide it down, there's very little money in the music business, and when it does show up, it's concentrated in the hands of a teensy number of the lucky few. Then, since you only hear about success stories, and not all the failures along the wayside, it looks easy, and like there's lots to go around.
So make sure that you are doing what you love -today- while striving to make your situation improve. BUT, don't live hoping that it's going to be any different tomorrow.
I have to agree with that. I have seen some "indie" labels behave as badly as any of the majors do .. and to get an accouting out of any of them, after you have received the inital advance, is like pulling teeth. You have to be ready to go to court..
The only people besided the labels that really make any money from record sales is the songwriters.. they haven't figured out a way to get that money .... yet.
... and along comes online music distribution (or Napster as we used to call it) and an opportunity to change pretty much everything about this business. The unfortunate thing is that it is pretty damn hard to figure out a really working business model.
The record companies got their shin kicked real hard. And again. About the fifth time around they started to realize that they might actually have to do something because it really started to hurt. So they began sueing individuals. Scare the sh*t out of your customers. There's an idea.
Finally Apple iTunes and the online store came around. New music was legally downloaded and people actually paid for it. I don't know if any of the money went to musicians ... do they provisions for online music distribution in their contracts these days? How about the people that own rights related to distribution of physical media? All SOL ?
I hate to state a problem without being able to offer a viable solution but there is a unfortunately a very real chance that the dust settles again and the record companies get to continue with old habits in the new system.
So, how do WE make a difference. How do we get closer to establishing a "Dell distribution model" in the music business? You know, from component suppliers (bands and musicians) directly to consumers (music listeners) with only one instance in between that takes a fair share for the marketing & promotion efforts... (which is where my analogy might be starting to fail ;) ).
I personally believe that there are some good ideas out there. The trouble with existing sites like MP3.com is that sorting through the riff-raff (forgive me for saying this about fellow musicians) totally turns people off. An initially great idea has turned into this "amateur music bin" that attracts friends and family of the band because they were told to go there and about 2-3 other oddball fellows that don't have anything else to do than sift through the rubble to find the occasional gem.
I apologize if I am sounding arrogant. It is not my intent. Just wanted to offer some food for thought / discussion.
MisterBlue.
Allthough I have to agree with a lot of things mentioned here and -be sure!- the subject does frustrate me too, I would like to throw in my $ 0.02:
I haven't read it all, but it seems like a lot of you think that there are many (bad)artists who make money and a lot more (good ones) who don't,. Also there's a lot of talk about the recordcompanies and how bad they are, only in for the $$ etc. There's definately a point there.
But before we all get frustrated we should ask ourselves:
Why do we make music in the first place??
I made a living out of it for a while and came to the conclusion that I would rather do something else for money...just because I did not like what I had to do (as in: playing music you don't like, for people you don't like).
So I took a 20hr/week job to pay the rent and now have plenty of time to do my own thing. For me, making music has to make me feel good.
The band I am in has recorded 3 albums, paid for by a rec.company. The sales were just enough to get even for them, but still they let us make another one just now. We have done many nice gigs in different countries, never enough to "pay the rent" but always a lot of fun and adventure and expences+ paid. I would have loved to pay for the experience...
The band started as a "have fun project"; 7 guys (OK: all studying/finished studying music) getting together ones a week to have some fun, doing our own thing. No intentions to do gigs or whatsoever...
We will never make mega-bugs, but there's still enough people who like what we do (10 years now, and believe me we have thought about quitting more then once) and every time I see people having a good time on the thing we are doing, I know why I like this so much.
If you want to make big bugs, go and find a decent job :-)
If you want to make music: play and have fun!
No offence meant! (I had a couple of beers..)
PS: I do agree the music business (as in bizz) su**s indeed!
Charles Ives went to college for music and composition. He then went on to become an insurance salesman, ultimately to start his own company with a partner, Julian Myrick.
He believed that music for commercial gain was ultimately a self-defeating policy. Thus, he made his living a different way and created his music the way he wanted to at night and on weekends. Leonard Bernstein once referred to him as a "sunday composer".
This makes a great deal of sense to me, personally.
It's hard to believe that I've never posted anything on this thread. Anyway, I'll throw myself into the mosh pit now....
First, the question of what is music and what is a musical instrument. According to John Cage music is "the organization of sound". If this is the case, then any noise organized into a specific time frame is music. At a concert of his compositions he walked out to the piano, closed the keyboard cover, pulled a stopwatch from his pocket, started it and placed it on the music rack of the piano. After four minutes and 44 seconds he reached up, clicked off the stopwatch, put it back into his pocket and walked off stage. This is, according to his definition, music. By placing a specific time frame around the sounds of the audience whispering, shuffling their feet, coughing, shifting in their seats, etc. these random sounds are now music. If you subscribe to this point of view anything is a musical instrument. Just to push this a little further to all of the “old-timers”, is Number 9 on the White Album by the Beatles music?
So, if rap/hip-hop is the same beat/groove all of the time, what about fifties music? The same old I/vi/IV/V chord progressions over and over again. If you were lucky there might be something different for the bridge. Well, maybe it has something over rap/hip-hop; there were TWO tempos, fast and ballad! Pete Townsend even wrote a song about his own creativity and being a writer/composer, “Same Old Song” (“with a few new lines, and everybody wants to hear it”). How many blues songs are out there? I/IV/I/V over and over again.
The technology explosion of the 20th century has made for profound changes in the human experience. In the early 1900’s people for the first time in human history had the opportunity to share moments in time without being there personally. You could wind up a record player and actually hear Caruso sing, or go to a theatre and see the devastation of San Francisco after the great earthquake of 1913 (I think that was the year). Radio and television gave us the ability to share in an event as it was happening. And as wonderful as the expansion of technology is, it has left us with a homogenous patois of experiences.
Music in its most basic form is about the sharing of emotions. A great composer has the ability to reach us on an emotional level, to see and experience the things he wants us to see and experience. To me the whole rap thing is just short form story telling. It is the folk music of the technological age. The same applies to whatever label they have given today’s guitar driven music. It reaches its audience by relating to the world as it is now. I personally have not heard much in recent years that will stand the test of time, you know, the songs that will be on the radio 20 years from now. And that, to me, comes down to real talent, artistry and craftsmanship. I hear/see precious little of that anywhere. Maybe it comes down to the way we shortchange our children with our current educational system. A school district in the suburban NYC area is having budget problems, and of course the political mud is flying. But what are the first programs that they will cut? Theatre, Art and MUSIC. God forbid that they cut the sports programs! There is something fundamentally wrong with a society that pays such enormous lip service to family and children but pays a garbage man, excuse me, a sanitation engineer, more money than it pays the people who educate our children or protect us from criminals and the hazards of life. There is something fundamentally wrong with a society that gives a person 10 years hard time in prison for stealing $500.00 at the point of a gun but 3 years raking sand traps on a golf course for stealing billions at the point of a mouse.
So don’t go blaming the demise of the entertainment industries on big business. We created that monster ourselves. We want our stock portfolios to do well, we want to buy products cheaply, we want, we want, we want. Get your ass out there and DO something. Participate in your children’s lives. Vote in your local elections, which in many ways are more important than the presidential elections. Support your local rock ‘n’ roll band. Go out and see an indie film. Go to an art show. Spend some time in a museum. If you want people to create great art, support those who are trying to create great art. Educate yourself and those around you as to what great art really is. There will never be any more great art unless there are people who appreciate it and support it.
Peace to all,
Uncle Bob
:p:
Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
To me the whole rap thing is just short form story telling. It is the folk music of the technological age.
Which is what I have been saying. Rap is one evolutionary strand of the griot/poet tradition.
Of course rap is abused. So is nuclear energy.
But if we all see beyond the bling-bling, big-booty-ho, bust-a-cap-in-your-ass nonsense, then we see what it is and what its origins are.
Just like if we examine Islam (or any other faith FTM) from the viewpoint of its doctrines and not of its so-called followers then we get a picture of what Islam is, not what the 6 o'clock news says it is.
mitz
Nail on the head Uncle Bob. Wow.
Now...How to change it.
One idea I'd like to float out there comes from experiance.
I got a phone call one Saturday at the station I was working at in Northern Minnesota. I figured it was a request for a song, which is was, but we didn't have. The caller went on to say that there was a local band that played last night at the VFW and was a blast to listen to. She (the caller) said that I need to get out and listen to the band and get a copy of thier CD so we can play it on air. I blew her off with a "Thank you, I will" and went back to work. The next weekend came up and I remembered the caller. I had nothing going on so I figured, what the hell. I'll go and check them out. Now the nice thing about small town radio is that no one knows what thier local DJ's look like. I grabed a brew and found a table just as the band took the stage. No lights up yet. Set-up noise. No announcement of who is playing. Pure silence for a good 15 seconds. The band kicks in with the lead singer opening up with the 1st verse of Patsy Cline's "Crazy". The crowd lost it right there. Beer went flying and the people hollered. Neither the band nor the lead singer missed a beat. The singer had correct pitch, depth, warmth, presence, fullness, and force. I figured the VFW brought in a wringer from Nashville as a suprise.
The suprise was on me. For what the audience knew, I did not. The lead singer was 12-years old and was being backed up by her 16=year old sister. They had been playing every place they could in the northern part of Minnesota from Deluth to Grand Forks, ND and beyond. I was blown back in my chair by a voice that was 10 years beyond her current age.
After the concert, I found the band manager (her dad of course) and asked for a contact number. I bought a CD at the door on the way out. It was filled with some covers such as "Crazy", but it also had a couple of originals on it that were solid. Nothing world shaking, but solid. That Saturday morning, the day after the concert, I traded shifts with the scheduled DJ just so I could break the CD on-air NOW. Before the 1st cut had even finished playing, I had 9 calls wondering who it was, and can they hear more. 9 calls in smallsville USA in a matter of 3mins is rare. I knew that there was something there in those girls.
I decided to give the contact number a call to set up and interview. Turns out, it was thier home phone number!! LOL... No office, no publicist, no fancy manager. Just dad on the other end. I asked for permission to go live and interview the girls. A yes was quick to follow. Katrice and her sister did quite well during the 10 minute interview. A bumble here and there but expected. Definetly a more polished interview than some Pro's that I've talked with (Aaron Tippen, Ray Price, and Glen Campbell to name a few). After the interview, the phones damn near blew up. More, more, more. I helped them to book a room in the town that our station was in to expose them to a larger crowd (about 10K). After that, it was too big a promotion project for a little ole DJ to handle, so I said my "Good Luck, Stop at the station anytime".
The last that I heard from thier campwas that they took a trip to Nashville to see about getting a contract. They came back with a Demo Deal at Sony, if I remember right, with a promise of a second trip if the demo went well.
The lesson learned here was that there is a Grass-roots way to get there. If the music and skill is there, people will listen. People will come to shows, people will notice.
By the way. Remember the Saturday morning caller that started all of this?? It was Mom making the calls. She called all the radio stations that day within a 100 mile radius. Mom started the buzz.
I laughed too when I found out the truth to it all. :)
Keep the faith. You'll get there.
CustomProd
There is a HUGE pool of blood saturating the ground around this horse - I'm assuming due to the countless lashes it has received - and yet it's still not breathing! :)
This has been a great thread, but I'll have to say that opinion is just that - opinion. It's all subjective, folks. And all attempts at persuading, pleading, prodding, arguing, and informing will do no good. You either like something, or you don't. Does this make one narrow minded? I don't think so. Music is enjoyed using one of five human senses - hearing. Another sense is taste, which is equally subjective, but if you don't like chicken liver and beef brains you're definitely "out of touch". :) Peace!
Great Reply above Uncle Bob,
I agree completely.
But just for the record, Cage's piece was 4'33". Maybe the extra :11 seconds is on a dance remix!!! or a hidden bonus track!!!
An argument can be made that Cage, Ives, Schoenberg, Berg, Babbit, etc... all SUCK.
Except that they don't- but an understanding of Why they did what they did is usually critical to understanding their music, and most people don't want to work that hard at their jobs, let alone at what they consider entertaining distractions.
The difference is Art vs. Entertainment and Cage et al, are required to have meaning behind what they do as artists.
Pop "artists" don't have any such requirement- it only has to distract/entertain/make you dance.
Therefore it can be S%&*, judging it by the same criteria isn't fair. They get to suck because consumers don't care.
Based on any definition of a quality meal, McDonald's sucks too, but plenty of people eat there everyday.
Phil
An argument can be made that Cage, Ives, Schoenberg, Berg, Babbit, etc... all SUCK.
Except that they don't- but an understanding of Why they did what they did is usually critical to understanding their music, and most people don't want to work that hard at their jobs, let alone at what they consider entertaining distractions.
How true, how true.
About ten years ago I attended two John Cage "operas". All of the parts, both orchestral and vocal, were razor bladed out of public domain scores and randomly pasted back together. This means that an oboe could play a cello part, a trumpet a string bass part, a bass could sing a soprano part, etc. The costuming was just as random. The performers were cued to perform thier parts by a chronometer system which was in the pit, on stage and visable to the audience.
The results were disturbing, bizarre, hilarious and surreal, sometimes all at the same time. Trying to descibe the experience is like attempting to describe a sunset to a man blind since birth.
I ran across this article, which I think many of you will find interesting. He may be dreaming but his heart is in the right place.
http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/1103/13.classicrock.shtml
Nice article- Thanks
I grew up listening to FM radio in the early 70's that regularly played album sides. The DJ's were usually stoned and it wasn't unusual to hear dead space for minutes at a time when they didn't catch that the album finished - they were still out in the lobby/parking lot.
As the industry changed it stopped holding the same appeal. "People" (read consumers) started listening to FM and I moved to listening to fusion, which led backward to Bop and the Hard Bop of Coltrane and the 60's avante garde.
This was before I went to college as a music major and learned about Cage et al.
Currently, I am suprised when any performer demonstrates passion- it doesn't matter what style of music they choose. I think rock/jazz has reached the REcreation stage and it will take a crossover wunderkind with chops, passion, a vision and talent to change the course of pop music history. It can happen, it has before, I'll be waiting. I don't expect it to come from a major label.
Yeah, they just toss out the songs on the play list.
Back in "the day", the mid-70's, I listened to WNEW 102.7 FM out of NYC. Allison Steele and company actually mixed sets. Songs flowed from one to another. They took you on a musical journey. And they would take you from Hendrix to Joni Mitchell to Yes in one set and make it work!!!
I listened almost every night to Allison, the Night Bird. She had the greatest voice. It blew all of my adolescent fantasies when I saw her picture for the first time!
:p:
She had the greatest voice. It blew all of my adolescent fantasies when I saw her picture for the first time!
Ah yes, a face made for radio... a stereotype that has the ring of truth on a regular basis.
I can't even describe 70's radio to my high school students - they don't get it. But I felt really dated a few years back when they were trying to use my turntable and they didn't know where to drop the needle(outside or inside edge) OUCH!
Greetings
I've just read through this whole thread - phew!
Great thread btw. This is one of those subjects that will be discussed till the human race ceases to exist.
I'm just turning 44 years old, I got into music heavily at 13 and have never looked back. Since then it's been my reason for existence.
I'm a piano/synth player. I've earned a living being in a band, and also from audio engineering. I now write and record in a DAW/midi project studio.
I's like to point something out based on my experiences.
Back in the 70's when I first got into music, and started exploring what was out there I noticed the following...
In 1973...
1] The music was generally but not exclusively divided into these broad groups
a] Artists who Wrote and Performed who had charisma
b] Artists who Wrote and Performed who had NO charisma
b] Artists who only performed tunes from a songmsith but had charisma
c] Artists who only performed tunes from a songmsith but had NO charisma
d] Artistes who were simply complete SHIT
2] To the young kids music was new and exciting. they got into the music their friends liked becuase of peer pressure. The kids realy dug both great music and average music. It was all new. Some of them learnt inastruments or sang, and made tunes with 3 chords and teenage angst or 3 chords and infatuated lyrics
3] The grown ups said the chart music was crap, and they didn't have artists or write songs like they used to. The thought the lyrics to the kids music was either cheesy or offensive. The grown ups only remember the good music from their day, and forget that there was a good deal of crap back in the 50's and 60's too.
4] People moaned about the rip off, bland and crass music business
5] Musicians who spent too much time perfecting their instrument, and not enough time being an 'artist' were moaning about the music business.
***********
now let's look at the situation in 2003....
In 2003...
1] The music was generally but not exclusively divided into these broad groups
a] Artists who Wrote and Performed who had charisma
b] Artists who Wrote and Performed who had NO charisma
b] Artists who only performed tunes from a songmsith but had charisma
c] Artists who only performed tunes from a songmsith but had NO charisma
d] Artistes who were simply complete SHIT
2] To the young kids music was new and exciting. they got into the music their friends liked becuase of peer pressure. The kids realy dug both great music and average music. It was all new. Some of them learnt inastruments or sang, and made tunes with 3 chords and teenage angst or 3 chords and infatuated lyrics
3] The grown ups said the chart music was crap, and they didn't have artists or write songs like they used to. The thought the lyrics to the kids music was either cheesy or offensive. The grown ups only remember the good music from their day, and forget that there was a good deal of crap back in the 70's and 80's too.
4] People moaned about the rip off, bland and crass music business.
5] Musicians who spent too much time perfecting their instrument, and not enough time being an 'artist' are moaning about the music business.
***********
Ya see, nothing has changed. The generation gap is still alive and well 30 years later.
Yeah, some things have changed. the radio stations may have got too advertisement dependent ( at least in the UK we still have state owned national stations - NO ADS - Luxury :) ]
Less people maybe learning traditional instruments, and expressing themselves through turntables instead.
Lyrics maybe about 'guns in the hood', instead of getting 'stoned on acid, man!'
But from my experience the ratio of good and bad music, the generaton gap between young and old, the disdain for the music business is just the same as it was 30 years ago.
Me? Well, I like a lot of the music that's around today. I also think a lot of it is crap. But then I felt like that in 1973 too.
Yes, it would be nice if artists got a larger cut of the cake, but we have to remember the artist is only a small part of the operation to sell the product to the masses.
Yeah you can release the music yourself, and take all the profit. but then could you sell and distribute your music to millions of people across many countries all on your own. :)
And if you think most of the music the music business is peddling is crap, then it just means yuo have minority tastes. ( although equally as valuable as everyone elses )
I don't necessarily like the music business, I can just understand why it's there.
So to close, I think there's a lot of 'generation gap' opinions in this topic. it doesn't suprise me. I would guess the average age of people here is around the 40's.
It's exactly the same in the Cubase Forums where I spend most of my browse time. Same average age. Same range of opinions.
And that's not an insult in the slightest. No ones taste is any more valid than anyone elses.
there ya go. Just my couple UK shekels worth
thansk for listening
Paul
The death of the local radio station is also adding to the problem. Now a majority of radio stations, even in one market area, are owned by one large corporation that is taking a legalized version of payola for playing songs that the record companies want to have played on the air.
The regional or local band that use to be able to get their stuff played on radio is simply out of luck unless they can find a college radio station that will play their stuff to a very limited audience.
The days of having an knowledgeable DJ playing a variety of songs that people want to hear is over and has been for about the past 5 years.
In the '70s and '80s it was still possible to have someone in the know listen to your music and maybe give you some support. I know I use to go with some friends to small shows in NY city and find that there were A&R guys there listening to the band. That won't happen today. It is more likely that the A&R guy is putting a band together for a new "boy band"
You also use to be able to get to talk to a DJ at the local station and maybe interest him or her in your music. Today that DJ is in Los Angles and is playing the tunes his boss has on the rotation list for that hour and NOTHING more or less. If the big companies could get a robotic voice to read the copy in a believable sounding voice they would fire the humans in a second and have the robot read EXACTLY what the boss had written.
Not easy today to be a musician and get your stuff out to the masses even with the internet.
Another post where I am a year late to the table. Consider the
Another post where I am a year late to the table.
Consider the audience. Consider what they have been groomed on as opposed to what you have been groomed on. Consider that understanding what's going on in a lot of what we might agree on as "classic" music requires some deeper appreciation for music and lyrics than most people possess these days. It's an ADD world...and with so many people willing to compromise their craft for a record deal, it's gonna be the status quo for a very long time.
This is how I keep everything in perspective. If you compare a knock-off pop band of today to the Beatles (everyone seems to skip over the fact that they were a knock-off of Chuck Berry meets the Everly Brothers for at least 3 albums)...they'd get dropped before they could make a meaningful contribuition to music. Led Zeppelin wouldn't get signed today...and Jimi Hendrix CERTAINLY wouldn't get a deal today (can any of the current crop even PLAY a guitar solo?).
When I think about it like that, I don't feel so bad. If the people with the contracts would focus on becoming better musicians and writing better music, we'd all be in much better condition.
jimistone wrote: never in my life have i seen every gendre of mu
jimistone wrote: never in my life have i seen every gendre of music suck as bad as it does now.
pop: perfect autotuned crap that has no lyrical content anymore.
country: gone are the glory days of the late 70's outlaw movement. now its a bunch of prettyboys in white cowboy hats that sing the songs that the same handfull of nashville writers churn out daily(maybe thats whay it all sounds the same) :eek:
at least you used to could count on country music to deliver great lyrics. now country is basically pop (see above "pop" description.)rock: 7 string guitars with scooped mids played by guys who can't even play 6 string guitars... wearing clown makeup no less (IDEA!!..get ahold of bozo the clown and ronald mcdonald, get ibanez to make some 8 string guitars and cut a record... it would be huge!..the time is right!)
R&B: this genre used to be called "soul"..i can see why they changed it. who in the hell came up with this new style of voice quivering that all the R&B has now? whoever it was should be hung by the neck until dead...or...make him listen to that shit for a few hours and he will hang himself.
Rap: dosen't most of this sound the same..or is it just me. all the filty language and extream subject matter had shock value back in the 80's but now its been done to death and then some. Also, does every song in almost every genre HAVE to have the obligatory rap passage?
blues: mostly new artists doing old classics and old artists doing old classics. does anybody write new blues songs besides me? I have been hearing blues tunes with "the obligatory rap passage" on the radio lately. that REALLY gives me the blues.
damn its time for something new to hit big...but...how can it when the powers to be want everything to sound the same.
im thru ranting now
You are so rigth , but the worse thing is the 'new' popstars-TV show where people who cant sing is put through a huge trainingprogram and produced and compressed violently ...and you know what ?
Here in france they are the best selling , after the compilations ofcourse.
The ansver is , what they see on TV ..they buy it.
I think I want to be a staragent , then I will be sucked as I please , by blond nontalented girls. :lol:
Back to the question.
Either what you do is not personal , mature , or traditional enougth.
Or the People who decides who signes, dont know s*** about music exept what sounds like Britney.
:wink:
Lots of talent and lots of luck gives you a chance- conections g
Lots of talent and lots of luck gives you a chance- conections gives you a better chance- you don't need as much talent if you are well connected, just a little and luck. Good looks will definitely give you an edge. If you have that 'look' that appeal to the masses you are in business. What can I say, the movie culture has made looks mandatory. If you aint got them, you better have lots and lots of talent, connections and luck-
In terms of recorded music as opposed to live music, how does th
In terms of recorded music as opposed to live music, how does the recording "industry" survive when anything that is released, whether it cost $75.00 or $750,000 to produce, can and is copied, compressed and instantly re-distributed for free all over the world?
We are the first industry in history to be confronted with this challenge, and no amount of copy protection can ever work - as long as music still appears at the end of a pair of speaker cables, someone can re-print it and it is cracked.
I think that recorded music will become a world wide hobby activity, but there will be no real "industry" as such. We all hear the decline in quality if production, because it is all being done by amateurs with DAW's. But what business person in their right mind would invest large sums into a recording that will be stolen and distributed free?
The net is great for promotional purposes, especially for touring bands, but for those artists who cannot use touring to generate income, selling recorded songs doesn't seem to be a way to make a living, more like a hobby and a labour of love.
This is my first post here. I must say I am enjoying the threa
This is my first post here.
I must say I am enjoying the threads regarding the state of "music" of late. Alot of what has been said are things I've said many, many times myself.
I am one of the amateurs with a DAW.
I do what I do with it because I love the music that I write, and that which I listen to. I'm one of the 18 people in the U.S. that likes progressive metal. I enjoy learning my instruments (guitar and drums) and trying to become a better musician. Recording my work forces me to play better, as I hate to punch in. "One solid pass or back to the woodshed", as it were.
Steve, you hit the nail on the head. Do it for the passion of doing it, and who cares about the money? Why does everything in Amerika have to be about the money? Why do we here have to have more than everyone else in the world? How much is enough? How much is too much?
There was talk of some sort of "post and review" type of system in here to allow unknown artists without label connections to get their stuff heard by more than 5 people. This would be a great thing. I hope this goes off. I would support this as much as I could.
I think a side benefit would be that only the music would matter, and not the nice rack the chick has, or how skimpy her clothes are, or what kind of ridiculous schlocky clown getup you have on. Present the work, and not the gimmicks, and stand on merit within your genre.
Maybe some genres would actually disappear, or at least be reduced in importance.
Times are changing. And none too soon.
Enough of my babble. Great site and great thoughts by all.
Thanks for doing this.
You guys rock for this site and this thread! For over 3 years a
You guys rock for this site and this thread!
For over 3 years a buddy and I have been freestyling whenever we get together. We had no prior musical experience or training, but we loved music. I, personally, grew up on 80's R&B, Pop, Rock and New Wave, as well as early 90's Hip-hop and alt. rock.
When we would get together, we would pop in an instrumental we picked up a someone's cd single at Tower, and just drop a freestyle on the spot, while recording it on some getto tape player. This is how we hung out, got together once a month, talked about everyday shit, smoked a bowl, and dropped flow.
The one feeling I cannot express in words is the feeling of complete bliss while dropping and that same feeling while listening to our stuff. As you can easily imagine, our stuff was NEVER the greatest quality, probably sounded dirty as hell, but it was OUR stuff and we talked about things in OUR life.
You'd never hear us doing the typical "Imma Millionaire Thug" crap. We talked about everyday shit that happened to us, like- how my brother screwed me over on the rent, or how my friend is a dick for making us pay for gas when he comes to visit us.
Anyway, what I really wanted to say was - I respect those who are doing the music because they love to do it and don't expect to become rich or famous from it. Do it for yourself...I wish everyone could share that feeling I get whenever I listen to my own stuff...It's indescribable, but during those few minutes the song is playing, I'm in heaven.
RillyGetto You obviously do what you do for the right reasons, a
RillyGetto
You obviously do what you do for the right reasons, and with complete personal integrity. This is how worthwhile things come about.
People who spend all of their energy trying to become famous don't have time to do anything worthwhile, and like the other 99.999% of fame-hungry no-talents, they lose out in the fame lottery.
When you write for yourself, and you genuinely like what you produce, it might just happen that someone else will like it too, and then someone else, and then someone else....
You just never know!
John Stafford
I completely agree with what's been said here over and again. T
I completely agree with what's been said here over and again. There's nothing worthwile going on in the music scene, period. The one issue that really bugs me, and is sometimes seriously PAINTFUL for me, is to listen to them horrible, absolutely volatile song lyrics people these days put out there. What ever happened to the poetry of songwriting man? And i'm not just talking about singer-songwriter type of songwriting, just songwriting, period. Nothing has any meaning at all anymore.
And then there's them rap morons, going around saying "i got shot 9 times, kiss my ass" thinking they're bad ass. Man, check out the Velvet Underground if you want bad ass.
And f*ckin, "your body is a wonderland," crappy ass cofee house bull, and kids going round thinking that's hot shit, poetry or whatever, man, put on a Bob Dylan record (cd, whatever), there's some damn poetry for ya!
And the "Strokes", "White Stripes", and "Vines" (etc. etc. etc.) They're nothing more then f*cking, cheap, plastic, imitations of a scene that ended 'bout 3 decades ago.
Where's all the INNOVATION and ORIGINALITY gone to?
'Bout time we bring some of that back...
RUM RUM RAMBLE, DEE DOO...
Whatever, just my 2 (or 3) cents... :wink:
Kurt Foster wrote: You said “What changed isn't the amount of ta
Kurt Foster wrote:
You said “What changed isn't the amount of talent, it's the use of the available tools. It's up to you how to use those tools - in creative or uncreative way.” My answer to that is the focus of “talent” in much of the music business has shifted from how good you sing or play or write to how good you look, move and dance. This is a fact IMO. In the 50’s and 60’s if you couldn’t really perform, it was cost prohibitive to try to record you. It simply cost too much to try to fix it in most cases. The cheapest way to make a recording was to go out and book the best musicians possible. This contributed to the high level of quality in those recordings. The same is not true today. The most important thing now is ones appearance. All the other stuff can be manipulated in computerland so image takes precedence. I blame-a MTV!
This is it!!
But on a related note. It is interesting to view the state of the business now, when record sales for the year are being issued.
This is the season when people really open up their wallets. And the sales figures reveal exactly that (at least here). All those who released a CD, the last few weeks before Christmas, ended on top of the sales charts. And people who would not dream to put out music in January, April, June...... make a cosy fireplace music that goes well with people, who dont buy music the rest of the year. I find that to be sad but it's true.
How can we make people (with deep pockets), as open to music the rest of the year? Could it be by making models do their thing and let musically talented people take care of music?
Personally I'm not too concerned about the state of music right
Personally I'm not too concerned about the state of music right now. Perhaps it's a blessing that THEY are signed and I'm not. I'm not in any hurry to sign my soul over to McWarner MicroVirgin Universal Oil Mart and its subsidiaries. Not just yet anyway.
Thanks to the internet, the playing field is a lot more even now and someone with very little money can be heard on a global scale. You say there is no more good music around anymore? Sure there is. You just gotta dig for it.
Check out this article by Steve Albini. It's absolutely scathing and hilarious... and so true. But more importantly, it's in the flavor of what we're talking about. :wink:
Does being signed really mean that much ? as long as you can pla
Does being signed really mean that much ? as long as you can play and record on your own terms, that to me is whats important.
Some bands that I've known run into trouble when being signed really sux, the pressure, deadlines and ALL the fingers that have input into the final sound of a recording.
I guess its a balance, but I think distribution deals are a good option as opposed to being signed.
Persistence, Professionalism, Signing up with indy labels and working towards major labels could be a path you can pursue.
I think the days of selling CDs in record stores may slowly be c
I think the days of selling CDs in record stores may slowly be coming to an end. I was at Borders yesterday and could not help but notice that a lot of their rack space was being taken up with DVDs and less and less space with music CDs. There are a lot of people that are questioning the whole way music is being performed, marketed and sold. The problem is the PRICE of commerical CDs is just too high. You can buy the DVD of a good movie for $14.99 with 8 or more hours of entertainment on it. You can purchase the sound track for that same movie for $17.99 with 48 minutes of music on it. It just does not made sense to the average consumer.
DVD players are down to $29.95 so anyone can afford one. There are less and less stand along CD players being made and trying to find a single play CD player for the home is almost impossible. With the introduction of CD burning programs like NERO the average consumer can make his own CDs for the car or the boom box from stuff he or she downloads (legally or illegally from the net) or from their own collections and burn a CD with just what they like to hear on it.
Someday that same technology maybe available for DVDs but so far it is not possible to make an exact copy of parts of a DVD and splice them together without a hefty outlay of cash.
I think we are in the midst of some radical changes in the whole way we produce and purchase music and I think it will forever change the whole music industry. Whether that change will be for the better of for ????? only time will tell
MTCW
I know the rock band- they sign a contract and record company re
I know the rock band- they sign a contract and record company released their brand new album.....but they didn't make any advertisements so the band got their album stored in shops .....and nobody bought it...becouse they didn't know the band.
Record company spend lot of money to promote their flag bands and give few coins just to stop them (my fellow band) messing around with their music. Now they are bitching and say that record company tied them.
Yes, I send all my 'radio friendly' aquaintances this link. They all have a their own laundry list of reasons why, while the article is valid and reasonable, it just doesn't take into account >their< particular situation/band/style, though it definitely applies to all the >other< fools out there trying to 'make it'...