x
anonymous 23 December 2004

Good day all,

I wondered what you mastering pros use to master vocals. Do you just use the things everyone knows (like CEP's EQ, compressor, etc), or do you have special mastering equipment (which makes that pro-sound we all know from i.e. the radio) that you use?

And is it possible to professionally master a track with just a random program (like CEP)?

Comments

Ammitsboel Fri, 12/24/2004 - 06:11

Cash wrote: Thanks for your concern. But thats some monster prices lol :shock:

Is there a way that you tell me some processes you used to use for, like rap? I know its a rather dumb question, but awell. :(
just if its possible... because then I'd be able to work with such a process as a guideline ..

There is no standart process.
The best thing you can do is to listen through all your EQ's and Comp's on your rap material and proper eveluate what you are going to use and why.

Ammitsboel Fri, 12/24/2004 - 06:52

Cash wrote: [quote=Michael Fossenkemper]Depends on what's needed. There is no set process. Just make it sound good.

Yeah, making it sound good is the goal, innit. lol

but I tried out every preset EQ in CEP, and it just wont sound good!! lol

There are several isues here, the EQ could be a bad one for the project and you shouldn't use presets.

Why do you use presets? -because you don't know what to do?
Rule nr. 1: If you don't know what to do then leave it alone, because if you don't you will only make it worse.

Maybe the best you can do is to just leave it alone?

anonymous Fri, 12/24/2004 - 07:36

Ammitsboel wrote: [quote=Cash][quote=Michael Fossenkemper]Depends on what's needed. There is no set process. Just make it sound good.

Yeah, making it sound good is the goal, innit. lol

but I tried out every preset EQ in CEP, and it just wont sound good!! lol

There are several isues here, the EQ could be a bad one for the project and you shouldn't use presets.

Why do you use presets? -because you don't know what to do?
Rule nr. 1: If you don't know what to do then leave it alone, because if you don't you will only make it worse.

Maybe the best you can do is to just leave it alone?

Yeah, I really kind of dont know what to do .. but when I EQ'd my tracks they at least sounded a BIT better... and definitely clearer. But it didnt sound half as good as pro tracks.

Massive Mastering Fri, 12/24/2004 - 10:18

Cash - Some ME's here might offer a "sample" service where you can send them a track and perhaps a blank disc and a SASE (Self-Addressed-Stamped-Envelope) for return.

Then, you can hear a more "finished" sample of what you have. Of course, examine and explore their websites for this info, and contact them directly. :)

But as mentioned, there are several... "Rules" isn't the word... "Guidlines" (THAT's the word!) when it comes to mastering. First and foremost, mastering your own mixes is akin to a plastic surgeon giving himself a kidney transplant. He may be medically qualified, but that's not his specialty. Add to that trying to do the operation in a verteranarian's office (with gear and surroundings of a lesser quality than one would want for such a critical operation).

And of course, the whole point of the mastering session is to examine what the mix may be lacking (if anything). For the mixing engineer to do this is to automatically second-guess yourself. The point is, once you've worked a project from recording through mixing, it's very hard to stand back and take in the "big picture" like someone who has never heard it before.

anonymous Fri, 12/24/2004 - 15:03

Would it also be possible to send one of you a short bit of an acapella and/or together with the beat (I duno if you need the beat) through MSN or something, and you try to "master" it, then send that joint back to me and tell me the process you used so that I can work with it on other tracks .. I know I'm asking for much, but it's just a question .. if not, then no problem.

anonymous Fri, 12/24/2004 - 21:47

Cash wrote: Would it also be possible to send one of you a short bit of an acapella and/or together with the beat (I duno if you need the beat) through MSN or something, and you try to "master" it, then send that joint back to me and tell me the process you used so that I can work with it on other tracks .. I know I'm asking for much, but it's just a question .. if not, then no problem.

That may get sticky.
giving you a sample of ones work is one thing, but proccessing one part of the mix & giving you notes on what &how it was done so you can use that same setting on the beat etc. wont work.
1.you don't have the same gear & more than likley it wont translate the same. ex. boosting 1khz +3db will sound totally different on most eq's
2. mastering is making judgmant call on the whole mix.
we might as well all do samples of the whole mix for you to deside.
Contact who you want off list.

IMO
If you really want to learn how to do this on your own. keep doing it & listen to the results on as many systems you can, mostly the car stereo untill you get the best you can get.
If you just don't want to spend the $$ on a pro( & let me tell you most on this board are very affordable). you may end up getting what you pay for....$00000.
Ed

anonymous Sat, 12/25/2004 - 18:10

Ed Littman wrote: [quote=Cash]Would it also be possible to send one of you a short bit of an acapella and/or together with the beat (I duno if you need the beat) through MSN or something, and you try to "master" it, then send that joint back to me and tell me the process you used so that I can work with it on other tracks .. I know I'm asking for much, but it's just a question .. if not, then no problem.

That may get sticky.
giving you a sample of ones work is one thing, but proccessing one part of the mix & giving you notes on what &how it was done so you can use that same setting on the beat etc. wont work.
1.you don't have the same gear & more than likley it wont translate the same. ex. boosting 1khz +3db will sound totally different on most eq's
2. mastering is making judgmant call on the whole mix.
we might as well all do samples of the whole mix for you to deside.
Contact who you want off list.

IMO
If you really want to learn how to do this on your own. keep doing it & listen to the results on as many systems you can, mostly the car stereo untill you get the best you can get.
If you just don't want to spend the $$ on a pro( & let me tell you most on this board are very affordable). you may end up getting what you pay for....$00000.
Ed

Nah, I'm just trying to get a process that I can use on my tracks so that the vocals sound more professional. Just trying to get heard, and then I'm gonna make a demo album so that I can get into the game more and more. Its not like I'm starting a label or something. lol.

anonymous Sat, 12/25/2004 - 18:24

From my experience.
The best process to get a pro vocal track starts with an experienced vocalist, then a quality mic, preamp, cables/connectors, & decent recording levels recorded flat with little to no eq/compression. (the last one is just my preference).
Keep it simple but with a quality signal chain.
ed

Ammitsboel Sun, 12/26/2004 - 04:44

Cash wrote: Nah, I'm just trying to get a process that I can use on my tracks so that the vocals sound more professional. Just trying to get heard, and then I'm gonna make a demo album so that I can get into the game more and more. Its not like I'm starting a label or something. lol.

If it's vocal sound you are asking about you should post over at the recording forum, I'm sure they can give you some advice there.

As to mastering there is no "solution" you can always put on your mixes that makes them sound great. Instead there is only hard work in form of learning your gear's do's and dont's so you can get better at knowing what to do with your mixes.
I will also strongly recomend that you get Bob Katz book: http://www.digido.com

Best Regards

anonymous Sun, 12/26/2004 - 05:34

Ed Littman wrote: From my experience.
The best process to get a pro vocal track starts with an experienced vocalist, then a quality mic, preamp, cables/connectors, & decent recording levels recorded flat with little to no eq/compression. (the last one is just my preference).
Keep it simple but with a quality signal chain.
ed

Alright... I think I got a high quality chain. But even though it doesnt sound professional at all.

anonymous Sun, 12/26/2004 - 05:40

Ammitsboel wrote: [quote=Cash]Nah, I'm just trying to get a process that I can use on my tracks so that the vocals sound more professional. Just trying to get heard, and then I'm gonna make a demo album so that I can get into the game more and more. Its not like I'm starting a label or something. lol.

If it's vocal sound you are asking about you should post over at the recording forum, I'm sure they can give you some advice there.

As to mastering there is no "solution" you can always put on your mixes that makes them sound great. Instead there is only hard work in form of learning your gear's do's and dont's so you can get better at knowing what to do with your mixes.
I will also strongly recomend that you get Bob Katz book: http://www.digido.com

Best Regards

Thanks for the advice.

TrilliumSound Sun, 12/26/2004 - 08:53

Hello,

If you have all good gear chain and it does not sound "professional" , I would suspect your monitoring system that has been used while tracking. It probably does not translate what it is really happening. Did you try to track the voice with good mic and pre straight and listen to it somewhere else as is ?

Greetings,

Richard

TrilliumSound Sun, 12/26/2004 - 09:08

Hi Cash,

I meant the monitors first. What I was trying to say is mabe your monitors (headphones) are not translating correctly what you actually record. So, you probably eq and tweek to make it sound good in your headphones but it results that the result in reality, is not right or sound the way you like.

If you record the voice straight, no eq, no comp and directly in the mic pre and listen to it in your car or anywhere else it should sound quite good. If it is not the case then, there is something wrong somewhere in the rec chain.

Hope this help,

Regards,

Richard

anonymous Sun, 12/26/2004 - 09:27

Alright, yeah thanks, it helps! Ive always been told to get me some monitors bcuz they give you the real sound, but however, right now I don't have the money for some .. I'm broke!! Lol.

But however, somehow my recordings arent as clear as some pro-recordings that we know from the radio etc. and they don't sound like those. And I don't know why... is it just the effects, or is it the EQing or what? I mean I got a pretty good mic, soundcard and preamp .. and they're supposed to give me specially a clear sound.

Massive Mastering Sun, 12/26/2004 - 14:21

The greatest gear in the world will only sound as good as what's in front of it (the talent). And the talent will only sound as good as what's surrounding it (the room).

Two of the most forgotten about things in the industry...

There are "levels" of this, but as a rule of thumb, a great sound will continue to sound at least "somewhat" great through less than wonderful gear.

A bad sound recorded through stellar equipment will make a stellar recording of a bad sound.

mixandmaster Sun, 12/26/2004 - 22:30

Cash wrote:
Alright... I think I got a high quality chain. But even though it doesnt sound professional at all...

Alright, yeah thanks, it helps! Ive always been told to get me some monitors bcuz they give you the real sound, but however, right now I don't have the money for some .. I'm broke!! Lol.

Not to be a pain in the ass, but if you're so broke you can't afford even decent monitors, I don't think you've got what most would consider a high-quality input chain. And if you don't have decent monitors, you won't be able to get things sounding good no matter what advice you are given.

anonymous Mon, 12/27/2004 - 04:51

mixandmaster wrote: [quote=Cash]
Alright... I think I got a high quality chain. But even though it doesnt sound professional at all...

Alright, yeah thanks, it helps! Ive always been told to get me some monitors bcuz they give you the real sound, but however, right now I don't have the money for some .. I'm broke!! Lol.

Not to be a pain in the ass, but if you're so broke you can't afford even decent monitors, I don't think you've got what most would consider a high-quality input chain. And if you don't have decent monitors, you won't be able to get things sounding good no matter what advice you are given.

Naw, since I bought my current setup I'm broke ..

anonymous Mon, 12/27/2004 - 15:31

Cash wrote: Good day all,

I wondered what you mastering pros use to master vocals. Do you just use the things everyone knows (like CEP's EQ, compressor, etc), or do you have special mastering equipment (which makes that pro-sound we all know from i.e. the radio) that you use?

And is it possible to professionally master a track with just a random program (like CEP)?

Ive been looking into mastering vocals myself,and the more I look into it,the more $$$$signs I see,I have learned one thing from the folks here at RO,you need top notch gear for good results ie:mic,preamp,compressors,and hole lot of expierence------------------I personnaly plan on going to a local studio to see how they do it.

Ammitsboel Mon, 12/27/2004 - 17:42

Cash wrote: ^ What do you mean? That I should have bought me mon's in the first place? Then I wouldnt have been able to record at all.

There is an old saying in danish that goes "you can't blow and have something in your mouth at the same time"

Witch basically means that you can't have less gear and expect pro resullts at the same time!

Michael Fossenkemper Tue, 12/28/2004 - 07:05

Cash,
if it were as easy as going to the local GC and buying a protools system and a mic, then there would be more great music then we can imagine to ever hear. But it's not that easy. Here are some steps to follow to become a great recording engineer. This is How about 90% of the ones out there became good.

1) Either go to a recording school or get a job sweeping the floor at a studio or both.

2) Convince a studio to hire you to run errands, empty the garbage, and help wrap cables before and after sessions. Do this for a few years.

3) become an assistant engineer at a studio working with engineers. This requires long hours and a knowledge of coffee. You do this for 2-? years.

4) slowly get engineering gigs at the studio working on stuff that is horrible and low paying. Apply all knowledge that you learned as an assistant from other engineers.

5) buy a pair of monitors that you can trust

6) finally get enough work as an engineer to warrant buying other gear.

7) become hugely successful as an engineer and then you can think about having your own studio and achieve professional results.

I may have left out this or that, like luck or being in the right place at the right time, but you get the idea.

I hate to tell you, but you could achieve stunning results with a good pair of monitors, a sm57, a mackie mic pre, and 4 track cassette recorder. This would of coarse be after you knew what you were doing. By skipping the above steps, you are no better than my grandmother with a mac and a mic. The only difference is, is that my grandmother has enough experience in life to know that she's not going to get great results. I don't want to sound harsh or disrepectful, but it's the truth.

Now the other 10% became good by hard work and listening for many many years. Plunking away in their bedroom on gear that they can afford. This is the most risky way of doing it because it takes a long time and you have no one to learn from, so you end up re-inventing the wheel about 200 times every week. So if you want to become a good recording engineer, the first thing you have to realize is that you aren't going to get it in a 1 paragraph post in a forum.

x

User login