Jay,

I can't say enough cool things about the 1272. Definitely my favorite pre. I think you will enjoy the top end alot.

That's funny...

...hope you're not a ribbon mic-fanatic.

The 1272 seems a 'must have' so...... :) you know what to do..!

Pick up an Amek 9098 stereo pre if you see one second hand (quite cheap often) - they have a jazz 'wow' or 'right there'/ present quality all of their own. Very 'quick' sounding...opposite of all your other pre's for sure.

:)

Hey Jay...give me a call at the shop. We have one of the 'production prototype' units for the Phoenix Audio DRS-2...I think you'll find it may cover your needs.

Jay

you might also want to try the John Hardy M-1 preamps, I find them to sound very open with a high end that works well with analog tape.

The 1272? Would that be the Vintech?
Ted

Check out the BUZZ AUDIO MA2.2

This dual pre is fast, pure class A,
Transparent, sort of in the vain of the solid state Avalon stuff like the M5 or AD2022

Very resonable price also.

Jack

Originally posted by Julian Standen:
The 1272 seems a 'must have' so...... :) you know what to do..!

Pick up an Amek 9098 stereo pre if you see one second hand (quite cheap often)

I know it's been brought up about a hundred times, but is the 9098DMA anything like the EQ/pre? I had a guy bring in a DMA and KM184's for overheads a few weeks ago and it sounded good. The times I've used the 9098EQ/pre I haven't been knocked out by the preamp.

Yeah, I'm thinking about the Vintech 1272's. Having a pair of 1272's seems to be a standard and I'm about to start flooding the indie labels for work so I'm trying to get those last pieces in place.

I've used the Hardy's a few times and I've always kind of liked them, but they don't quite have the brand name that Neve has. Still I'm wondering if I should get something that's quick and open like those.

I couldn't live without my personal Vintech and Brent Averill 1272 Mic preamps for bass guitars and electric guitars...nothing else does it for me that I have tried. They are both very similar sounding (although the Vintech is $500 less), so I assume a 1272, although a modified circuit, is supposed to sound like these units do, as both these companies make great product when properly made into a mic pre. I don't really think a Neve is dark, rich is more of a good word. The UA 2-610 was verging on dark...it seemed that the highs were attenuated, but I think the Neve is just more flat in the highs (maybe with a small bump in the mids?).

For Rock, the only place I use the clean pre's (Millennia Media & Great River...but they both have tranny's) is usually overheads and acoustic guitars...but I use tube or transformer based mics (or at least figure 8 if the others are being used somewhere else) so those mics aren't really very bright. I wouldn't want to couple something like an AKG 451 or Audio Technica (or anything from BLUE other than a pair of Cactus) with a clean preamp, it's just not my cup of tea as I find those too bright. I like flat (ie highs), I like rich (ie low mids), I think it works generally more than bright and clean for rock. But out of all the colored mic pre's I think Neve is king, with API running a close second.

Another thing you may want to think about Jay, is that people are trying to achieve what you already have naturally with tape (usually with a FATSO, Distressor, or Crane Song) when going to digital...so they want coloration on top of coloration (ie Neve-->Distressor).

So is anyone going to recommend the 1272's for acoustic and jazz stuff, or is it just a "rock" thing? I never track with EQ and compressor, partially from paranoia and partially,I have to bet, from ignorance.
What ought I to be after for just good natural sound? My solid state Pendulum pre's sound kind of dry and "flat against the glass". I'm hoping for something more dimensional...
Ted

"Dimensional" is only one way to describe the Neve. Neutral just isn't exciting to some people, some people desire that only. Everybody has their own preference for the type of music they record. For instance it seems Albini prefers Neotek pre's for rock, which are relatively neutral. I come from the school of coloration, where I really can't get enough of it. Jazz IMHO could really go either way, some guys like total accuracy...but old school jazz made with U47's, RCA ribbons and tape machines are very colorful and exciting. A Neve is going to sound great on acoustic guitar (with the right mic, just like any pre in any application). I just wouldn't want you to expect one thing and then get another. A Neve is like a staple to me, sort of like beer, oxygen, and sex (not necessarily in that order).

Jay,
I think you owe it to yourself to hear the
Great River MP2 (or 4). It's a lovely, present, full, and "true" preamp. I absolutely love it on electric guitar. I find that a big fat tube guitar amp and a fat pre amp can muddy the mix. I like the cleanliness of the GR with a super colored source. On very clean sources (acoustic strings, overheads, percussion) that you may want to remain clean, it still shines. I got mine used and I couldn't be happier. I'd like another so I can use one for overheads and the other for electric guitar during basics.
:D

hi jay,

which of your pres will you say you currently like the best. I am seriously looking at the vmp2 for a very rich, colored sound and I was wondering how it compares to your others.

I'd investigate Fletchers offer, if I were you...

The Amek 9098 - yes, same = good shit.. What eq could you use for overhead after it?

Vintech sound v f sencible option 4 U.

Pair of them on OH, rocking..

Does an indie lable really know what a 1272 is? Serously? I really doubt it. Come on! That's a 'Tape Op thang' aint it? They dont read that! - only nerds like us do!

Advertise the Vintech as 'Neve copies' in your brouchure.. F**k it, if everyone and their mother says it sounds like a 1073, you had better get a pair. Lets face it, what outboard EQ do you have? That is worth concidering.. Something else to twist with the pliars!
:)

I would tend to go with the Great river mp2- rather than the mp2-nv..if you want less color and more pristine. The mp2-nv is designed after the Neve color. I also use the vmp2 and fine it slightly colored,Then of course it has 6 tubes per side!! Best...Call Fletcher

Jay,

I have a pair of the Vintech 1272's and love them. I don't find them dark at all. Thick and aggressive is more what comes to my mind without smearing the high end. I also have a pair of the VTMP-2's. I would say they are a bit 'darker' than the Vintech's. I usually don't end up using the VTMP's on drums or guitar unless something softer is called for.

The only nitpick I may have about the Vintech is that if I really want to get a decent level to tape on quieter sources, they sometimes come up a bit shy in the gain department.

Chuck

Originally posted by Chuck Jopski / Summerhouse Sound:

The only nitpick I may have about the Vintech is that if I really want to get a decent level to tape on quieter sources, they sometimes come up a bit shy in the gain department.

Their 1272 is 50db, the X73 is 70 db of gain. I find that 50db is usable for 99% of sources...I usually find that if it's not, the source is extremely quiet and can never exceed that level of being extremely quiet - ie no dynamics (or watch the levels on the multitrack go crazy). YOMV.

Originally posted by CyanJaguar:
which of your pres will you say you currently like the best. I am seriously looking at the vmp2 for a very rich, colored sound and I was wondering how it compares to your others.

I don't know. The 672's and VMP-2 get used all the time for some of the same things. The Dakings are colored, but no where near as thick in the low mids and low end. They also feel faster then the others.

Originally posted by Julian Standen:
I'd investigate Fletchers offer, if I were you...

Advertise the Vintech as 'Neve copies' in your brouchure.. F**k it, if everyone and their mother says it sounds like a 1073, you had better get a pair. Lets face it, what outboard EQ do you have? That is worth concidering.. Something else to twist with the pliars!

I have a pair of Dakings, Orban 622B, and a pair of ASC's. Nothing really earth shattering but all very usable and solid EQ's. I did call Fletcher and we talked for a bit. It sounds interesting and I'm actually going to be in Boston in two weeks. Have you put your hands on the Phoenix piece?

I'm not expecting an indie label or client to know what a 1272 is. But some of them know the name "Neve" and while it's not a deal breaker it's probably a good thing to have around.

Part of what I miss about having my old slopped together 1272 wanna-be's was the weight and size that they added to a kick drum and things like guitars and bass. OTOH, I'm thinking that I should something faster (Neve's are big and slow, like a linebacker) and cleaner. It sounds like the Phoenix might have that covered but I'm wondering if it will have the same weight. What I'm afraid of is getting something that's in the middle of each and isn't clean enough an isn't big enough but doesn't totally suck. I'd rather get one big pre and one really clean pre. The Great River or Grace is on my list. One day I will own either one or the other. And a 1/2 dozen Distressors, and an API rack, and a 480L, and ...

While I'm thinking about it, has anyone used Averill's Neve 3415/3405 mic pres? He says they sound like the preamp of a 1081 which has always been one of my favorite modules on guitar and vocals. How do they compare to his 1272's?

At the risk of getting my head mangled for mentioning this too many times lately and being accused of working for the company or receiving some sort of financial benifit, I thought with all these other pres listed and the thread starter thinking of possibly going with more of a non-colored preamp, I thought I'd mention the DaviSound TB-6. It's at least something to consider... At that price for 4 pres, it'd at least be worth seeing if a color-less type of pre is what you're looking for. If not, I wouldn't be too surprised if DaviSound took it back if you came to the conclusion you didn't like it. Otherwise, I'd imagine you could easily sell it on E-Bay.

"Have you put your hands on the Phoenix piece? "

I have had one in my studio for a month

Have I tried it?

No.

Am I a moron?

Yes!

Will I try it?

Yes!

When?

Next week for sure..

Jules

Jay,

Nobody has ever said to me that an MP-2NV is dark.
I think it'd be the perfect compliment to your Dakings and the VMP-2.

But then I'm a bit biased.

I think when Jay said "dark and colored" he probably meant "dark and/or colored." The Neve breed of pre does indeed have a particular "color", and I agree that the color is anything but "dark". More like a bright, yellowish-green. The MP2NV IMO has just a tad bit more intensity in the green than the original Neve, but still clearly exhibits that sweet, milky taste.

Ok guys how does the Great River MPNV sound as a DI,particularly Bass? I really need a "gold"channel for Bass and I'm figuring Nv + Distressor may be my ticket.

Hey Dan since my last names is Rivers.. anychance on a discount :) ?

jimrivers

Quoting myself (a first for me, 'cuz it saves typing) today from another thread

(Dead Link Removed)

lukee,
I have gotten a pretty good sound using the MP2NV's DI on my Jazz Bass. It didn't sound all that remarkable when soloed, but when I engaged the loading and impedance, the bass just came into focus on a recent mix.
-dennis

Send me a note if you want the details.
-Dennis

Originally posted by Ang1970:
I think when Jay said "dark and colored" he probably meant "dark and/or colored." The Neve breed of pre does indeed have a particular "color", and I agree that the color is anything but "dark". More like a bright, yellowish-green. The MP2NV IMO has just a tad bit more intensity in the green than the original Neve, but still clearly exhibits that sweet, milky taste.

What if I ment both "dark and colored" and "dark or colored". Also, WTF does green sound like? I hate when people describe sound like that. Can you translate that to frequencies because my brain can't.

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs:
What if I ment both "dark and colored" and "dark or colored".Did you? You really think that Neve's are dark?

Also, WTF does green sound like? I hate when people describe sound like that. Can you translate that to frequencies because my brain can't.Actually, no, I can't. It's not even a matter of frequencies, it's a conglomoration of tonal characteristics, not neccesarily frequency based. When I use colors and flavors to describe sound, it's because my volcabulary is insufficient to convey the actual attributes. It's an expression of irony, almost like sarcasm. Even if I could describe the sound, it doesn't matter until you hear it for yourself. Sorry.

Maybe somebody who's better with words than me and has experience with the pre can offer a more scientific explaination? Did those colors make sense to anyone or does it sound like a pile of BS? hehe

Ang1970

I have a fresh Vintech 1272 that I am enjoying immensely. I think "green" is great way to describe it. I hear it a tad richer "green" than "yellowish-green", but "green" none the less. Smooth highs too.
Nice "shape" to it as well.

Dan-O

Oh I feel unwell!

:roll:

:D :D :D

"Yellow in this case is not so mellow, In fact I'm trying to say it's frightened like me, and all of these emotions of mine keep saving me from giving my life to a rainbow like you.
WE ARE ALL BOLD AS LOVE, JUST ASK THE AXIS, HE KNOWS EVERYTHING."
Henderix
Sorry I got nothing for green.

Actually I had understood the color comparison without a doubt until questioned... I get very frustrated getting colors out of the monitor speakers. Everything seems black and white (and grey). Frustrating. I always experience sounds visually (as well as aurally and tactilely) and use this to make all sound decisions, originally mostly tone choices for performance vocally and on various instruments. Yes I ate something funny, but it's been a long time and this is just how I experience sound. I'm sure Ellington and Hendrix and some others were definitely aware of the visual aspects.
Technicolor is one of the aspects of live acoustic sound that rarely makes it onto even the best recordings. Anybody dig?
Ted

coldsnow

Green Tambourine
Green Grass of Home
Green Eyed Lady...

Wait a minute...Oh... now I'm ill

Vintech 1272 is green ... I thought that was the Joe Meek? Was the "Woman in Red" recorded with Focusrite pre's or should it have been called "Woman in brushed aluminum finish"?

Have I got the wrong end of the stick here? Jules, I'm with you on this one. BTW, does anyone know if taking Dramamine with Prosac causes any side effects?

Greg

Originally posted by Recording Engineer:
At the risk of getting my head mangled for mentioning this too many times lately and being accused of working for the company or receiving some sort of financial benifit, I thought with all these other pres listed and the thread starter thinking of possibly going with more of a non-colored preamp, I thought I'd mention the DaviSound TB-6. It's at least something to consider... At that price for 4 pres, it'd at least be worth seeing if a color-less type of pre is what you're looking for. If not, I wouldn't be too surprised if DaviSound took it back if you came to the conclusion you didn't like it. Otherwise, I'd imagine you could easily sell it on E-Bay.

I just got a Davisound TB-6 over the holidays. I think it's a great piece for the money. Comparing to the GR MP-2M, in some situations it has a slightly higher noise floor (which doesn't surprise me being transformerless in my environment). It appears to have a similar noise level to the GR MP-2NV so far. Depending on the mic, the TB-6 can be a brighter sounding pre, with tight, if thinner, lows. I can't wait to hear it on drums. It's a different sound, and I'm very happy about that.

If I ever get more funds for preamps, I want to investigate the API offerings. 8 preamps down, 8 to go...

Graham

Graham,

Glad to hear you too took the risk... Yes, I too think you hear what your mics sound-like when using the DaviSound "Mic All" pres (the pres in the DaviSound TB-6). I use the DaviSound TB-3 compressor which has the same pres in it; it's what I use on the majority of the tracks when over-dubbing.

Please let me know what you think of your TB-6 on drums as that's where I feel its strength is; with its high +32dBV headroom and "real life" speed, needed for drums. I myself can't wait to try the Mic-All pres around the entire drum set! It won't happen until year's end though!

By the way, I JUST noticed this new page is up on DaviSound's website; I found it to be a rather good overall educational light read:(Dead Link Removed)

By the way, I'm sure interested in hearing some recordings once you gotten a chance; if you'd like to share. If you're interested in hearing 1 or 2 songs I've done with my TB-3, please just let me know.

Weston Ray
Weston House Recording
Orangevale/Sacramento, California
United States
jwbros@hotmail.com

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs:
I've noticed recently that almost all of my mic pres are dark and colored. I have a VMP-2, Telefunken V672's, Dakings, a Presonus MP20 and a Joe Meek.

I've got the dark green (actual color, not sound description) Daking 52270. It would never occur to me to describe it as dark - I use it a lot when I'm looking for an aggressive edge. Is my particular unit an anomaly? Anyone else find it "dark"?

Nah, the Daking isn't dark but it is colored.