Cool tune.
My 5 year old thought it was poopy.

I would tame the overheads a bit, they seem a bit bity to me.

Vocals are a little hot for my taste.

But, over-all it sounds good becuase the production compliments the arrangement, which by the way, is a disappearing art.

Good job!

Chris

ok, thanks for listening!!
8-)
ehm the overheads are bity, so you mean the cymbals are to loud?
in both of the tracks?
how about the overall eq?
:)sorry if im eating away your time lol

anyone wanna give the tunes a listen??
pleaaaseeeee....

First song - Sounds good , I would tame the drums a little. I like the vocals.... I would maybe use a little delay on the guitars just to fill it in a little bit. or put another track of guitars underneth just to give it some more thickness.

good job.

2nd song.. Same for guitars during the verse- use some delay..

during the chorus - maybe double up the guitars.

Other wise - great job. I like the dymanics !!

thanks for the input!
although i have doubled the guitar-parts (two takes) i agree that the guitars should have more of a 'double' feel for thickness.
thanks again!

i like your band (assuming this is your band) and the only thing i find undesireable is i can't hear the kick drum possibly it was ur intention however not all like pounding kick. guitars are also a tad thin as mentioned by some others but this is some cool stuff and i'm liking the production.

thanks!
its great to have second opinions on stuff!

oh and this is indeed my band.
i can put an url up sometime if you like

I only listened to the first track...

1. The sound is quite clear, so none of the tracks are aggravating each other, but, this isnt necessaraly a good thing, cause it doesnt have a completely blended sound. Try to add some dynamic symmetry as to where you place the tracks in the stereo mix.

2. The drums have a real nice sound to them, they just dont have a good mix. Try to place different parts of the drums in different parts on the stereofield. This will add dimension and fullness to not only the drums but it will help bring together everything else.

3. The guitars..... not so impressed :(. first of all, im not a big fan of the overall distortion or "original" sound of the guitar. But thats just my opinion, I prefer a bit more of the brown sound ball crunch. But either than that, try a WIDER setereo mix for the guitar tracks. But make sure they are all on exactly the same time, or it will make the guitar sound twangy.

4. Vocals, not too shabby, just add a little high quality reverb just to blend it into the song.

Overall, its nice and clear. It just lacks fullness in the dynamic mix. Just try placing things dynamically ie. (in different parts of the stereo field, and in relation to the other instruments).

ElGrizzle wrote: I only listened to the first track...

1. The sound is quite clear, so none of the tracks are aggravating each other, but, this isnt necessaraly a good thing, cause it doesnt have a completely blended sound. Try to add some dynamic symmetry as to where you place the tracks in the stereo mix.

could you explain a little as to what you mean by 'dynamic symmetry'? thanks for listening, first off!!

2. The drums have a real nice sound to them, they just dont have a good mix. Try to place different parts of the drums in different parts on the stereofield. This will add dimension and fullness to not only the drums but it will help bring together everything else.

ok. the drums are recorded with 2 overheads and just a snare and kick mic. so i cant really space things.. only thing i can think of is panning the OH-mics hard left&right, but i already did that.. should i delay one of them to create a wider stereo image?? any tips on how to create a bigger stereo image with just those 4 tracks? (so, 2 oh's, 1 snare, 1 kick)

3. The guitars..... not so impressed :(. first of all, im not a big fan of the overall distortion or "original" sound of the guitar. But thats just my opinion, I prefer a bit more of the brown sound ball crunch. But either than that, try a WIDER setereo mix for the guitar tracks. But make sure they are all on exactly the same time, or it will make the guitar sound twangy.

ok. actually im quite happy with the guitars as they came out. they sound just a little different from what i usually have live or in the rehearsal room.. (its a 'london-city' tube-head,4x12, and an SD-1 pedal, all played by a jazzmaster, so its not the usual distorted/overdriven guitar-sound i guess....)
one thing: what do you mean by: 'make sure they are all exactly on time'? you mean, i shouldnt put a slight delay on one side?? thats what i did, but maybe it'll sound better without..

4. Vocals, not too shabby, just add a little high quality reverb just to blend it into the song.

you're right

Overall, its nice and clear. It just lacks fullness in the dynamic mix. Just try placing things dynamically ie. (in different parts of the stereo field, and in relation to the other instruments).

thanks for the listen!!

Ok, I guess first off I will explain "dynamic symmetry".

Lets look at the "stereo field" in which all of the tracks are placed. If we incorperate dynamics into the stereo field, that means we are placing things in many different places. Now if we add symmetry into the equation, that means that all of these dynamics are "somewhat" equal on the left and right side of the stereo field.

Now for the drums. 2 OH, 1 snare, 1 kick. With the OHs try placing them quite wide, but remember the dynamic part (dont place them anywhere another track is on the stereo field). So you could have one of them left 35, and one right 35, but make sure non of the other tracks are left 35 or right 35 so they dont cancel each other out.

A good tip for the snare is to duplicate the snare track, take the original one, and place it right by like 5 (not much, you want the snare to sound in the middle) and take the duplicate track and place it left 15, but turn it down so you cannot hear it too much, so the middle snare at 5 sounds alot "fuller" because they are working together on the stereo field.

So dont forget that you can duplicate tracks and put them on the stereo field in interesting places (just turn down the volume of the tracks that you duplicate). That is an excellent way to add dynamics keeping within the context of a symmetrical mix.

So try duplicating, and placement on the stereo field. you can have alot of fun duplicating the guitars and putting them in interesting places. There are so many possibilities, just try to keep a BALANCED mix.

I hope that helped.

ok thanks for the explanation.
i kinda figured you meant that, but i didnt know it was called that way.
also, cool trick on that snare-panning. i'm gonna give it a try!
i hope it wont get in the way of the rest of the stuff too much..
i also uploaded a newer version of the 1st song, the guitars got a little wider and i put a little delay on the solo-note stuff (as suggested by someone, thanx!) amongst other little changes.
i'll probably put another song online tomorrow, maybe i'll post it here if anyone is interested. (and if theyre not, ill do it anyway cuz i need advice)

thanks!!

this is the updated version.
http://student-kmt.hku.nl/~thomas2/pre-mixjes-OM/emptypackageII.mp3

and a new one:
http://student-kmt…

(dont pay attention to the names, a little misleading...

Not too bad.
I think the bass guitar on ceg302 could do without the reverb though. I like the panning of the fx guitar though, how it swoops around the channels. Definitely a good mix. Try panning the overheads a little more L and R. Just my taste but I like wide separation on drums. Sometimes I even pan the overheads hard L and R. Maybe a little less reverb as well. Dryness isn't necessarily a bad thing. In recording I mean. :)

the OH's are already panned hard left-right
oh and the bass is indeed a little on the wet side.
i routed it through the drum's reverb-bus, just to 'glue' the bass&drums together..
maybe a little less will do

oh, and thanks for listening!:) 8-)

bump...
anyone?

Dude the mix sounds awesome now, you have improved well. The only thing I would do now, is clear up any extra noise caused tracks that are loud together in the same area.

Think of it this way, you want it to sound blended, but only in the mix, which you have achieved, but it is also blended in the sense that you have lost some of "dryness" or originial clarity of the first mix.

The only way you want to get a blended sound is through effective use of the stereo mix, not through reverbs. Reverbs should be used to highlight certain instruments in certain parts of the song, and should be avoided on two tracks at once. Although it is suggested that you have a soft reverb on the vocals through the whole song. Its also cool to add delay on the vocals in certain parts of the song, to go with the music.

In this mix, you used the stereo field effectively, but there is some blurred sound left from the guitar reverb over top of the other tracks. This is where you are getting excess white noise, thus specific sounds are blocked out, lessening the clarity of the overall sound and individual tracks. Just try to use the reverb dynamically, placing it only in certain areas.

great advice:)

you were talking about the first song right??
just to make sure

anyway; thanks a heap

Hi,

Song 1:
I think the vocals are a bit over-compressed. I would also brighten them up a bit - I'd try to put HPF (start at 120Hz and sweep up if needed) and/or add (shelving/notch) at around 15kHz.
The guitars in my opinion are alone on the extremes, creating a mix which is hard L/C/R with holes between these areas. I'd try to add subtle individual reverb to each L/R but pan the reverb return C-L and C-R respectively.
The guitars, by the way, sound awful in mono and lose all the high frequencies.
The drums sound a bit weak to me, I'd try to compress the OH (or the drum bus) or layer a compressed copy of either under the original.

Song 2:
I like the snare sound in the first part, but when things get noisy towards the end, the snare sound changes and it sounds pretty bad to me. The toms are also a bit buried.
Same mono problem with the guitars.

In that occasion I should also say that I completely and thoroughly disagree with what was said before:

The only way you want to get a blended sound is through effective use of the stereo mix, not through reverbs. Reverbs should be used to highlight certain instruments in certain parts of the song, and should be avoided on two tracks at once. Although it is suggested that you have a soft reverb on the vocals through the whole song. Its also cool to add delay on the vocals in certain parts of the song, to go with the music.

If it's not clear why, I'll explain later.
Hope I've been helpful.

re songs

I like the recordings, it reminds me of the blood brothers, but I'm not digging the reverb on the cymbals, I liked the sound of the vocals how they are, I like the compressed sound, I think it goes good for this music. I think that the mix needs to be thickened up a little bit, (glued together). The high hats are too loud I think on the first song too.

What mic/pre did you use for your vocals?

ok i'll reply to the two of you:
Roey:
i have no clue as to why the guitars would loose high freq. in mono.. probably phase issues.. but i cant see why.. but: thanks for mentioning, i;ll work it out.
about that compression on drums: the drums already have a (hugely) compressed second layer under them. maybe i'll tighten the whole up a little, cuz it sounds kinda artificial sometimes.

as mentioned before; i cant really change the way the toms sound, as i hae only miced the drums up with 4 mics.. only way of bringing out toms is by eq on the overhead.. do you know another way?
about that snare sound in the noise part: yah youre right! i noticed it too.

also: please explain why you dont agree on the reverb-stuff
oh, and you have been helpful! thanks for listening!!

BOBBO:

first off, thanks for the comparison, i like blood brothers
youre right about the glue thats missing in the mix, its all a bit loose now..

about the mic/pre:
strangely, we used a Sennheiser 602 (kick-mic)
for the vocals.
it went through a Midas-mixer-channel's pre (with an Alesis 3630 for compression)
then routed through another channel-pre with another 3630 (for limiting)

the reason i recorded it compressed, is because i think i have no plugin-compressors that sounded as good as the 3630 in this particular situation. also, it gave me a lot better recording level than without the 3630's.

it's a strange combination, but it worked.:)

Regarding the guitars:
It is a phase problem, check it in mono, and maybe phase shifting one guitar track will help; if not, nudge one track by few milliseconds till it works in mono (by the way, exactly the same thing happens with Nirvana's Smell Like Teen Spirit - so if Andy Wallace didn't mind about this so can you...).

Regarding the drums:
I would boost the second layer, usually when you do such things they don't sound right at first, but when you listen the day after it starts making sense - try flipping back into a listener perspective as opposed to a mixing engineer perspective (ie, listen to the track without analysing the mix).

Regarding reverbs:
Reverbs are one of the most important tools in mixing, mainly when dealing with stereo image and depth. The truth is that nearly every acoustic production has 2 artificial reverbs (most commonly on vocals and snares) alongside with at least one natural reverb - from the overheads. All strings will have reverb in some form; acoustic guitars (usually natural); Electric guitars; brass, synths - you name it!
With electronic music some productions might have 5 different reverb effects in use, many of them will be heard at the same time.
Some people even add a subtle amount of reverb to the stereo mix (try to put a stereo mix through a nice plate reverb, and boost up the return until you hear a change - then take it down a bit and switch the returns on and off, see if you like it).

My point is that if you are using the right presets from the right machines (anything that costs treble than your monthly rent or above) and you know how to tweak reverbs, and you know how to treat the returns (frequenciespanning) - you can utilise few of them at the same time to achieve better mixes. A restriction such as using a reverb on one track at a time is futile.

I also don't understand statments such as:

The only way you want to get a blended sound is through effective use of the stereo mix

'Cause if the meaning is panning, I would say that here is another misconception.

ok i get your point about that reverb

about the guitars: funny thing is: i tried flipping the phase on one side of the guitars' stereo-bus, and, strangely, it cleared things up considerably. i might post a sample sometime. i also checked in mono, but it didnt seem to do much to the sound, other than a little change in the bass-frequencies... but, then again, who will listen this stuff in mono??
im gonna try some of that reverb-tips, thanks!

Roey wrote:
...
My point is that if you are using the right presets from the right machines (anything that costs treble than your monthly rent or above)....

Roey,
sorry but i didnt get what you were saying there??? (my english is not really great too:))