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GZsound 29 November 2001

I'm interested in finding mastering software that won't break the bank. I have looked at Sonic Solutions SonicStudio HD but there seem to be no retailers selling it. I also looked at T racks and a couple of others. I'm using a PC with Sonic Foundry Sound Forge and Cool Edit now. What I need is a good two track mastering program...and advice or suggestion would be appreciated.

Comments

Jon Best Sat, 12/01/2001 - 10:36

Depends on what you mean by breaking the bank- if you even *thought* about the ($10K+, I think) Sonic Solutions setup, then virtually everything else would be cheap...

Sequoia is starting to make it's presence felt as a viable native based, high end mastering setup- that, plus a Waves Gold Bundle, plus computer, would set you back probably $6K, unless you already have the computer. You could probably do with the similar Samplitude 2496 if you can handle the slightly less flexible crossfade editing and a couple of other little things, for under a grand (vx. 3 for Sequoia software). Wavelab is a good program, as well, although I think it's a little clunky. On the Mac side, get Adaptec Jam or Emagic Waveburner Pro, and use Bias Peak or TCWorks Spark for editing and processing.

Other people use other things- I know people who have set up Logic Audio to work as a mastering application, and I frequently end up doing processing in Digital Performer. I'm looking to switch to Samplitude/Sequoia, if that's worth anything, mostly for workflow reasons. The most important thing is to try a few to see what works best for you.

Originally posted by GZsound:
I'm interested in finding mastering software that won't break the bank. I have looked at Sonic Solutions SonicStudio HD but there seem to be no retailers selling it. I also looked at T racks and a couple of others. I'm using a PC with Sonic Foundry Sound Forge and Cool Edit now. What I need is a good two track mastering program...and advice or suggestion would be appreciated.

GZsound Sun, 12/02/2001 - 07:23

Thanks for the help. I actually have found a lot of information in the last week. Software that costs a thousand dollars or more is "breaking the bank" to me.

I have checked out Waves products, Isotrope Ozone, T-Racks, and several others. What I have found out is T-racks is getting pretty good reviews although it is a stand alone program and not a plug in. Waves is way too expensive for my use. I am going to try out DB-Audioware's Direct X plug-in programs which are only a few bucks each and see what I can do with them. I will more than likely get T-racks shortly.

I already get a pretty good product with the software I have installed on my computer (Sound Forge and Cool Edit) so I'm just trying to see if I can gain some small improvement with small investment.

Thanks.

Attached files Serp settings.pdf (818.3 KB) 

anonymous Wed, 12/05/2001 - 04:51

If you already have DAW software, these can often double as mastering suites (Logic and Nuendo come to mind, but others can work as well).

Also, check out PSP's vintage warmer. It's a Dx/VST plug in. I've just tried this on a session, and first results are very impressive, though it does lack dithering options. Soundwise, for mastering compression/limiting and tone "shaping" it's a lot of bang for the buck.

GZsound Thu, 12/06/2001 - 23:11

Thanks for all the great advice. While I'm waiting for more dollars to flow in, I purchased a neat program called db-M from db Audioware (db-audioware.com). It was $39.00 and is a Direct X plug in. I'm using it with Cool Edit and it seems to work pretty neat. It's a three band limiter/compressor with assignable bands, solo per band and so far no distortion at all as far as I can tell.

I haven't tried Ozone or T-Racks yet but both have had a lot of recomendations.

Thanks again..

anonymous Thu, 12/13/2001 - 13:02

I realize that you are on a budget (aren't we all?), but don't forget - You get what you pay for!
I checked out T-Racks some time ago and was NOT impressed. Somebody else mentioned the PSP Vintage Warmer. I have the demo and I like it alot. I am having a little bit of trouble with it in shaping the bottom end, however, but it really does sound great. I have also checked out Ozone. It has some pretty cool features - like the RTA view - but I was less than ecstatic at the sound. Maybe I haven't given it enough time. You might also check out the plugs from SonicTimeworks.

atlasproaudio Fri, 12/14/2001 - 17:51

Originally posted by Jon Best:
You could probably do with the similar Samplitude 2496 if you can handle the slightly less flexible crossfade editing and a couple of other little things, for under a grand (vx. 3 for Sequoia software).

I love Samplitude. I do basic editing with light mastering mostly for in house projects and a few that just come to me for just mastering. I haven't tried Sequoia, but it is probably really great. My only complaint is that it should support Native VST, but I assume that will be here in V. 6.1.

anonymous Fri, 12/14/2001 - 20:07

I tried Ozone and wasn't impressed with it either. I've been using Samp 2496 and Wavelab, both are ok, but if you are on a budget and already have Cool Edit, my suggestion is to upgrade it to Cool Edit Pro. The addition of the hard limiter is worth the upgrade, it's excellent as is the noiseprinting. With the addition of some DXplug-ins TC, Waves Gold Bundle, SEK'D plugs you will have a cheap but viable basic mastering set-up. De-clicker and noise reduction algorithms leave a bit to be desired IMHO, best to go with Cedar for restoration.

anonymous Mon, 12/31/2001 - 23:53

I switched to a Mac a couple of years ago. Before that I was I was using Steinberg's Wavelab for mastering on my PC with Waves C4 and L1 plugins with great results. Wavelab will let you stack up to 6 plugins and audition, has some real cool two track editing features (Audio Montage) dumps the CD layout to a text file, burns with most CD burners, does MP3's, etc. . .

http://www.steinberg.net/products/ps/wavelab/wavelab3/index.phtml?id=030106&sid=01746864

anonymous Sat, 01/12/2002 - 14:28

I just encountered the most amazing thing.

It's a free piece of MacOS software called Mastering Tools - a stand alone aimed at turning your pre-master into a master. Judging by the controls it's written by someone who really knows about mastering. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to work on my files (but hey, Logic Platinum doesn't _always_ work, and I was running several other things at once.)

Anyway, it's worth a look, especially as it's free
. I'm posting the VersionTracker reference, so you can see what other reviewers have said about it, along with the author's specification.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://versiontrack…"]Mastering Tools on VersionTracker[/]="http://versiontrack…"]Mastering Tools on VersionTracker[/]

anonymous Sat, 01/12/2002 - 21:01

Brad -

In a previous post, you mentioned 3 things that a good mastering setup should have, one of which was the ability to cut masters directly from within the host program.

Question:

Is this just for simplicity's sake? Or is there some data issue involved? Since I am not in the same market as you guys, I have to use a much more modest setup (Sound Forge/Vegas/CD Architect).

Also, is there a way to check whether or not your system is delivering good bit accuracy?

Thanks for the help.

anonymous Mon, 01/14/2002 - 20:08

Brad -
Thanks for the reply. OK, I'm about to show my true mastering colors....green......

And if the designer has taken the time to include the option to cut *masters* (not just TAO discs, for example), then they've probably minded their P's and Q's (pun intentional .

Please explain: what is a TAO disc?

Also, I don't know of any 3rd party software that will do a bit accuracy test. Do you have any suggestions?

thanks.

Attached files NDA-Chris Bialuski.pdf (35.3 KB) 

anonymous Tue, 01/15/2002 - 08:21

TAO -

Duhhhhhh, I knew that. I guess I just don't use the term enough for it to stick in the front of my memory. (My bad)

So, if a program burns Redbook Audio CDs, does that automatically mean that they are DAO CDs? In other words, does DAO ==> Redbook Audio?

I just thought of another question:
Any idea why you can transfer CD Track IDs via a S/PDIF connect but not via AES/EBU (XLR)? Doesn't make sense to me especially since AES/EBU is the "Pro" format.

homerg Fri, 01/18/2002 - 07:08

I've used Sound Forge, T-Racks, and ProTools for mastering and here is my 2 cents worth. I'm going to assume a couple of things. 1. You're using PTLE. 2. You can't afford the high dollar plug-in suites (Waves, Bomb Factory,...), 3. You don't have a lot of experience mastering, yet.

ProTools will actually work - mix down to 2 mono files left/right and import back into PT, add a stereo limiter and compressors to taste, maybe a little EQ to liven things up. ProTools has a tendency to sound a bit hard though depending on yourplug-ins

T-Racks' selling point is that it will add analog warmth to your digital mixes. I find T-Racks is great for rock music, soft jazz, latin, anything that is a pretty organic genra of music. It also comes with some pre-configured suites (compressors/limiters/EQ) to get you close to a mastered sound. I find myself creating more and more of my own suites as I get more familiar with it. It's great for the money. I got it used for $140. Search http://www.Harmony-central.com for sales. I personaly like the fact that it's a stand alone application. Breaks the monotomy.

SoundForge is OK but I found it a little limiting in it's sonic sculpturing ability. The interface is OK but not great. It's great for editing though. I use it quit a bit for editing the final mixes before I master. It's real cheap at http://www.bestbuy.com/software/Detail.asp?m=1023&e=11062048
I hope this helps.

GZsound Sat, 01/19/2002 - 06:53

Thanks everybody for the wealth of information. I think what I have learned is that if I spend more time getting the mix right, the mastering process becomes less important. I have also learned over the years that to simply throw money at a problem does not guarantee results.

A good multiband compressor/limiter and a good multiband EQ seems to be all I need. I have discovered I am using software mostly for cleaning up tracks, fade in etc. and not for large adjustments of overall paramaters. As far as "getting what you paid for", I keep hearing about all the hit records that used an SM57..do I have to buy a Neuman to make a hit record? Do I have to have Pro Tools? I think it's ears and ability to get what you want with what you have.

For now I'm going to keep running my mixes through my analog board and outboard equipment and use the computer for final touches. As long as the final product stands up well against big budget CD's, I'll spend the money on beer.

Thanks all.

anonymous Wed, 01/23/2002 - 17:36

Originally posted by Mark Totton:
Hi there,

You say you have checked out Ozone, but not what the result was. If you are thinking of buying T-Racks instead, I would suggest you download the demo for Ozone and give it a proper try. I have both programs and have completely stopped using T-Racks since I got Ozone!

Mark ;)

hey Mark, what do you like better about Ozone? I've used T-Racks because I find it to be the only digital comp that can really give some balls. The limiter is also pretty darn good, and the overall sound is warm. tell me about Ozone

anonymous Fri, 01/25/2002 - 11:59

John,

Go to http://www.PSPAudioware.com & download the Vintage Warmer demo. Give it an honest try (it takes a little bit of extra time to figure out all the controls) and see if you still think T-Racks is the only way to go.

Personally, I have found the PSP VW to beat both T-Racks & Ozone, hands down. The VW does an excellent job of handling the transients while still providing much boost, has multi-band compression & brickwall limiting AND adds true warmth & thickness as well as sparkle to your mixes. Try it out!

Attached files NDA-Chris Bialuski-signed - signed (1).pdf (332.5 KB) 

anonymous Sat, 01/26/2002 - 15:25

Originally posted by On-Track Recording:
John,

Go to http://www.PSPAudioware.com & download the Vintage Warmer demo. Give it an honest try (it takes a little bit of extra time to figure out all the controls) and see if you still think T-Racks is the only way to go.

Personally, I have found the PSP VW to beat both T-Racks & Ozone, hands down. The VW does an excellent job of handling the transients while still providing much boost, has multi-band compression & brickwall limiting AND adds true warmth & thickness as well as sparkle to your mixes. Try it out!

Holy shit Jeff!! I downloaded the VW demo and tweaked around with it for a few hours. I can't believe it. I think its amazing. I'm sold. When I mix I go both to Masterlink and to 1/4 inch deck. I almost always go with the deck mix, but with the VW I could almost get a very convincing 1/4 inch deck result with the Masterlink mix. Wow. I'm going to track some drums to my 2 inch and then straight to the DAW this week. I'll see how close I can get to the tape sound by using the VW on all of the drums.

anonymous Sat, 01/26/2002 - 17:40

Pretty nice, huhh?! One of the major selling points for me (besides its awesome sound), was the way it handles the transients. I also have the Sonic Timeworks Mastering Compressor and have found it does a good job on some material, but when it limits, IT LIMITS!! All the peaks are no longer, they are turned into mesas (not Boogie). With the PSPVW, I zoomed all the way in on the waveform view at the most susceptible clipping points (ie. kick/snare hits, etc.) where the wave looks heavy, and found ALL the peaks to still be fully intact - NO CHOPPED PEAKS!!! Amazing! I think this characteristic is what gives the VW its punchy, transparent, sparkling sound.

lorenzo gerace Sun, 01/27/2002 - 07:13

Hi

Speaking of mastering software, I'm looking for a good, dedicated audio burning software (on PC), capable to deliver professional quality, Red Book Standard CDs; I used to burn with Sonic Foundry CD Architecht, but Sound Forge 5.0 doesn't support it anymore. Apart From Sonic Solution and SADiE, what are you using?

Thanx

anonymous Sun, 01/27/2002 - 12:50

I, too, use SF CDArchitect. When 5.0 came out, I elected NOT to go with it but kept 4.5. Instead, I do my mastering in SF Vegas. This gives me Non-destructive editing & real-time fades (which cannot be done in either version of Sound Forge) plus the ability to load-in, edit & master in high-res. When I'm ready to build the master CD, I just render the file down to 44/16 & open the file(s) in CDA & build the CD file.

I understand that Sonic Foundry is going to implement Redbook CD burning capability into the new Vegas Audio version (3.0), whenever that comes out.

anonymous Mon, 01/28/2002 - 11:12

Hi, my name is errol.
a short introduction of what I do.
We are a mastering company and project studio.
We do around 1200 masters a year.
We have a high end room for the "real thing."
with sadie systems and nice outboard gear.

For budget compilations we have a couple of systems with wavelab.

I'm very impressed with wavelab I never had problems with my masters.
It's cheap (comparing with sadie or sonic solution) As a matter of fact I like it more then my sadies.

I don't know how all these other programs are in a real production. That means every day productions.
But I asure you that a combination with a PC, good soundcard RME) and no office 2001
or other not related software will work without any problems.

errol

anonymous Mon, 01/28/2002 - 19:43

I didn't mention that my DAW is stripped of everything but Win98SE, Norton SystemWorks & all my audio programsplug-insetc. I have had VERY FEW system problems.

I don't see any reason for 4.5 & 5.0 NOT to work side by side. I loaded the 5.0XP version on at one time (until I discovered it won't do high-res. - so I nuked it) and it seemed to work just fine w/4.5 already installed.

Personally, I wouldn't even mess w/5.0. I would rather spend the money for the latest Vegas Audio. The only thing you stand to gain from 5.0 over Vegas is the wave draw tool & other tools such as Spec. Anal. (which you already have in 4.5). Vegas gives you Non-destructive editing & real-time fades + multi-track capability (I use this all the time when my dance studio clients come around wanting multiple cuts from various CDs edited together to form a routine) + you will be able to add effects easily to different portions of audio (even if they overlap) & preview the result in real-time - which you cannot do in a 2-track editor.

I cannot speak for Wavelab. I have only played w/the demo for about 30 min. I could not easily find how to burn a CD from it. I have heard that it supports Redbook CDs. (?)

lorenzo gerace Tue, 01/29/2002 - 02:29

Thanx for the reply.

Which version of Wave lab is the one you're using?
I heard that it's capable of burning CD's in Red Book standard: that's the feature I'm looking for; I usually do my mastering within Pro Tools, so I'm just looking for a software to import the finalized master files and burn them on CD, a little more audio-dedicated than Nero: I know this is not top notch mastering, and I rely on a specialized facility when I need to, but as you said, for on a budget projects I need something suited to this quality range. I'm running my audio applications on a dedicated machine, so no internet, no Office, no nothing exept audio software, so I think that wouldn't be any troubles with compatibility.

Thanx again.

lorenzo gerace Tue, 01/29/2002 - 09:05

Hi errol

I downloaded the demo version of Wavelab 3.0 from the web site, but I got into some trouble with the burning as it doesn't recognize my burner (though it's supported in the burners list); I'll take some time with it and find out. There's also a 3.04 patch that should do it, i'm going to try. Thank you so far for your infos. :)

lorenzo gerace Wed, 01/30/2002 - 08:58

Hi

I was also considering the purchase of a dedicated stand alone CDR W like Sony CDR-W33 (or 66) or Tascam CDrW500 or HHb CDR Plus to create the master CD with the finalized files; this would be a little more expensive, but I think that the quality would be better in the end; anyone has experience with one of these or similar? How do they rate compared to a standard mastering software (say Wavelab) and a stock PC CDRW combo?

Thanx

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