You can play the song repeatedly, adjusting the fade times until you have what you want, then burn it to CD. You can do both fade-ins and fade-outs. There are also a few different kinds of fades - linear, log, etc.

If you're interested, the Masterlink manual is available in PDF format from the Alesis website. You can download it [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.alesis.c…"]here.[/]="http://www.alesis.c…"]here.[/]

Originally posted by Skeetch:
You can play the song repeatedly, adjusting the fade times until you have what you want, then burn it to CD.

And don't worry if you don't have any talent, engineering chops, or skills! They have machines and plug ins for that now! :roll:

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
Woods,
What is wrong with doing a fade the old fashioned way? You are using an analog mixer so that you can use the analog outboard ala’ “old school”, so just grab the fader and do a fade.. Forget all that auto fade crap! Geeze! It's just one move! How lazy can you get? Kurt

Kurt, make it two moves, the master fader goes down and the amount of reverb goes up. The sound will disappear in the distance.

Peace, Han

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
And don't worry if you don't have any talent, engineering chops, or skills! They have machines and plug ins for that now! ;)

The ML is just another tool. Like most any other tool, it can be used as an effective enhancement, or a means to make a piece of the process more efficient. It can also be used as a crutch. Where one draws the line between the two is a mileage thing.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of plugins or PT.

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
And don't worry if you don't have any talent, engineering chops, or skills! They have machines and plug ins for that now! ;)

The ML is just another tool. Like most any other tool, it can be used as an effective enhancement, or a means to make a piece of the process more efficient. It can also be used as a crutch. Where one draws the line between the two is a mileage thing.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of plugins or PT.

Originally posted by Skeetch:

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
And don't worry if you don't have any talent, engineering chops, or skills! They have machines and plug ins for that now! ;)

The ML is just another tool. Like most any other tool, it can be used as an effective enhancement, or a means to make a piece of the process more efficient. It can also be used as a crutch. Where one draws the line between the two is a mileage thing.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of plugins or PT.

To my minds eye, it's a totally different thing. Real word dynamics (150dB+)require that we use compression to transition into the limited dynamics of the recording medium (100dB). If you had a recording system that was capable of recording and reproducing a signal of 160dB I would agree. Still compression is use not only as a means of squeezing real world dynamics into a limited dynamic range medium but also as an artistic tool to shape sound in a way that is not possible with eq, like a highly compressed guitar sound. So it's not a good analogy. As I said previously,

What is wrong with doing a fade the old fashioned way? You are using an analog mixer so that you can use the analog outboard ala’ “old school”, so just grab the fader and do a fade.. Forget all that auto fade crap! Geeze! It's just one move! How lazy can you get?

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:

To my minds eye, it's a totally different thing. Real word dynamics (150dB+)require that we use compression to transition into the limited dynamics of the recording medium (100dB). If you had a recording system that was capable of recording and reproducing a signal of 160dB I would agree. Still compression is use not only as a means of squeezing real world dynamics into a limited dynamic range medium but also as an artistic tool to shape sound in a way that is not possible with eq, like a highly compressed guitar sound. So it's not a good analogy.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I also think the talent being able to properly control their own dynamics - within certain limits - still plays a significant role in this. Obviously, a raging gtr cabinet can't be controlled in the same manner an experienced vocalist can control his or her own dynamics.

As I said previously,

What is wrong with doing a fade the old fashioned way? You are using an analog mixer so that you can use the analog outboard ala’ “old school”, so just grab the fader and do a fade.. Forget all that auto fade crap! Geeze! It's just one move! How lazy can you get?

Hmm, yes. That again. I wasn't going to make too much of it the first time because, in part, I agree with it. However, I will say this.

"Just one move" of a fader on a low end DAW isn't necessarily the same thing as that same move on a nice analog console. It isn't necessarily a lack of engineering chops or laziness. Not all of us have the luxury of having the time and/or opportunity to work with old school gear. It's not that we don't want to - hell, I'd LOVE to have an all "old school" setup - but we've made our choices in life and we do this recording thing as an hobby - sometimes an obsessive one at that. But guess what. Some of us really do care about bringing the life back into music in whatever small ways we can. We know our gear isn't in the same league as that of the High Priesthood but we still want to do the best we can with what we've got. I'm under no illusion that my very modest home setup is going to turn out something that sounds like it came out of Oceanway. But that doesn't stop me from trying. I know some newbs or amateur's come in here with a 'tude that runs contrary to that. However, I think most of us come here to learn from those who have more experience in the hopes that we can make better sounding music. What we DON'T come here for is to be insulted. No offense, but I respectfully submit that your comment above would have been more at home over at Home Rec, not here.

Just because someone uses a tool like a Masterlink doesn't automatically mean they have no chops, no talent or rely on plugins. I don't think your intention was to insult anyone, but it kinda came off that way.

I, in no way, intended that as being an insult. I am simply saying that robotized fades are a lazy way of approaching the task. I feel the reliance on this type of thing is self perpetuating and at some point no one will be able to make a move, without a machine doing it for them. Also if you will read the thread from the beginning (if you haven’t already) you will se that this comment is being directed to Woods, who has an analog console. The reason Woods has an analog console is that he wants to mix old school techniques into the modern digital recording process. In this context, the comment is completely appropriate.

I myself, am working in the DAW environment and I have absolutely no problem doing a manual fade on my system, with the mouse. I admit I use automation and so once I have written the move it is there and is performed automatically, so in some ways you could say it is an “auto fade” but to me it’s still a completely different thing. I just think auto fade features on DATs and Masterlink type products are the epitome of “cheese”.

What we DON'T come here for is to be insulted. No offense, but I respectfully submit that your comment above would have been more at home over at Home Rec, not here.

I really don’t see that anything I said was insulting. I take no offense, I have learned a long time ago that this is just internet and many time comments can be misconstrued because of the inability to see ones body language or facial expressions. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Most who know me, know that when I insult someone, there is no doubting they have been insulted. I’m not very good at saying things subtlety.. :tu: Kurt

None taken.

I just have a bad habit of asking alot of questions about things.

I don't necessarily want to do fades in the Masterlink if my fades have already been done during the mixdown from the board. But, there is always a possibility that after something is on the Masterlink's hard drive (post analog fade) you might (you just might) want to snip an additional second or two or three.

So I was just wondering how destructive that process is in the Masterlink? For instance (for anyone who has experienced it) is the DSP fade (even if only the last 3 seconds of the song) as audibly obvious over the entire song - as the Masterlink's DSP EQ over the entire song?

woods

Woods -

On the rare occassions that I've used the items in the ML's DSP menu, I didn't find them "destructive" at all. They may not be suitable for every situation or song but then no tool ever is IMO. The EQ section allows you to adjust three different freqencies as well as their respective boost/cuts, Q's, etc. The user interface is somewhat clumsy for all of this, but useable once you get the hang of it. I typically prefer other outboard EQ's but, like I said, I didn't find the ML's EQ to be destructive. Just different.

I'll also reiterate that, on the occassions I've used the ML's fades, I didn't find them destructive either. They were smooth, performed exactly as described in the manual, and sounded just fine to my ears. Anyway, one data point from a bottom feeder.

Skeetch - who, in real life, is NOT a plugin! :D

I've been gone and this is still going on.
I use a Masterlink for storage only if I'm going to the mastering lab. If I'm making a rough for someone I will use the volume adjust to level the songs.
As far as fades I quit doing tops and tails. I leave em raw and do it at the mastering lab. I can hear it better there and redo it if I don't like it. It's hard to redo a top if it's wrong (late) with out going back to the desk. Why not just leave em raw and see how it all feels together at the lab.

Holly Smokes, I am so confused now!!!

I am currently mixing a rather large project (40 songs, 2 CDs) and have been useing the Masterlinks analog ins, comming from my Trident -65 console to Manley Massive Passive EQ then The MU to Masterlink.

I seem to of expirienced a truck load of inaccuracies (forgive the dis-lex-e-ah!) , particularly w/ the volume or "peak" reference, which I thought was hyped when transfered to a red book CD and played on a variety of players.

I am worried by some of the comments here, that the "Materlink" has some serious sonic flaws, of which seem to degrade material comming from the master source. I agree though, it is a wonderful storer and organizer! I am sure for all us "Joe six packs" , that the Masterlink has been a great improvment from the DAT!

Now I suppose I will have to consider mixing the 2nd CD of this album ("Purple Iron Hat") with an analog 1/4 inch two track!

This consummer B.S. has really got me flinched! What to do, what to do?!

Just wondering if anyone has ever gone direct out from the Masterlink hard drive into outboard dithering and then into an external CD recorder?

If so, did you detect any improvement over burning a CD internally in the Masterlink?

Thanks,
Woods

Woods,
Why don't we elect you to do this test and report back to all of us your findings.
I think we all can see there is a great interest in this post. Let us know how you did it and what equipment you used.
I for one would love to know the results.
Larry

Woods,
Got your note and I'll try a few test for you.
Larry