Pickngypsy wrote: I've got a fire pod and want to be able to make my bands live recordings sound better.

I go directly into the fire pod and use the direct outs of the fire pod into our mixers line inputs, since the presonus preamps sound so much better than our mixer.
I only have cubase le that came with the fire pod and i don't really like it so far. It doesn't seem like it is the right software to record my band. We play a kind of hard hitting asoustic blend of jazzy bluesy gypsy revergrass music.

I am confused on the whole spdif, adat, compatibility with pro tools and cubase. I don't want all that midi and looping stuff, I just need to make it sound real.

Take note of the bold statement. If you think that statement is true you need to learn ALOT more before you begin evaluating software or the sound of preamps. Simple as that. Cubase will record your band fine, even though I have no idea what "revergrass" music is.

~S

If you have a Mac, I'd Go Logic. takes a bit of learning but is a very well structured work station. Otherwise Nuendo? Both laid out well, though you sound like a bare bones pro-tools Guy....So Change Hardware IMO

Cheers

thanks for teaching me that i have alot more to learn.

But the preamps on the fire pod sound awsome compared to my mixer.

I imagine the presonus preamps are probably better than your mixer, depending on what kind of mixer it is. While there are certainly better preamps available than what you have, you should be able to make decent sounding recordings with them.

As far as software, these days most DAW software is more than capable enough to do the job you are describing. What you need to do is poke around and see what works best for you in terms of workflow; that's really where the differences are these days.

One suggestion: I've never tried it (I use Sonar) but a lot of people are talking about Mackie's Tracktion because of its simplicity.

You'd think I could leave this kinda thing alone, but I can't. I'm sick. I have a condition.

Pickngypsy wrote: I've got a fire pod and want to be able to make my bands live recordings sound better.

Then ditch the firepod and buy a truck, cram an 8086 in the back of it and a Studer. Or...tell us what it is about your recordings that you don't like. Frankly, these two sentences don't even go together. It's like saying "I've got zebra seat covers and want to be able to make my car go faster".

Pickngypsy wrote:
I go directly into the fire pod and use the direct outs of the fire pod into our mixers line inputs, since the presonus preamps sound so much better than our mixer.

Erm...ok. Why? You mean to then mix the live PA from those TWO channels? Because, ya know, the firepod is supposed to hook into a computer via the firewire cable (hence the name). So I have no clue what the mixer or its preamps have to do with your recordings. Forget them. They certainly won't help us answer your questions. You'd be helping us help you by describing the setup in a good bit more detail.

Pickngypsy wrote: I only have cubase le that came with the fire pod and i don't really like it so far. It doesn't seem like it is the right software to record my band. We play a kind of hard hitting asoustic blend of jazzy bluesy gypsy revergrass music.

So what is it you don't like about Cubase? Do you feel like the software doesn't match jazzy, bluesy, gypsy, revergrass music? Or, could it be that you might just not know how to use it well enough yet? My advice on software would be to hammer the thing as hard as you can. Keep pressing F1, keep RTFM-ing. If you can tell us where you're running into problems we can probably help. But your problem is most CERTAINLY not your jizzy jazzy fizzy fuzzy crabgrass music. Bits is bits, Cubase don't know Al DiMeola from Al Yankovic.

Pickngypsy wrote: I am confused on the whole spdif, adat, compatibility with pro tools and cubase. I don't want all that midi and looping stuff, I just need to make it sound real.

S/PDIF stands for Sony/Phillips Digital InterFace. It's a format for transferring digital audio. Simply put, THEMS IS SOME OUTPUTS WHAT'S GOTTA GO INTO A DIGITAL INPUT IFFIN YA NEED ONE. Iffin ya don't, don't worry about them. ADAT is an Alesis recording format, which is also another semi-widely used standard for transferring 8 channels of digital audio. Again, don't fret over those. Same story for the MIDI. Of course you don't need it. So pretend it's not there.

Another question. What is it you mean by "real"? If you can describe what you hear that you don't like then somebody here can probably help you fix it. If you can't describe it, you probably can't fix it.

I suggest you find someone who knows what they are doing and pay them to either educate you or record you. Or both. Once you have a basic understanding under your belt, come back. I think you'll find a world willing to help if you show up here not wearing a badge of ignorance. :shock:

Holy Crap!! You guys really like to rip into newbies.
(':twisted:')

Pickngypsy - As far as Audio recording software you're not going to notice a difference in sound characteristics between software. As far as the Firepod goes; it is more than adequate. If you want a different sound then study up on micing techniques and experiment. If I were you I would stick with Cubase LE. Get good (quick and comfortable) with tracking your band then editing. Forget about the stuff you don't need like midi, and adat etc.
Study/Experiment then upgrade your gear. Eventually you'll have the ability to create excellent recordings.

You have to crawl before you walk.
Good Luck

Samplitude has a new version out - Samplitude SE for $49. Would be worth checking out - has an upgrade path like no other if you decide you want to get in deeper.

lk wrote: Holy Crap!! You guys really like to rip into newbies.
(':twisted:')

Actually, those posts "ripping into" the newbie will probably at least help him in some way. I responded to his original post in what is probably the more common way - reading it, shaking my head in wonderment, and moving on without any response at all. And he'll probably learn more from being ripped up than from being ignored.

Gilliland wrote: [quote=lk]Holy Crap!! You guys really like to rip into newbies.
(':twisted:')

Actually, those posts "ripping into" the newbie will probably at least help him in some way. I responded to his original post in what is probably the more common way - reading it, shaking my head in wonderment, and moving on without any response at all. And he'll probably learn more from being ripped up than from being ignored.

It you guys think this is "ripping" you need to get out more. I went real easy on the goober.

~S

TheRealShotgun wrote: [quote=Gilliland][quote=lk]Holy Crap!! You guys really like to rip into newbies.
(':twisted:')

Actually, those posts "ripping into" the newbie will probably at least help him in some way. I responded to his original post in what is probably the more common way - reading it, shaking my head in wonderment, and moving on without any response at all. And he'll probably learn more from being ripped up than from being ignored.

It you guys think this is "ripping" you need to get out more. I went real easy on the goober.

~S

I can vouch for this.

Shotguns teaching methods are untraditional but they work.
Plus, as long as you’re not on the receiving end, they are fun to read.
*I am speaking from a personal experience*

rip away. I really didn't explain my first post clearly. sorry. no really i am.
but not really. I have a buddy who knows alot about recording. kind of. He went to SAE in nashville. He helps me out with mic placement and mixing. I still need something else though.

I am a newbee, but sometimes i get lucky and it sounds pretty good.

therealshotgun wrote
Erm...ok. Why? You mean to then mix the live PA from those TWO channels? Because, ya know, the firepod is supposed to hook into a computer via the firewire cable (hence the name). So I have no clue what the mixer or its preamps have to do with your recordings. Forget them. They certainly won't help us answer your questions. You'd be helping us help you by describing the setup in a good bit more detail.

and if you really are the REAL shotgun you would know My band plugs their instruments and their mics DIRECTLY into the firepod. so the two channel's you are speaking of is something you made up so you could sound COOL. and you are.
This may be bad, I don't know, but it does record onto my computer, and it doest sound better on the recording and live doing it that way, rather than plugging into the mixer and using the mixers direct outs.

i dont' know if you know this or this is obvious or what, but when i firwst bought the fire pod it could not me used the that way. i had to download a firmware upgrade from presonus. and that allows the firepod to be used with or without a computer for the preamps. it has 8 line outputs on the back. so i just set the levels and the gain structure and press record. thats all i know. then i try to mix it down when i get home.

thanks for the feedback though, all of you. negative or posative, i aprecitate it. tell me i am wrong if I am, please.

Pickngypsy wrote: rip away. I really didn't explain my first post clearly. sorry. no really i am.
but not really. I have a buddy who knows alot about recording. kind of. He went to SAE in nashville. He helps me out with mic placement and mixing. I still need something else though.

I am a newbee, but sometimes i get lucky and it sounds pretty good.

[quote=therealshotgun wrote]
Erm...ok. Why? You mean to then mix the live PA from those TWO channels? Because, ya know, the firepod is supposed to hook into a computer via the firewire cable (hence the name). So I have no clue what the mixer or its preamps have to do with your recordings. Forget them. They certainly won't help us answer your questions. You'd be helping us help you by describing the setup in a good bit more detail.

and if you really are the REAL shotgun you would know My band plugs their instruments and their mics DIRECTLY into the firepod. so the two channel's you are speaking of is something you made up so you could sound COOL. and you are.
This may be bad, I don't know, but it does record onto my computer, and it doest sound better on the recording and live doing it that way, rather than plugging into the mixer and using the mixers direct outs.

i dont' know if you know this or this is obvious or what, but when i firwst bought the fire pod it could not me used the that way. i had to download a firmware upgrade from presonus. and that allows the firepod to be used with or without a computer for the preamps. it has 8 line outputs on the back. so i just set the levels and the gain structure and press record. thats all i know. then i try to mix it down when i get home.

thanks for the feedback though, all of you. negative or posative, i aprecitate it. tell me i am wrong if I am, please.

Ok, that's a little more info. When I read your post I was unaware that a firepod had direct outs for all channels, rather, I thought it only had the two main outputs. And no, I didn't make it up you little shit, I read the fucking manual for your equipment before I attempted to answer your question.

Of course, using only a stereo out would be a jackass way of running a live PA. But again, it's completely irrelevant to the sound of your recordings. The fact is you're using the firepod as it should be used for the recording and that's all we need to know.

It still doesn't explain what it is you don't like about your software, which was your original question.

~S

TheRealShotgun wrote: ...I didn't make it up you little shit, ...

you just gotta love this guy:)

your reallyright about therealmanual for therealfirepod it reallydoesn't say anything at all about therealdirectouts. really.

no seiriously though, that was cool to actually read the manual before sounding like a jackass. you were reallyright. It doesn't mention the direct outs al all in the manuall, i mean nothing. I called presonus and the stoner that answered the phone and all his stoner buddies couldn't tell me what they were for. they had no clue. But if you search every inch of the website you can find a download the enables those jacks to be used as direct outs, with or without a computer attached. which i think is a great feature, becaouse for the money, for what i know, which isn't much according to you, i think the preamps sound great. for the money.

the software? i don't know. i just don't like it cause i don't know how to use it i guess and i can't get the reverb to sound good. and it only comes with 4 effects and the eq is limited. 4 bands, i have some mics, that when recording live, i need to notch out a few more than 4 frequenies. and it is expensive to upgrade, and i could be totally wrong and it could be the bestestist software on therealplanet.

Pickngypsy wrote:
the software? i don't know. i just don't like it cause i don't know how to use it i guess and i can't get the reverb to sound good.

I think you've nailed the head right on the hit, there, vaginaface. What you'll find is that once you learn the interface and the process flow, you'll probably be just fine with the software. Furthermore, you're not going to be able to do any better on any other software. It's not like there's a program out there with a "sound fucking awesome" checkbox you can enable and forget about. You should try a little RTFM-ing yourself.

Pickngypsy wrote:
and it only comes with 4 effects and the eq is limited. 4 bands, i have some mics, that when recording live, i need to notch out a few more than 4 frequenies. and it is expensive to upgrade, and i could be totally wrong and it could be the bestestist software on therealplanet.

There you go giving head to the hit nail again, Mr. Festering Fuckpimple Milquetoast III. What you've just learned here is the heartbreak of live recording. It's not going to sound like studio recording, unless you use studio-quality gear, a separate set of mics, some great outboard and, the secret to all good live recordings: lots of in-studio overdubs. If you find yourself trying to notch out (or even notch in) bands upon bands of EQ to a track that's a good indication that you used the wrong mic, the wrong mic position, or both (the room and/or bleed notwithstanding).

Additionally, the reverb isn't ever going to sound worth half a fuck, ever. Ever. Not unless you record in a nice sounding echo chamber or spend a gob of cash on either a hardware box or some really high-priced plugins. Whatever reverb probably came with your software, I'm guessing, is probably a budget model and probably sounds like ass. It may even have a knob labeled "ass" whereby you can add MORE of the built-in ass sound.

So how do you GET a live recording that'll make your dick hard with your momma watching without buying a semi trailer full of gear and an engineer that doesn't drool on himself to run it?

I'll tell you if you ask nicely.

In the meantime, why don't you try doing some recording at practice using normal, everyday recording techniques and see how that works out for you?

~S

ok tonight at practice i shall record. We really like recording live, or at least all be playing together ( at the same time). That is another problem. But i can still get that to sound way better than live. you know, since there is no sound renforcement or monitors, and a better room, i'm sure. We just don't like the to do the one track at a time thing. i'd like to try it, but the other members of the band refuse. but it would be hard, there is a lot of communication with eye contact, and we never play a song the same way twice.

But what is the secret to a live recording that'll make your dick hard with your momma watching without buying a semi trailer full of gear and an engineer that doesn't drool on himself to run it?

and yes i do thing there is a knob called "ass" on the reverb.

but my uncle who lives in europe has a program with a "sound fucking awesome" checkbox, but he dosn'e have a phone or the internet or an adress, so i can't ask him what it's called. He also knows the ancient art of ninja. and he'd kick your ass.

please

Pickngypsy wrote: ok tonight at practice i shall record. We really like recording live, or at least all be playing together ( at the same time). That is another problem. But i can still get that to sound way better than live. you know, since there is no sound renforcement or monitors, and a better room, i'm sure. We just don't like the to do the one track at a time thing. i'd like to try it, but the other members of the band refuse. but it would be hard, there is a lot of communication with eye contact, and we never play a song the same way twice.

Here's what you do to fix all that. First of all, you can still play all at once when you're tracking. Just understand that you're going to go do overdubs for the parts that suck. Or, just get real fuckin good so everyone can be "on" in the same take.

How to get that good and fix that "never the same way twice" crap? Here's what ya do: Get you a bag of marbles. The glass kind like I used to play with when I was just a little popgun. Now cram the whole bag's worth in your mouth. Every time you guys play a song together RIGHT, spit out a marble. By the time your mouth's empty, you might just be worth a damn.

Pickngypsy wrote:
But what is the secret to a live recording that'll make your dick hard with your momma watching without buying a semi trailer full of gear and an engineer that doesn't drool on himself to run it?

So, what'cha do is this...and you're gonna have to buy a COUPLE pieces of gear, but nothing too outgrageous. First of all, you need two more firepods, if you can daisy chain them. You're gonna need plenty of tracks. Now, ya mic up the drums individually and send all those into the PC and back out to the PA, fine. Then you do the same to the vocals. Does the drummer sing? If so, tough shit. Make sure that even IF you let him have a monitor, point it away from EVERYTHING. Then, make sure you pull the same shit on the squawkers up front. Aim the monitors at anything you want, just not at those mics. Also, while you're at it, take one of your faggy little schoolfriends along to the gig. Set up an XY stereo pair of mics in the audience area. If you can get it dead center between the PA stacks, great. If not, put it whereever you can. Have your faggy friend agree that he'll UTTERLY FUCKING KILL ANYBODY WHO GETS NEAR THE STEREO PAIR. That means any smartass that wants to walk by and sing or yell CHECK! into the fuckers as well as any drunk shitstabber that decides that gravity is just TOO burdensome and wants to succumb to its siren call at just the wrong spot on earth. Take along a guy who is big, dumb and loyal. Convince him that those mics are his balls and that he should protect them as such.

Next thing you need to buy are a couple DI boxes. Cheap ones are fine. Put one on every instrument. You got a couple git-fiddles and a bass, right? Any keys? Whatever. DI everything. Even the guitars. Take the signal clean. Mic the cabs and send that directly to the mixer for PA-ville. Don't record the mic'ed sound. Fucking don't. DI all the guitars, the bass, and keys if you got 'em.

Last thing you gotta buy is a reamp box. Kinda like a DI in reverse, but not really. When you get home with your tracks you first mute out the instruments and spend a day or two cleaning up the mic'ed tracks. Gate them as much as you can to clean up bleed and so forth. The voxes will have an assload of cymbal. High-pass that shit at 7k or something if it doesn't kill the vocal too bad. Lower if you can. Gate it either way. Anything you can't clean up sufficiently with gates you're going to have to do manually. READ YOUR MOTHERFUCKING SOFTWARE MANUAL. Learn how to edit tracks to clip out all the assfucking and pussystroking between words of the vox. Also figure out how to get that HONK ASS snare sound out of the drum overheads. Or, alternately, use that sound and figure out how to get the DIFFERENT HONK ASS snare sound outta the other 8 mics. Pay attention that you don't clip a decay tail off too abruptly and pay even closer attention that you don't fuck up an attack. Re-read my thingy on compression if those two words don't mean anything to you.

Now you can work on the instruments. Bring up the bass track with the drums. It sounds sizzly and it doesn't disappear when the kick hits, right? If not, make it be that way. A little EQ around 4k should be handy for EITHER the kick OR the bass, but not both. Experiment. Keep your hands off the compressor at this point.

Now, save everything and go out to the kitchen and make a sandwich. You should be about 5 hours into this process by now and you probably need some protien. Don't use too much cheese or you'll be all stopped up and you won't be able to think about mixing because you'll be too preoccupied with just how good it'd feel to take a big ole steaming dump.

Then, go back to the mix room. You're ready to tackle the guitars. You're going to want to pipe each one out separately into your shiny new reamp box and plug it into an amp in another room. Set the track to auto-repeat while you go tweak the amp to sound about twice as thin as you think it should. I mean it. When you get done tweaking that amp, if you don't think to yourself "I'm a huge, gaping stinkhole for how this sounds" it's too heavy. I don't care if you're Cannibal Corpse, it's too heavy. Then mic it up. Spend some time moving the mic around and going back into the other room and listening to it. Make it sound sweet by moving that mic. Sweet, yet still pussified. Record that to a separate track.

Do the same with all the guitars.

Did I ask if you had keys? If you do, bring those up and see where they sit. Probably don't need to do much to keys, keys suck as a general rule. Key players are all fags, too. I know a guy in LA, helluva Hammond player. Big fag though. Dude's name is Bubba. Anyhoo...

Now you got all that shit done and you're goin "Fuck, this sounds good...MOM! COME LOOK! MY PEE-PEE IS THICK!" Now comes the heartbreak. Set up a good(er) mic and retrack the vocals. What about all that track cleaning you just did? Total waste of time. Yeah, I knew that when I told you to do it. So fuckin what, it's free advice, you get what you pay for.

Retrack the fuckers I tell you.

Now you can start adjusting your mix, sweetening your sounds, EQ-ing shit, adding a compressor or two here and there. We're hoping to GOD you don't have any clipped tracks. If you do, and they're not clipped TOO bad, like just a hit here and there, copy and paste some sounds to fix it. If the kick sounds like a skipping fart record, then, well, at least you didn't waste any tape. Move on to the next song. Cry later, bitch, the clock is running.

You did remember to set up an XY stereo pair didn't you? Bring those up last. EQ them either pretty thin, or pretty muddy. If you don't like one, try the other. I prefer thin, myself. Then, delay those two tracks somewhere on the order of 5-60 ms depending on how far from the PA they were to start with. Just drag them forward in time by a cunt hair or two and see what you think. If it sucks, undo it. In fact, drag them UNTIL they suck, then back up one step.

Pickngypsy wrote:
and yes i do thing there is a knob called "ass" on the reverb.

You probably also have ass-less pants don't you?

Pickngypsy wrote:
but my uncle who lives in europe has a program with a "sound fucking awesome" checkbox, but he dosn'e have a phone or the internet or an adress, so i can't ask him what it's called. He also knows the ancient art of ninja. and he'd kick your ass.
please

Thing about ninjas is...they did fine against the samurai, but they're still not bullet proof. Either way, ain't ya ever heard of CARRIER PIGEONS ya fuckin simp?

will this be any easier if i told you we don't have a drummer.

I told you what kind of music we play.

everyone knows that rootscootin rivergrass don;t need drums.
we're a stringband, the percussion is on the strings. no keyboard, no drums, just strings, dobro, guitar, mando, banjo, and a contra bass viola.

o yea does anyone know a good way to mic an upright.

and about the

How to get that good and fix that "never the same way twice" crap? Here's what ya do: Get you a bag of marbles. The glass kind like I used to play with when I was just a little popgun. Now cram the whole bag's worth in your mouth. Every time you guys play a song together RIGHT, spit out a marble. By the time your mouth's empty, you might just be worth a damn.

that is a good thing. if i wanted to play a song the same way everytime, i'd record it once and quit music. we improvise and we comunicate to keep it interesting. so take your glass marbe/little scoolboy fantasy and keep it to yourself.

I love the idea of retracking/ micing th guitars again, but i don't think that aplies with acoustic instruments. I am not trying mic the sound of an amp. I trying to mic the characteristics of an acoustic instrument. live.

It is probly impossible.

we play live with 3 different setups depending on where we play.
the bass is always a pickup the world pickup.

1. three condencer mics. one large diaphram for vocals, two small for instrmet solos, and they all pick up the rhythm great, and we take care of the levels and the dynamics by knowing how far away to be from the mics, depending on how loud we are playing.
that works fine for quiet places, no background noise, and no need for us to be loud. those recordings sound pretty good just the way they are, ror the most part.

2. everyone using a pickup, and a mic.. for their instruments. and vocal mics. we just blend the pickup sound with the mic sound. we can get a little louder, and it sounds much harder hiting, more punch, with the pickups being blended in.

3. and when we need to be so loud every one in the building, or park can not hear anything but us, we use just pickups, and vocal mics.

probably should have mentioned that way earlier. but it is free.

when you retrack the vocals do you throw out the old track, i dont get. it is miced once, why mic it again.

Pickngypsy wrote: will this be any easier if i told you we don't have a drummer.

I told you what kind of music we play.

everyone knows that rootscootin rivergrass don;t need drums.
we're a stringband, the percussion is on the strings. no keyboard, no drums, just strings, dobro, guitar, mando, banjo, and a contra bass viola.

o yea does anyone know a good way to mic an upright.

and about the

[quote=Shotgun]How to get that good and fix that "never the same way twice" crap? Here's what ya do: Get you a bag of marbles. The glass kind like I used to play with when I was just a little popgun. Now cram the whole bag's worth in your mouth. Every time you guys play a song together RIGHT, spit out a marble. By the time your mouth's empty, you might just be worth a damn.

that is a good thing. if i wanted to play a song the same way everytime, i'd record it once and quit music. we improvise and we comunicate to keep it interesting. so take your glass marbe/little scoolboy fantasy and keep it to yourself.

I love the idea of retracking/ micing th guitars again, but i don't think that aplies with acoustic instruments. I am not trying mic the sound of an amp. I trying to mic the characteristics of an acoustic instrument. live.

It is probly impossible.

we play live with 3 different setups depending on where we play.
the bass is always a pickup the world pickup.

1. three condencer mics. one large diaphram for vocals, two small for instrmet solos, and they all pick up the rhythm great, and we take care of the levels and the dynamics by knowing how far away to be from the mics, depending on how loud we are playing.
that works fine for quiet places, no background noise, and no need for us to be loud. those recordings sound pretty good just the way they are, ror the most part.

2. everyone using a pickup, and a mic.. for their instruments. and vocal mics. we just blend the pickup sound with the mic sound. we can get a little louder, and it sounds much harder hiting, more punch, with the pickups being blended in.

3. and when we need to be so loud every one in the building, or park can not hear anything but us, we use just pickups, and vocal mics.

probably should have mentioned that way earlier. but it is free.

when you retrack the vocals do you throw out the old track, i dont get. it is miced once, why mic it again.

I went back and re-read your original post and I'm fairly confused. I didn't pick up on the "acoustic" part of the jizzy-fizzy-buzzy-grassy music. I also don't know the difference between "house" and "trip-hop", though.

So your desire is to (1) make your live recordings sound better, (2) determine whether or not cubase is really the "software for you" and (3) eschew MIDI for more real-sounding recordings.

(1) Well, contrary to my previous promise, you're pretty much stuck sound-wise. You can either buy alot more shit and do the live recording right (including having an engineer on hand) or you can not. Your best option is to use all pickups, take those direct into the recorder (which ixnays your preamp sound fetish, but no biggie) and try to aim the vocal mics for maximum isolation. Past that, you'll have to tell me what about your recordings you don't like and we'd have to go into specifics.

(2) Cubase is fine, don't give it a hard time.

(3) Again, at this point, you'll have to tell me what doesn't sound "real" if there's any way I can make any guesses on how to fix it. Examples would even be better.

~S