what platform do you use?? PC / MAC ?
what do you do most?? recording? audio? midi? lot' of plugs? etc??
do you want to stick to digi hardware?? (i wouldn't!!)

i am a die hard MAC / LOGIC user, strong in midi and audio and for production / softsynth plugs...
to me that's plug 'n' play

axel wrote: what platform do you use?? PC / MAC ?
what do you do most?? recording? audio? midi? lot' of plugs? etc??
do you want to stick to digi hardware?? (i wouldn't!!)

i am a die hard MAC / LOGIC user, strong in midi and audio and for production / softsynth plugs...
to me that's plug 'n' play

I am a mac user and i would prefer a tascam fw-1884 but i have heard that "protools is so much better"

hugh, that is a very difficult one, pro tools is for shure a good product, but in my eyes far to expensive.

if you are on a mac i would go DP (digital performer) or Logic Pro, logic is very strong in the midi department, probably the most advanced prog in that respect and does everything audio you whish for, as well, and comes with a whole lot of plugs and synths in a reasonable quality to get you going through an entire production. (even it takes a bit to get your head around logic, but it's well worth the learning curve IMO, it's so powerfullllll..........)
both are stable and powerfull, however.

i don't like cubase at all, and it is not performing very well on a mac.
sequia is great too, but PC only...

i wouldn't spend the bucks on digi stuff, only because "everyone" is using it.

but that's just my 2two cents...

logic... mhh... tasty

check it out yourself, if you can. i don't know about the states, but in the UK most pro dealers have DAWs set up for testing apps. hands on...

clay wrote:
I am a mac user and i would prefer a tascam fw-1884 but i have heard that "protools is so much better"

ProTools is just that...Pro Tools. The majority of "professional" recording studios use it.

The FW-1884 is just a tool to be used with a DAW like Cubase, ProTools, Logic etc.

The best advice I can give is to find a DAW that does what you need.

I use the 002r and I love it. I've used cubase and hated it. Axel you say pro tools is so expensive, clay is speaking of the 002r and last time I checked a 002r comes with software for about 1500 for the factory bundle, Logic is a grand all by itself plus you'll need an interface which could be anywhere from 300 to 1000 dollars itself. There are a few drawbacks to pro tools le but its not much more expensive than other software/interface combos and saying you wouldn't use it because "everyone else" uses it, that just doesn't make sense.

I have a 002r and wish I bought a RME Fireface. Got sick of Pro Tools LE's track limit really quick. On the upside, I can always say i have a pro tools rig. =/

Protools(The REAL PT) SHOULD be better! If you can afford it, get it and be done with it.

For the rest of us, Logic is often used with Mac, Nuendo is worth a careful lookhear - far as software that works with "other" interfaces than PT's. Digital performer is also often used and includes some cutting-edge features(Forget which, but I've read about them - better surround? Something...) others don't.

With any of this stuff, documentation(HELP!) along with tech support are likely as or more important than the software/interface itself. Look over the available "forums", etc., to try to see whose is best...

For me, Lynx has been great as has WaveLab... Both Co's tech support(Forums, etc.) are operated by the designers/ developers themselves - in person, as it were - not "someone" who just answers the phone or email(Or not?)... ALL by itself, worth a ton of money to me.

TG

The one that is "better" is the one that best suits your needs, and that you are most comfortable working on. Simple as that!

johnnyc wrote:

and saying you wouldn't use it because "everyone else" uses it, that just doesn't make sense.

no missunderstanding here, i have said that this is not an argument to use it, as many people not talk about it's actuall quality, more about everyone uses it... and to me many 'users' don't make AUTOMATICALLY a good product, and yes logic is expensive, but unbeliveable powerfull as well... and pro tools ain't bad, but i would go rather for logic, dp on a mac or sequia on a pc...

Didn't mean to be an ass, I just think if a program is gonna be slammed it should be slammed by former users or at least people that have sat in front of a pt rig and worked with it. ptle is limited and in some cases extrememly limited compared to other softwares. However for me its extrememly easy to use and gets me exaclty where I need to be. IMO if you're a person that doesn't use softsynths and doesn't need more than 30 tracks then pro tools is great.

no argue about that :D , i have used pro tools and most of other audio software outthere...

and yupp PT is fine, just have expressed my opinion, and i like other software more, for reasons, lot of people in this forum are upset with me because i slag off steinberg stuff (god i hate it!!!) because the engine sounds shit!, i was just proved once more... i worked on an electronic music festival here in Bratislava called wilsonic, most artists where running powerbooks with either ableton, logic or traktor... two of the nearly 100 artists used PC laptops with cubase, oh god it sounded awfull, all muddy and dull, is that a coincidence that those two are rubish producers?? i don't think so... it was a oversized good set up EAW pa and all of them used either M-audio 410s or motu 828s so i can't be the soundcard either... cubase just sounds shit, the better the monitors or pa goes the more you hear it!!!

coincidence?? two use cubase, and those two sounded awfull over the pa and all the rest not?????????????????????????????????????
with the same soundcards?????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I use protools with a discontinued input rack (DIGI 001) and works fine, performance is good, software gives you the ability to took your project to another studio with ease, major software brands does RTAS pug-ins for protools, RTAS plugins (for me) sounds better than VST or DirectX plugins. But in the MIDI area, and this one is a general comment of those who come into the studio and looks for another software like Sonar, Cubase or Logic.....is that protools is not as friendly and complete in the MIDI area than the others....so, again, is up to you decide wich working enviroment is better or ideal for you. And i have to agree with the value side of protools...for 1500$ a bundled Audio interface that is good enough, with decent preamps for starters, MIDI interface, Protools LE software and some plugins, it´s a very reasonable deal.

I run Cubase on a brand new, out of the box, 3GHz PC with a gig of RAM. No internet, no office crap, just speed. It's all so fresh the guy at the music shop took it out of the shipping box to install the software for me.

Anyway, my sessions are usually about 4 hours long. Almost every time I use it, I hear that telltale BONK and the message comes up that: "...blah blah blah...serious problem has occurred...blah blah blah...need to shut down and restart...blah blah blah...hope you weren't doing anything IMPORTANT!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: This is truly retarded.

I don't know whether it's the PC to blame, Windoze, or Cubase, but either way it sucks out loud and I wish I had made some different decisions.

If I had that road to travel again I'd buy the most stable machine I could, (and yes it would have a picture of a fruit on it)and I would not even ask questions about track counts, or compatibility with other studios, or the learning curve. I would ask "Is this thing so frigging stable that I can drive over it with a Sherman tank and it will still perform every single time without crashing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?"

I think you're doing well to ask this question, Maybe some here can speak to stability of different systems, as I think it's an often overlooked aspect.

There

Sorry gents, just venting a little...and now back to our program.

Keith

Its like whats better blondes or brunettes... it depends on taste, flavour.

I run a 002 and quite like protools but as everyone else has said the tracking limit is a frustration... I also find that protools sucks down more juice than other apps .... so you really need a powerful/optimised comp. If you dont have this you will be reduced to mostly destructive editing.... which in my opionion is painful.

I quite like cubase....... although I have found the interface can get messy the R/A functions can sometimes get messy as well. The sound is not quite as good as the tools

didnt much like logic when i tried it!!

Cubase SX's sound is phenomenal. In fact the recordings done on Cubase sound better and that's weird. Having a Protools rig means nothing these days!!

Also, the worst drawback of Protools is that it doesn't support VST. You can't buy a software which doesn't support VST at this age of time.

But anyway, it's all dependent on what you feel confortable working with and what your requirements are.

Use whatever works best for you. I know a lot of people slate Cubase but I've got SX3 and I love it. It runs 100% rock steady with NO crashes in the last couple of months since the last software revision was released. It is so subjective it's impossible to give a definitive answer.

took-the-red-pill wrote: I run Cubase on a brand new, out of the box, 3GHz PC with a gig of RAM. No internet, no office crap, just speed. It's all so fresh the guy at the music shop took it out of the shipping box to install the software for me.

Anyway, my sessions are usually about 4 hours long. Almost every time I use it, I hear that telltale BONK and the message comes up that: "...blah blah blah...serious problem has occurred...blah blah blah...need to shut down and restart...blah blah blah...hope you weren't doing anything IMPORTANT!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: This is truly retarded.

I don't know whether it's the PC to blame, Windoze, or Cubase, but either way it sucks out loud and I wish I had made some different decisions.

If I had that road to travel again I'd buy the most stable machine I could, (and yes it would have a picture of a fruit on it)and I would not even ask questions about track counts, or compatibility with other studios, or the learning curve. I would ask "Is this thing so frigging stable that I can drive over it with a Sherman tank and it will still perform every single time without crashing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?"

I think you're doing well to ask this question, Maybe some here can speak to stability of different systems, as I think it's an often overlooked aspect.

There

Sorry gents, just venting a little...and now back to our program.

Keith

If the box you pulled it out of said Dell or any other PC mfg and you didn't make the appropriate tweaks for audio performance you probably will have issues. A stock OS install appropriate for a desktop will cause major headaches if you try to install Cubase or any other Pro Audio app on it and go. Did you review the hardware for compatability with the app? That can be a real headache too. Pro audio software isn't MS Office. The OS needs configured for the application. The App needs to be configured for how you use it as well. Midi / Soft Synth / Audio.

You probably know all of this and I don't mean to sound condescending. All audio apps have issues including the mighty protools. I just get very frustrated by constantly hearing how awful Cubase is when I use it everyday problem free and from experience knbow that in many cases the people complaining haven't done the most basic configurations to fine tune the system for pro audio. So far I am 3 for 3 in fixing friends installations just using the guidelines here http://www.musicxp.net/ and in the cubase manual for configuring the system.

pr0gr4m wrote:

ProTools is just that...Pro Tools. The majority of "professional" recording studios use it.

See, I think thats a slippery slope. Early on it was clearly and by far the best out there so people bought. As its reputation grew it was still top shelf but people were beginning to buy it simply because it was compatable and "the standard" with absolutely no regard to other products or what it could or couldn't actually do for them. Now years later the legend is born and people hold it up as the holy grail. I'm not saying it isn't a good tool, it is. But, I really don't believe it to be the be all and end all of audio apps like it used to be and continues to be a force because of name recognition as much as functionality. There are other tools out there just as capable that go unnoticed or are actively snubbed because they aren't "the industry standard"

I'm new to a DAW (I used a Roland vs1680 for about 6 years) and I first went with Pro Tools LE 6.7 on a brand spanking new custom built PC, exactly to Pro Tools specs, and I had nothing but problems. It was bug after bug after bug. I had it for about 3 weeks and took the unit back to Guitar Center to get a refund. (here is a link to another post I made a few months ago with my whole Pro Tools story: (Dead Link Removed) )

I then went with Cubase SX3, because I heard a few people on this site talk highly of it. I have LOVED it ever since! Very powerful unit, with a lot of routing and mixing capabilities. It's got a slight learning curve (at least for me) but it is running strong for me. Plus it's compatable with different interfaces, VST FX, etc. Pro Tools is not compatable at all. Their gear, their software, their FX, limited tracks.... blech.

Architect dude:

No condescension detected here, especially because you probably hit the nail on the head.

I assumed the "Cubase Expert" at the music store would have checked and set all the related things at the time of install, so I figured everything was properly configured and that there wouldn't be any problems

Thanks for the info though. I will check that website, also I will go back and ask him a few more questions about the settings and such.

...and now, back to our program...

Keith

the problem with all DAWs, is you pretty much need to be a computer nerd to be able to run them. Like someone said, they are not office or another out of the box app. They are some of the most complex and consuming apps on the market. I have cubase SX on my machine.... and i've run 20 simultaneous input tracks for 3 hours straight with no breaks before (with a backup DAT) at a live show. Ran without a hitch. In the last year the only time i've had a melt down had to do with running plugs at the maximum limit while mixing, and that was my fault. I have a fast audio drive, but only 512MB of RAM. Configured properly, any DAW in the upper class should be solid.....its designers know that if their product crashes they lose market share. Besides that....I wonder if someone can listen to the radio and know which system a song was recorded on. Or even if its analog or digital anymore. I think the DAWs have gotten so good that you can't tell the difference between them anymore. So choose based on whats comfortable. I liked cubase because its set up like a real mixer in a way that i understood right when i opened it up. I don't really use much midi, but the way the GUI is set up for audio is perfect for me. I've used Pro Tools and felt lost for a little while....but thats okay... i've used it in bigger studios in my area with another engineer and really liked it too. Its like a car....you wouldn't just buy the one you see the most of on the road. Get in them and see whats comfortable. Its a big purchase....make it the right one.

k

Sonar 4 Producer Edition here. My studio serves the projects I work directly on, so I don't need to import/export a lot of Pro Tools sessions for use with other studios. I can mix down to a Broadcast wav file for use by clients who want to do post production work elsewhere. I've got good MIDI capabilities, surround if a project needs it, excellent sound, video scoring tools and enough $ left over for other tools/toys.

Just my two piastres' worth - YMMV.

Best regards,

Tio Ed

I use Sonar, and I think it has the best user interface I've come across. I also use Samplitude, which I think is amazing.

If I'm recording something critical, I use Sonar as I find it rock solid, but I think Samplitude sounds better somehow. Maybe it's just the audio engine, so there might not be a difference in what ends up on CD. The quality of plugs in Samplitude is great, but I like the Sonitus FX reverb in Sonar and use it all the time. I don't do much MIDI stuff anymore, but for that Sonar wins hands down. Actually, for quick and easy MIDI work I still use my ten year old copy of Cakewalk!

John Stafford