If I were you, I'd just stick up a pair of Rode NT5s, or something like that. Maybe the Audio Techinca AT3031 would be good as well, or if you want a bit more ambience (i.e. drunk people in the background!), the AT3032 omnis might do the trick.

John

I would get some PZM mics, mount them on plexiglass and hang them on mic stands and place them in front of the band as high as possible.

The plexiglass will help isolate the mics and make them more directional, while increasing the pick up pattern, making it wider.

They're on the cheaper end of the spectrum, perhaps too cheap, but any opinion about the Marshall Electronics MXL 603S? I actually wasn't aware of the Rode NT5's....and I'll bet the 603S's don't measure up....but any info would be great.

Any opinion on the Studio Projects C4?

I've been out of the recording sphere for about 10 years...boy, am I behind on things!

C4's rock ...

Yeah, given the right application, the C4s are a safe bet. Personally, for budget mics, I'm a big fan of the 30 series of pencil mics from AT. They can be had for around $300-$350 for a pair and they are excellent.

The Marshalls are very decent mics too. I wouldn't use any of the above over an orchestra, but for a situation where I was sure about beer flying around AND I wanted good fidelity at the same time, you can't go wrong with these.

Check out the SE series of mics too. They have a couple SDCs that are great for the money too.

So, the Marshall's are worth a look? You can get a pair (unmatched) of those with a hard case for $200. Not a bad deal if they're decent. I'd like to make pretty good quality recordings.....considering the environment... ;-) Are these capable? I'd be going straight to Harddisk with my laptop. Probably using something like a M-Audio Firewire 410 or similar interface. Thinking about getting a mic preamp too...

You can get the Marchall 603's in a mathced pair or unmatched. Obviously a matched pair is better...but what about stereo recording with an unmatched pair. In a studio setting I'd say no, but live? Hmm....

Hmm...seems like I'm stuck among the G4's, AT3031, Marshall 603s, and the Rode NT5s......hm............

Btw, and advice on preamps for this type of application....or not to worry, considering the setting????

If you want to do it on the cheap, you might consider some of the Edirol interfaces. They are excellent value for money. I would choose these over M-Audio, but you must beware that both Edirol and M-Audio interfaces can present some problems when you try to use them with your computer. The M-Audio devices have driver problems, while Edirol USB interfaces don't like the chipsets found on some computers. I wouldn't bother with outboard preamps, as you are unlikely to find any significant improvement unless you are going to spend more money than your current budget would appear to allow. The pres on the Edirols are surprisingly decent (for the money).

Irish music setups like those you have described provide a lot of difficulties, as anyone who has ever recorded a bodhran will tell you. The best you can do is experiment with your mics and hope to make the right compromises, and you might be pleasantly surprised by what you can do on a budget.

John

Graek wrote: They're on the cheaper end of the spectrum, perhaps too cheap, but any opinion about the Marshall Electronics MXL 603S? I actually wasn't aware of the Rode NT5's....and I'll bet the 603S's don't measure up....but any info would be great.

The 603s sound pretty good on there own. If you change out a few of the caps on them it tames down the highs and makes them very nice for the price. There is a mod somewhere online. If you are really interested I could probably dig it up.

John Stafford wrote: I would choose these over M-Audio, but you must beware that both Edirol and M-Audio interfaces can present some problems when you try to use them with your computer. The M-Audio devices have driver problems, while Edirol USB interfaces don't like the chipsets found on some computers.

That's a bit simplified, I think. I'm using M-Audio converters, a FireWire 410 more specifically, and from I opened the box, installed the version 1 drivers included on the CD and connected the unit, it ran nice and smoothly and hasn't caused any problems at all, ever, not even minor ones - and I keep updating every time new drivers are released.

It's my theory that whenever computers are involved, there'll be trouble somewhere! Frequently, questions pop up at message boards regarding difficulties with drivers, but as often as the questions concern M-Audio gear, other products are also mentioned - RME, Edirol, Pro Tools, MOTU, whatever. 90% of driver problems also seem to be incorrect installations.

Hi Ellegaard

Yes, it is indeed simplified, but in my opinion true. I can use the FW 410 and Edirol USB devices with no problems at all, but not everybody can.

M-Audio must be given credit for being open about any driver issues that arise, but I know some people for whom stability remains an issue. With Edirol USB devices some people have problems that can't be solved due to hardware compaitbility problems (as the company admits on its website).

Of course people have problems with RME and other more expensive gear, but I was talking about what I believe are the best budget options.

While I can use both Edirol and M-Audio equipment without any problems, I think it is important that the attention of any potential buyer should be drawn to the most common difficulties experienced by other users. Of course these issues are only a problem for a small minorty of users, and I would be inclined to agree with you that the majority of these problems are caused by incorrect installations
.
John

PS Have you used the 1814? I'm curious to know how it compares to the 410. I tend to ignore SOS reviews.

Hm.....maybe I'll go with the Edirol then. Looking at the Edirol site, perhaps the FA-66 or FA-101. I'm using a new Apple iBook with 1.2GB of RAM and an external 160GB firewire harddrive for recording. Anyone heard of compatibility issues with Macs>Edirols? Are the pres in the Edirols better than M-Audio? ...or is it about equal, given the price?

Anyway...still not sure if I should go with the cheaper Marshal 603s or spend the extra for a pair of matched Rode NT5s or maybe even the SP C4s.

I want to use them for studio recording too, so if there's a definite audio quality difference with the Rode's or StudioProjects, I may spend the extra...more input from anyone is good, but I'm sure it's about time to go listen for myself at the local music shop.... :-)

The best deals I've found...all are matched pairs....

MXL603s with shockmounts and case: $199

Studio Projects C4s with shockmounts and case: $319 (free shipping)

Rode NT5s with case and 2 cables: $399 (free shipping)

Hmm...I'm starting to think about the C4's. I do like the fact that they come with interchangable caps to switch from omni to cardoid patterns. Nice feature...not to mention the switchable -10db pad and high pass filter.

So, if it were Rode's vs. SPs??? Which one has a fuller warmer tone? I'm been reading about the extra, sometimes harsh, high end on the MXL603s and I'm starting to side away from them...but the price IS good. But when I record acoustic guitar ot octave mandolin, I usually prefer a warmer, darker sound....so...

Graek wrote:
So, if it were Rode's vs. SPs??? Which one has a fuller warmer tone? I'm been reading about the extra, sometimes harsh, high end on the MXL603s and I'm starting to side away from them...but the price IS good. But when I record acoustic guitar ot octave mandolin, I usually prefer a warmer, darker sound....so...

Fuller/Warmer = SP
Bright (not brittle)/Articulate = Rode

8-)

Graek wrote: Hm.....maybe I'll go with the Edirol then. Looking at the Edirol site, perhaps the FA-66 or FA-101. I'm using a new Apple iBook with 1.2GB of RAM and an external 160GB firewire harddrive for recording. Anyone heard of compatibility issues with Macs>Edirols? Are the pres in the Edirols better than M-Audio? ...or is it about equal, given the price?

That's a difficult one to answer. Ellegaard has made some lovely recordings with his FW-410. I have been very pleased with recordings made with an Edirol UR-80 that I bought to use as a control surface.

The FA-101 has some advantages over its nearest M-Audio counterpart (FW1814) in that it has balanced I/O. The FW1814 would probably considered to be higher up in the food chain than the Edirol, whose flagship interface is the UA-1000, but I think it's a little over-priced considering it has some major design flaws in my opinion -you can't use ADAT inputs along with its native converters, or at least that was the case at its launch, but the converters are extremely good for the price, as are the four mic pre-amps.

The FA-101 offers a lot for the money, and that would be my choice.

I have absolutely no idea about how well these devices work on macs. If they offer Mac support, you are less likely to have differing problems from computer to computer. If you have two PCs, chances are you will have an entirely different set of drivers on each machine, which is a cause of a lot of problems for PC users.

John

Wow, was I in luck...I ran into an old friend of mine who just happened to be selling his FA-101. It's only a month or so old. He bought it, found out it wasn't enough for what he wanted to do, decided to upgrade to a MOTU traveler...

I was just reading the post about the AT4040 on recording violin. I've checked out several other posts on here about the 4040 as well. How would those work in recording a stereo session... Or is a SD condensor more suited to this application?

That IS a stroke of luck!

Many people will tell you that you should use SDCs for this, but you can use any condensers. I don't know if anyone here agrees with me on this, but I think the price/performance ratio is better for LDC mics in the price range of the AT4040. That is a generalisation of course, and in most cases you are limiting yoursef to cardioid. LDCs and SDCs will give fidderent results, but one is not necessariy better than the other.

Good luck with it!

John

PS let us know how you like your FA-101.

John Stafford wrote: Many people will tell you that you should use SDCs for this, but you can use any condensers. I don't know if anyone here agrees with me on this, but I think the price/performance ratio is better for LDC mics in the price range of the AT4040.

Yeah Joh, I tend to agree. The LDC market in the $300-$600 is incredibly competetive and filled with quality products. The entire AT 40 line is a good example. Rode mics are another great example.

...will give fidderent results...

I'm glad to see I'm not eht only dyslexic person on the draob.

...J :-?

Cucco wrote: [quote=John Stafford]Many people will tell you that you should use SDCs for this, but you can use any condensers. I don't know if anyone here agrees with me on this, but I think the price/performance ratio is better for LDC mics in the price range of the AT4040.

Yeah Joh, I tend to agree. The LDC market in the $300-$600 is incredibly competetive and filled with quality products. The entire AT 40 line is a good example. Rode mics are another great example.

...will give fidderent results...

I'm glad to see I'm not eht only dyslexic person on the draob.

...J :-?

Yeah, during my Black Sabbath phase, I slod my suol to Santa!

Isn't it funny the way decent LDCs start off fairly cheaply, but can be WAY more expensive when you get to the serious high end stuff?

BTW does the M296 have a 1" diaphragm? I was always curious as to how I never came across an LDC pressure mic.

John

It's actually a 3/4 inch (19mm) diaphragm - but the outside measurement is 1 inch so for some reason, they call it a 1 inch diaphragm.

DPA has a couple large diaphragm pressure mics.

j.

Jeremy,
Now I understand why it's sometimes referred to as small diaphragm and sometimes large. It's under SDC onthe Gefell site, and on a clone site they say one inch, so i was a little confused.

How stupid of me to forget about the DPA LDC pressure mics :?
Some days I should just stay in bed :roll:

I would be very happy if some companies that do cut down versions of their multi pattern LDCs would do an omni version instead of everything being cardioid -but that's a different discussion. I've strayed far enough from the original topic already.

Cheers
John

There was already similar suggestion before, but we had some good results with pzm mics. Not on plexiglass though. We just taped them to the wall in the room and that was it. Or not to the wall, to some columns (if this is the right word for what I mean), I'm pretty sure there will be something like it in the pub. We used russian mics Nevaton, they're pretty good for money

I personally think that Nevaton is one of the best microphone brands in the world. Especially the MC 416, which I have tested just a few days ago, sounds amazing. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than any overpriced Neumann mic.

BTW, just A/B'd several preamps on that occasion, the Amek PurePath/Channel in a Box, the Avalon 737, Line Audio OMP (from Sweden and new to me), and just for the sake of it Joemeek ThreeQ and the SP VTB1.

Immediately turned off the VTB1. Sounds like crap! It is like having only a certain bandwith to work with, like around 60 - 10000 Hz, with sort of presence in the low mids. It is like a cheap eq. And if you turn the tube up it will sound even worse.

I was very very surprised with the Joemeek. I actually did not expect anything good from it, but was astonished. I cannot trust it, though, that is why I am going to test it again, next week. But as far as I can say now, the bass, mids and highs are simply "there", very good response, decent preamp, decent compressor, did not mess up the sound even on max.
It seems to be great bang for the buck but like I said, I do not trust it.
It had that special "on air" sound.

Awright! The OMP, that thing from Sweden... I was like WOW, you know. How can such a great sound be achieved for - what did that guy say again - 700 bucks? It is just 8 decent, very decent preamps, phase reverse and pad, that's it. Oh yeah, and as far as I remember lightpipe out. Gotta hear it again. This could be the one...

And now the Real McCoys...

I am not gonna comment the Avalon 737. I expected great sound but got very dissappointed. Hey, I am not sure but could it be that the EQ and the compressor makes noise after certain levels? It is in the eye (or the ear) of the beholder but that Avalon (don't understand the hype) is crap. There are certainly better amps and I think the best one was

the Amek

is the winner of this little test (I am going to continue over the next weeks)!!! Excuse My Language But Mr. Neve, I am definitely on your D.!! This is THE Sound. I got nothing more to add!

Attitude wrote:
I am not gonna comment the Avalon 737. I expected great sound but got very dissappointed. Hey, I am not sure but could it be that the EQ and the compressor makes noise after certain levels? It is in the eye (or the ear) of the beholder but that Avalon (don't understand the hype) is crap. There are certainly better amps and I think the best one was

the Amek

is the winner of this little test (I am going to continue over the next weeks)!!! Excuse My Language But Mr. Neve, I am definitely on your D.!! This is THE Sound. I got nothing more to add!

Hi Attitude
A lot of people will agree with you about the Avalon, but as many will disagree. It's one of those boxes that somehow conceals its capabilities. Stick a U87 in and you can get a great sound. It's also popular with hip-hop people. I'm looking to try an Avalon M5.

Strangely enough, many people will disagree with you about the Amek. I won't because I want one :lol:

Oh yeah, about the Nevaton. I've been trying to find out more about these as well as the Elations. Glad to hear that they deliver the goods! I'm interested in the MC48. I've come across the mic-pres on http://www.studiosolutions.se and was a little curious about these as well.

John

Hi, John. Thanks for your reply and the link. I do not know how the Elations sound, but as soon as I have saved me some bucks I will definitely get me that Nevations. I am saying this as an old fan of Neumann and as an owner of U87s. Damn, those Nevations are damn fine mics!!! Hey, thanks again for the link to studiosolutions. They apparently sell the OMPs for 500 bucks unlike that guy over here who obviously wanted to rip me off. I remember him saying 700. Anyway, I think I am gonna Email that guy from Line Audio. It seems that you can get that thing direct. If you wanna check out the specs and some other stuff he makes, here is the link

http://www.lineaudio.se

God bless!

Hi Attitude

Thanks for a fascinating link. At last a company that provides independent outs from the capsules!
The concept behind the capsules is really interesting. I think AKG did something vaguely like this with the original C3000 (a small capsule in front of the main one?), but I'd love to hear one of these triple membrane capsules. The prices are great too.

As far as differing prices go, I wouldn't be surprised having to pay a good deal extra. This guy seems to be selling at wholesale prices -perhaps the price we should be paying for most of our equipment?

The prices are great on everything, although I'd have to pay the full Swedish tax on top of the price. Still, there are many enticing things on this site.

Thanks again 8-)
John

Hey Attitude!
Good to hear such a great things about Nevatons! I know only those pzms from their line so I didn't tell anything about others. There is one trick about pzms, if you would like to buy them. There are 2 types of cable from capsule to preamp. I would recommend to take ones with thick cable. But some guys told me that it's easy to change it by yourself. I didn't try to do that.
Some bad things about Nevatons I heard - they are different from mic to mic (1 model). We noticed that too with our pzms.

Cheers!