synap2012 wrote: Hey guys can anyone explain to me why protools le 6.4 cost so much.

That's the question of the century! Because they can charge that much and get away with it? Because some people will buy it just because it is expensive?

PT was the first to come out with a DAW that really worked. When computers were still prett nut less, the added processing that PT offered via extra cards was the answer many studios were looking for and people became to think of PT as the de facto system, just because it really worked, go figure ???

Digidesign became deeply entrenched in the system, especially with deep pocket pros who would like to do all they can to preserve their share of a shrinking market. What better way to accomplish this than impose a standard that is cost prohibitve to most home recordists, like 2" tape and large format consoles used to be?

The truth is PT is no better than other DAW programs .. in fact some versions of PT use 24 floating bit processing as opposed to the 32 bit systems other DAW software like Nuenedo / Cubase employ ... I think PT is erroniously used by the Pro community as a way to seperate themselevs from the rest of the pack. The real truth is PT offers nothing more than compatibility with other PT based studios. This line of distinction is becoming more blured everyday as file swapping protocalls become more available.

synap2012 wrote: .... where can I find it for a reasonible price?

thanx synap

ummm let's see, take the bus to Never Never land. When you arrive, ask for a transfer to the Big Rock Candy Mountain. Ask to speak to Prince Charming. He will give you the best deal ... Retail + 20%!

Sorry Kurt, but I have to totally disagree here.

The reason why Pro Tools LE 6.4 costs so much is because you're getting hardware with the software (MBox, 002R and 002). PT LE doesn't work unless digidesign hardware is detected either installed or connected to your PC or Mac.

Steinberg Nuendo which retails for around $AU2500 or more, and this is just for the software. Spend another $AU500-3000 on a decent quality ASIO Audio interface or I/O card/and or box.

Pro Tools LE 6.4 with a 002R retails for around $AU2000. This solution gives you a hardware and software package in one. The MBox is the entry level PT LE solution and goes for a very reasonable $AU870. Digidesign's PT LE hardware like the AudiomediaIII, 001, MBox, 002R and 002 all support third party sequencers like Nuendo, Cubase SX, Logic and Cakewalk Sonar ect ect... via Digidesigns ASIO driver.

So for a all in one recording solution that WORKS, I think what digi ask for their combined software/hardware packages is more than reasonable. Arguing about 24bit and 32bit processing is a waste of time as 99% of you are not going to hear a difference. But by all means go and spend twice as much dough on a comparable system from Nuendo or Cubase SX with 3rd party hardware.

Just my 2 cents!

Keeping in mind it takes $1.39 AUD to make one US Dollar.
AU $2000. / US $2780.00 ... AU $870 / US $1209.30

A person can be into Cubase and 10 channels i/o for under $1600. Even less if they can find an older version like VST 5.1 or 6.0 .... or the stripped down version of Cubase. M Audios Octane is supposed to be coming bundled with a lean Cubase also. Aardvark Q10 comes bundled with Cool Edit pro. There'e a lot of options that cost less than PT.

er..... I could see your point... if it was 1996. :P

PT is not nearly at the same price point it was years ago. I got my Digi001 setup for 600 bucks... new. You can get them online all day for about that much. And that comes with the hardware (2 pres, 8 ins/8 outs, lightpipe ins, A/D converters, etc) and PT LE. I really don't see how 600 bucks can be remotely considered "expensive" for what you get with that. Heck, I'm looking at dropping that much right now just for a mic pre.

OK ... I see the writing on the wall.

PT LE doesn't work unless digidesign hardware is detected either installed or connected to your PC or Mac.

I was looking and I saw the M Box ... was wondering if PT le would run with this on the USB and still let me use my Frontier card too?

As much as I dislike it I suppose PT is going to take over. %#@&!

just like starbucs, Kust, one in every corner-

Kurt Foster wrote: OK ... I see the writing on the wall.

PT LE doesn't work unless digidesign hardware is detected either installed or connected to your PC or Mac.

I was looking and I saw the M Box ... was wondering if PT le would run with this on the USB and still let me use my Frontier card too?

As much as I dislike it I suppose PT is going to take over. %#@&!

Having the Mbox connected via USB should not affect any other device installed in your PC. It will not affect PT LE as this will only see it's own hardware anyway. If you install the digidesign ASIO driver then you'll have to select which ASIO device is enabled in your ASIO sequencer. I don't know if this Frontier card you mention is ASIO compliant, but I guess it is. In this scenario only one ASIO card or device can be used at any one time in software like Cubase SX and Nuendo, although multiple cards of the same make and model may be used where supported by the manufacturer using the same ASIO driver.

Re: disliking PT, I can't see why. If you're an engineer 1st, I can see why Cubase or Nuendo might be favourable because of their 'pretty' GUI's. But if you're a musician 1st and want the simplest solution to operate, there is nothing more simpler to operate than PT. It doesn't get in the way of what's important, the SONG. To me PT LE is like a virtual tape system but with very handy editing capabilities and RTAS plugs. :D

Much of my reasons for not liking PT is political as anything else and has to do with not liking the company. I just don't like their aggressive update schedule and how their products reach obsolescence quickly. I don't like that they pretty much try to close out third party developers from the loop and I don't like that the product is slanted for use on Macs .. (I don't like Apple for the same reasons) I also feel there is a lot of colusion between Apple and Digidesign in regards to keeping the pressure to update on the user and thereby milking the user base over and over again ... and I really do think that the processing point makes a difference ... 32 bit just sounds better to me.

I do think Cubase is more like a traditional mixer and recorder ... you don't have to do a lot of busing junk to get reverb sends etc ... but I do see the writing on the wall. It appears that Digidesign has turned the corner in the past few months and will become the holder of the major part of the market.. so it's time to get on the bus... but I want a cheap seat.

Yes the Frontier Dakota card is ASIO compliant ... I have 18 channels lightpipe / spdif in and out with the Dakota and a pair of Alesis AI3's ... so can I use them with PT Le and the M Box?

PT software will only "see" Pro Tools Hardware. In other words, you won't be able to use your Dakota card with ProTools LE. You will be able to use the M-Box as an ASIO device in any software that is ASIO compliant.

So in other words, in order to use PT Le I have to buy a crappy Digidesign interface with lousy Focusrite Platinum pres and shi*tty Digidesign converters and a lot of features I don't need?

Isn't there any way to do what I want to do?

Use Cubase, your lovely mic/pres, converter and dokata digital card.

Protools is a one way ticket to dependence. Which is what they want. Your money you fool.

NolanVenhola wrote: Use Cubase, your lovely mic/pres, converter and dokata digital card.

Protools is a one way ticket to dependence. Which is what they want. Your money you fool.

That's pretty much my thoughts and it's how I started ..... but it does appear that PT will be a major share of the market. It would be nice to be able to run the software with the hardware I already have ... any suggestions on how to run PT le with a Dakota card and AI3 converters??

If you can find a cheap second hand 001 or buy even a new 002 or 002R you'll be able to use any ADAT lightpipe 8 channel I/O device instead of the digidesign pres and converters.

As far as digi products being slanted towards Macs, this is no longer true. Digidesign demoed their ICON desk with a PC. PC's nowadays have ample grunt for running Pro Tools.

On the DUC (digidesign user forum) there seems to be alot of people moving from Mac to PC, and these days probably less hassle with PC compatibilities than with Macs.

BladeSG wrote: If you can find a cheap second hand 001 or buy even a new 002 or 002R you'll be able to use any ADAT lightpipe 8 channel I/O device instead of the digidesign pres and converters.

Is this a problem for anyone else? How do guys like Nathaniel Kunkle use other converters? Can this only be accomplished in PT/TDM? It kinda sucks that Digi would allow this kind of latitude to the Pro user but treat the home recordist like a child and force them into these crappy Focusrite preamps and sh*tty Digi converters.. It's like, "Here's a taste ... now if you want it all, you gotta pay through the nose" ... (over and over and over and over and over and over ..... )

This is a huge stumbling block for me. I regularly use 16 ins for tracking basics ... my drum kit takes 11 channels 2 on kick, 2 on snare, 4 toms, stereo overhead and hi hat ... then I need 2 for bass and 2 for guitar... that leaves one for a scratch vocal ..

To go with PTle on an 001 or 002 .... I would be forced to use 8 channels of the Digi interface... and while the converters are not any worse than the ones I am using (Alesis AI3's) I would absolutely want to bypass those Focusrite Platinum mic pres .... (ugh!).

It's just seems I would be paying for a lot of stuff I don't need, just to get a ticket to get on the PT bus. The capper is I still will be limited to 32 tracks, whereas in my current Cubase rig I can run 72..

This is what I hate about PT and Digidesign. You are forced into making decisions you don't want to make ... forced to use gear you don't want to use. All the while, Digidesign does all they can to take over the market and use their influence as an entrenched player to force compitition out of the marketplace. They do this in some very subtle ways. I have suspicions about one of these instructional videos that has recently been released. I think it may have been financed by Digidesign. Presented as an tutorial, this video is IMO, really more a demo of how cool PT is and it's capabilities. I directly asked the question of a producer of this video and he avoided answering me directly. he never said, no Digi did not help pay for this ...
:roll: .... draw your own conclusion ....

Sadly, it seems a lot of people who are enamored with the idea that PT is "THE" pro way to record (these same types worship celebrity also, this is part of it) are taking the bait.

If Digidesign wins (and I'm afraid they will) ... we will all be forced into the cycle of constant upgrades just to stay in a place where we can get service and support and updates. end of rant

BladeSG wrote: If you can find a cheap second hand 001 or buy even a new 002 or 002R you'll be able to use any ADAT lightpipe 8 channel I/O device instead of the digidesign pres and converters.

This is a huge stumbling block for me. I regularly use 16 ins for tracking basics ... my drum kit takes 11 channels 2 on kick, 2 on snare, 4 toms, stereo overhead and hi hat ... then I need 2 for bass and 2 for guitar... that leaves one for a scratch vocal ..

Is this a problem for anyone else? How do guys like Nathaniel Kunkle use other converters? Can this only be accomplished in PT/TDM? It kinda sucks that Digi would allow this kind of latitude to the Pro user but treat the home recordist like a child and force them into these crappy Focusrite preamps and sh*tty Digi converters.. It's like, "Here's a taste ... now if you want it all, you gotta pay through the nose" ... (over and over and over and over and over and over ..... )

To go with PTle on an 001 or 002 .... I would be forced to use 8 channels of the Digi interface... and while the converters are not any worse than the ones I am using (Alesis AI3's) I would absolutely want to bypass those Focusrite Platinum mic pres .... (ugh!).

It's just seems I would be paying for a lot of stuff I don't need, just to get a ticket to get on the PT bus. The capper is I still will be limited to 32 tracks, whereas in my current Cubase rig I can run 72..

This is what I hate about PT and Digidesign. You are forced into making decisions you don't want to make ... forced to use gear you don't want to use. All the while, Digidesign does all they can to take over the market and use their influence as an entrenched player to force compitition out of the marketplace. They do this in some very subtle ways. I have suspicions about one of these instructional videos that has recently been released. I think it may have been financed by Digidesign. Presented as an tutorial, this video is IMO, really more a demo of how cool PT is and it's capabilities. I directly asked the question of a producer of this video and he avoided answering me directly. he never said, no Digi did not help pay for this ...
:roll: .... draw your own conclusion ....

Sadly, it seems a lot of people who are enamored with the idea that PT is "THE" pro way to record (these same types worship celebrity also, this is part of it) are taking the bait.

If Digidesign wins (and I'm afraid they will) ... we will all be forced into the cycle of constant upgrades just to stay in a place where we can get service and support and updates. end of rant

OMG, Kurt, you really hate Digidesign, don't you...
:(

He's not alone... High five, Kurt - 8-)

I remember way back when - I used to work with a lot of ad agencies in the Chicago area - One calls me up one day and wants me to sit in on a demo of "this computer recording thing."

Of course, I was pretty floored - And most ad agencies were also. They picked 'em up like squirrels grabbing nuts. Now, all the studios needed them so they could still work with the same agencies.

That was "The Beginning" as I remember it...

It was all downhill from there... Now even M-Audio isn't immune to the power.

hey Synap i have Pro-tools too i bought my 002R for around $US-1470.... and it came along with the protool kit..... and once you have them... u can update it with the latest version from the pro tools web site which will be free for the registered user who has purchased Digidesign Prpduct... but i have'nt used pro tools much till now...i did'nt like it much though its editing tools are very weak.... infact the shortcut keys sucks.... i hate to use mouse much while i m working like recording mixing using mouse again n again waste so much time...which pro-tools is doing...but...but...... if you have a control surface with you for Pro-Tools then its just like using your computer keyboard
you have all the shortcuts and commands routed to your control surface...i wish i had that much money so i would buy the control24 system its awsome....make sure to order your Pro Tools DVD from their web site...man its worth watching it....i dream to have one of those HD systems.....

I am running digital performer 4.12 on a dual 867 mac g4- I gotten as many as 40+ tracks with plugins and not used even half the processor power. I can use whateve interface, whatever AD , whatever pres I want.
Life is good and I'm certainly not crossing over to Digi-

Lately i've been using a lot of soft synths and samplers (mach five, atmosphere, garritan personal orchestra) and that is taking a toll in my processor- I've been having to print the tracks to keep up- so I've been considering maybe next year going to a G5 (maybe not!) I'm going to try an extra GB of ram first, kick up my G4 to a full 2GB and see what happens-
at a cost of $189 for a gig of ram is an easy desicion-

Since DP works well for me I don't think I'll be changing platforms anytime soon- By the same token, I don't think that PT users will change either as they are used to their DAW or for that matter Nuendo users, or logic users, or cubase users... you name it- There is a definite learning curve in all these programs and there has to be a real big reason for us to change. So far Pt or anyother DAW hasn't given me that compelling reason to change from DP to whatever-

well i have 3.2ghz machine having 256 mb grafix support with 2gb ram...i've got over 300gb scsi and life is flying when i m doing a mix or making a track in cubase SX 2.0...... i rarely get to have jearks or fireworks while i m working in my system...though i mix my songs on vegas 5.0 since it takes a bit more load then cubase sx but still i have no problem even when i m working on the project over 50 tracks or 40 using lots of buses and directX plugins... i have digi 002...but the one thing i hate abt digi 002 is that when i switch from one application to another it insults and say sorry pal the device is busy rendering services to other software so get rid of that application and then work.... and as soon as i do it sometime it works with other applications and sometime i have to re-start my pc...this is the problem which irritates me alot while working cuz i just can't stick to one application while working...hey Kurt boss do you have n e idea how can i get rid of this problem...plzzzz...

Don't play with your tools!

I don't like the fact that Digidesigns entry level gear is so poorly made. At least one in every four systems I have sold has come back with a major problem. I refuse to deal with that kind of manufacturer. the return rate on all of Digi's gear is roughly double any other brand I've sold, including Edirol and Behringer! We don't carry it anymore as a result.

I think a big thing you guys are missing is the usefulness of PT for going between professional studios and home. Here I have access to a large PT HD system, and with an Mbox I can use PT and edit, mix and overdub, just general stuff, not nessecarily record on an mbox. I am coming from 3 years on Cubase and Motu 24i, which I loved, you can't mess with 800$ for 24 inputs, but moving to big studios, PT seems like a logical and portable choice. I can only pray that some day Digidesign desides to let us use ASIO gear with protools, then handsdown, there'd be no competition in my mind.

My opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

Ben Lindell

Ben,
Don't hold your breath in regards to Digi allowing anyone to use anything with their systems other than their own hardware. You may turn blue and fall down ... and that is what i dislike about PT ..

As to file transfer ... gotta guy coming in day after tomorrow with a firewire drive to off load some Cubase files recorded here so he can take them back to his PT based studio for further work ... I will let you all know how it went. He seems to think it will not be a big deal ... if it works easily, well, so much for the compatibility argument.