Hi Paul,

I'm not familiar with your interface but I am with the mic. It could be faulty? What was the other mic you tried?
Don't you need a mic pre for this interface, you didn't mention you had one? :whistle: One that is at least of any value? $15 per channel can't be doing you much justis, that's for certain. Is this it? http://www.amazon.c…

• Four-channel computer audio-recording interface
• Record up to 24-bit, 48 kHz audio into virtually any software
• Monitor sessions with balanced studio monitor and headphone outputs

I don't see it having a pre-amp in it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamplifier

Yes, that is exactly the Alesis io4 I am using. I also used my Alesis io2 to make sure that the interface wasn't the problem. I have used these many times before with no problems using an AT4040 and a Sterling S50. The AT4040 was the mic I replaced the NT-1 in the setup mentioned above. I've never used a mic preamp in any of my projects before with this setup and have not needed one. This is why I'm confused about the NT-1.

I'm thinking you need a pre-amp.

Ok. Which one do you recommend? But, ya know, I'm still a bit confused. Is there any reason why an AT4040 would work right and an NT-1 would not work in the same direct-to-interface-without-a-preamp setup?

I'm not a tech guy but it could be the other mics have a lot of output or you had the gain, (maybe it was set on -10 on the interface?) which boosted the level enough for the mic to produce sound. Did you plug those mics in the line input?

Somewhere you had to of had a lot of boost to get those other mics to work like you say. Are you using the exact same cable for the RODE now?
Never the less, if you invest in a good preamp, you will get much better sound.

I'm not the guy to recommend anything in or around your budget but there will be others in the morning that will surely chime in with more help for you.

What is your unexpected budget for a pre-amp now? How many channels do you need to record at one time?

So I got the Alesis io2 (2-channel) a few years ago to record my own stuff. I really liked what it did so I recently got the Alesis io4 (4-channel) because I now have a business which requires me to record more than 2 tracks at once. For now, I only need the 4 channels (I would not be running more than 4 tracks simultaneously. I had some experience with the NT-1 in the past and loved it but that was with a friend's interface (I don't remember which one he used). He didn't use a mic preamp either. I mean, it's the same 48v powering the mic, whether you're using a $60 interface or a $600 one, right? 48v is 48v.

As for my current unexpected budget, it's between $50 - $150 right now. Like I said, I've never used a mic preamp because I've never needed one so I'm unsure where to start.

Lets see what a few other members have to say.

Ok. Thanx! :-)

According to Rode, the NT1-A should work just fine with [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.rodemic…"]Phantom Power as low as 24V.[/]="http://www.rodemic…"]Phantom Power as low as 24V.[/]

Your Alesis allegedly provides 48v. (but manufacturers exaggerating voltages is not uncommon)

So, unless I'm missing something, I'm inclined to say you might have a bad mic - considering that you did a test where everything was the same except for a different condenser mic and the result you got was extremely loud volume from it.

When they say "quiet" in the ads, they're referring to self-noise, not low output.
I own an NT-1 and it's fairly sensitive and very easily delivers plenty of output. (provided that the Phantom power is turned on).

Look at that, 38 years in music, I never knew you didn't need a pre with phantom power.

Here's what I think is going on.

Are you using XLR to XLR microphone cable? Or do you have some kind of 1/4 inch to XLR cable adapter in use? Because If you are? The problem is right there. It won't work that way. It's not supposed to work that way. Other microphones might possibly work? And you'd be extremely luckyIf they did.

When you say you haven't used a preamp... you obviously haven't read any of your operational manuals nor anything else. The XLR inputs on your ALESIS gizmo are preamps. Microphones have to have preamps. They don't work with a preamp. Read a book for God's sake. You're a big boy.

I've never used a preamp. Right. Check. Got that.
Mx. Remy Ann David

You really need to pay closer attention to what Paul said in his original post before you start blasting him, Remy.

And I quote:

"I got my [="http://rodemic.com/"]RODE[/]="http://rodemic.com/"]RODE[/] NT-1 today. I opened up the box, read the manual and properly set it up (meaning that I connected an XLR cable to my [[url=http://="http://www.alesis.c…"]Alesis[/]="http://www.alesis.c…"]Alesis[/] io4 interface into GarageBand on a MacBook). It didn't seem to work so I cranked the gain to 11. The signal was barely detected."

"I then tried the same setup with a different interface and had the same result."

"I then tried the same setup with a different XLR cable with and had same result."

"I then tried the same setup with a different condenser mic and immediately had to turn the gain down before blowing everything up."

So obviously:

It's not the pre - I/O.
It's not the cable.
And, if his AT4040 works fine through his existing pre and existing cable, and the newly-arrived Rode does not, what - pray tell - would your audio physician diagnosis be?

FWIW, I believe that Doctor Hawk has already come up with the most logical and likely diagnosis.

audiokid - thank you for all your help

dvdhawk - thank you for your input. So, basically, if I'm reading you right, either Alesis is lying to me about the io4 having 48v or my mic is actually bunk. Yes?

remy - yes, I'm using an XLR - XLR cable.

DonnyThompson - thank you for getting my back :-)

RemyRAD, post: 418177, member: 26269 wrote: Read a book for God's sake. You're a big boy.

I've never used a preamp. Right. Check. Got that.
Mx. Remy Ann David

I think Remy thinks this is cute, but I find this kind of wording very unsettling, belittling. If you stopped talking to people like this, Remy, it would look better on you, better for our forum.

Thanx, audiokid... Just for clairity's sake, when I said that I've never used a mic preamp before because I never needed one, I was referring to an external mic preamp. Of all the interfaces I've used in the past, their descriptions stated that you can plug a mic into it via XLR and then plug a USB into your computer and it will show up there. Like most product descriptions I find, not everything was made clear. I never knew that a smaller mic preamp IS the thing inside the interface that makes the signal get to the computer via USB.

In layman's terms and just some discussion for you,
I don't believe your interface has a preamp but it must amplify the signal. I wasn't aware phantom power actually did this in such a way you didn't need a mic-pre. I'l like to learn more about this now.

Your interface is relying on a high signal of the mic which leads to anywhere from (very poor, good to better ) audio results. I never like high output mics, even a $5000 Neumann M-149 or M-147. I had one and hated it. It was however, most likely a great mic for overheads in the most ideal acoustic setting but I'll never know. It was terrible for vocals compared to other mics I have with less output. And thats why I bought it. I also have really nice pre-amps and like the sound of them and pushing gain there, rather than the opposite.

I'd much rather have a good preamp and a lower output mics for more control of the gains over one product so hot that it off sets the balances of other products in a signal chain.

Great info, audiokid...thanx! So then are you saying that the NT-1 is not a high output mic?

Well I'm terribly sorry again that whatever comedy that was intended, wasn't received as such. Right, check, got that. Thanks. It's an expression I use all of the time. It's a whimsical and a naïve confusion of the deed already done.

And the question whether there were any 1/4 inch TRS adapters being used was a valid question.

I will assume (no I won't assume anything) that the gizmo by ALESIS provides +48 V phantom power, it may not deliver enough current for all condenser microphones. This has been a problem in the past with other devices similar to those such as the ALESIS that could not deliver the current to power Neumann U-87's. Such may be the case with the NT-1 A?? Unlike learned people like Boswell and other fine members here, who may just look up the data when not certain? I respond through experience and not necessarily immediately looking data up and doing your work for you. I can give you the hint. Then you can investigate, postulate, propagate and have a date. And hopefully not with the Murphy audio devil? Which is likes having the same awful blind date twice with the same person.

I guess I should know better that everybody here, investigates every word within a sentence, in the English language, much like everybody investigates the specifications and internal parts of their audio equipment? And maybe the Three Stooges in my younger years? Sure it was violent. But we all knew it was supposed to be funny. And not to hurt anybody. Except maybe with a pie? And sometimes those tasted good.

Better tasting than my feet.
Wrong Way Nancy

dvdhawk thinks it should work, which sounds like its a faulty mic but I don't know. I think this mic is neither hot or a low output (like most ribbon mics per-say). Its right in the middle and needs a preamp to do it justice.

If you don't use a a good pre-amp, this mic and most lower end mics usually sounds like tin. The mass who buy lower end mics also use lower end converters and and preamps. Most mics rarely get accurate and justice reviews because the mass use substandard gear more than they do, pro.

Most mics sound way better with a good to excellent micpre. ALL mics sound tinny through cheap pre-amps and poor converters.

Here,
http://www.seelectronics.com/news/2012/04/01/rode-nt1a-or-se-x1-simon-franglen-avatar-madonna-titanic

This is obviously an ad shilling gear, so don't believe it entirely. But, notice the mic pre's used in this. They cost a few thousand for 2 channels.

In the name of preserving Pro audio and demystifying some of the confusion over mic's coined as tinny, harsh, bright "",

Don't believe much of what you read until you confirm what people are using in a chain. Most everything we read is subjective and full of misleading support bias to support of purchase over accuracy of what a product really performs like.

Just as an example, my favourite Mic Pre's cost $4500.00 for 2 channels. I can put a $70 mic through it and the mic sounds just great!! I can scream into it and it still sounds pretty damn good. Yet, someone using cheaper gear, screaming into it might not hear it anywhere to my result. Is it the mic or the Pre?

When you use great gear, pretty much anything will get the job done to acceptable standard today. Keep your levels down and its surprising how good cheap gear can sound until it burns out.

Hope that helps a bit.

remy - yes, the 1/4" TRS adapter was a valid question

audiokid (& dvdhawk) - thanx again!

Regarding the sensitivity of the mic and suggestions of a preamp. The Rode NT1 (latest version) has a sensitivity rating of 35mv/Pa. The AT4040 has a sensitivity of 25.1mv/Pa. The NT1 has a hotter output than the AT4040, so if the AT4040 was able to have sufficient gain with the interface that was used, the NT1 should need less gain.

The NT1 specs states it works on 48v or 24v (oddly they don't say a range of 24v to 48v), so if the alleged 48v from the interface were to be loaded down, but still could provide 24v or greater the mic should function. Most phantom power designs put current limiting resistors in its output and the effect of higher current draw to the mic will decrease the available voltage to the mic simply since due to the voltage drop across the limiting resistors. My own AT4040 is speced at 4.2ma@48v. The NT1 is supposedly around the ballpark of 5.5ma@48v. Another issue is if the computers USB can not kick out adequate current for the interface, then it may not be able to provide the minimum 24v needed. I did have an older desktop with a Tascam US144mkii plugged in that was OK with a dynamic mic, but plugging in a condenser dragged down the USB and the mic wouldn't work. A powered USB hub at the time was the fix. If the interface worked with the AT4040, the NT1 shouldn't seem to present a problem with voltage or current draw.

Biasing on the mic's capsule is through some very high value resistors. Humidity in the air that settles on the capsule or the circuit board providing the bias voltage could conceivably reduce the voltage and possibly cause a low output among other problems such as noise. Right out of the box if there is a difference in air temperature to the mic, perhaps it caused some condensation on the internals. Dry the mic out and see if things change.

It would be a real chuckle if Rode somehow got the capsule in backwards. Try the backside of the mic :D.

I'd be the last one qualified to teach a class, but Remy is right to point out the difference between the specified voltage and enough current to have that voltage do any 'work'.

Did Rode Support ever get back to you?

After you explain the common-sense diagnostics you've already done on your own, (especially when you say their competitor's mic, the A-T 4040 worked under the exact same circumstances) I'll be surprised if they don't say 'sorry for the inconvenience, please send it back ASAP'.

If you bought it at a brick & mortar store, I'd take it back and have them test it there and exchange it on the spot (assuming it doesn't work for them either).

Exactly.

The cable, voltage and what Remy was pointing to was one of my first points. Remy is brilliant, just not always an easy read following the good stuff she shares. And I should talk.:notworthy:

Thank you all so much for your help! I have returned the mic and the Alesis io4 and am kinda back where I started, save all the things I learned from you fine people. :-)

I'm thinking the Tascam US-1800 might work better for me as far as interfaces go. I may go with the NT-1 or the NT-1a to replace my bunk NT-1.

Any recommendations for a large 1" cardioid condenser mic in roughly the same price range?

dvdhawk, post: 418214, member: 36047 wrote: I'd be the last one qualified to teach a class, but Remy is right to point out the difference between the specified voltage and enough current to have that voltage do any 'work'.

Whilst Remy was quite right to raise the point about voltage, the NT1 is supposed to work with a voltage as low as 24V however the current is something else. Phantom power is ALWAYS supplied via series resistors (usually 6.8 Kilohms) in the two balanced hot and cold connections. This (by design) limits the current available with ALL phantom powered mic's and such a mic must ALWAYS be designed to work with these resistors, hence the supposed requirement for enough current is an entirely moot point.

This is a completely different scenario to powering all our other equipment as these will always need the correct voltage AND enough current capability.

Paul, post: 418331, member: 48153 wrote:
Any recommendations for a large 1" cardioid condenser mic in roughly the same price range?

I tend to like transformer coupled mics for vocals and I've found this one works well for my voice........
sE Electronics 2200a II Cardioid Condenser Microphone

Not easy to buy a mic without trying it out, so I've mostly gone on forum recommendations and reviews at retailers.
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.sweetwat…"]Some sE Electronics sE2200a II C Reviews[/]="http://www.sweetwat…"]Some sE Electronics sE2200a II C Reviews[/]

I also do have the old version Rode NT1 and I can't complain about how it sounds either. Maybe a little bit crisper than than the sE2200. I don't know if the new version sounds similar or not.

Thanx, MarkF48...I appreciate the recommendation! I'll check it out!

Where is all this rubbish about pre-amps coming from. To get ANY mic output up to a level that's useful, some form of pre-amp is required. Conventionally we use amplifiers from line to higher levels, and those designed to get low level signals up to line go before the next amplifier in the chain, hence the term pre-amplifiers. Every mic input will have a pre-amp if it also has line level inputs. The quality factor is about how good a pre-amp is, NOT if there is one. The cheapest interface has a pre-amp, just one with a poorer signal to noise ratio, harmonic distortion and the other less pleasant artefacts. It now seems common for external specialist high quality pre-amps to be what many people call 'pre-amps', but I have a two channel real cheap pre-amp in my tools, to get me out of trouble from time to time - it's just not brilliant sounding!

Paul, post: 418331, member: 48153 wrote:
I'm thinking the Tascam US-1800 might work better for me as far as interfaces go. I may go with the NT-1 or the NT-1a to replace my bunk NT-1.

Personally... I wouldn't. As the owner of a Tascam 1641 - the predecessor to the 1800 - and having worked with more than a few 1800's at various client's basement studios, I can tell you that it doesn't come close to other preamp I/O's that are out there these days in and around a similar price class.

Tascam pres are weak, lack headroom, and are noisy when cranked... and the converters are what I would describe as merely "get by" quality.

After recently switching from a 1641 to a Presonus 1800VSL, I can say with full confidence that the Tascam doesn't even come close in terms of quality/fidelity. The Tascam 1641 was great at giving choked and thin sounding audio... so if that's the sound you are after - LOL - then yeah, go for the 1800.

You'd be much better off to look at either a Focusrite or a Presonus. Both of these have preamps that far outshine anything that Tascam has ever made for digital, and the converters, for the price, are stellar.
You may have to downsize your channel count to get closer to the price you seek, but trust me, it would be worth having only 4-8 channels of high quality, Class A Focusrite or Presonus preamps- over 16 channels of Tascam with weak, thin sounding pre amps and fizzy-sounding converters.

I'm ony telling you this because I know first-hand. Take it for what it's worth. :)

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FireStuProj/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SaffPro40/

IMHO of course.

d/

Get yourself an audio technica 3035 used its a hundred or less, and far more versatile than the nt1a. I own both, and the at sees use, the nt1a doesn't. It's got an overblown midrange, and a questionably brittle top. The at has an exaggerated top, but is smoother overall, and for that price, get 2!!!