i use a pc because i work with autocad but for audio only there's no better thing than the new G5!
as for software you have many to choose! i hear logic is great too

but for audio only there's no better thing than the new G5!

That's an old wives tale. In the days before XP and 2K the Mac's were much more stable making them better suited to alot of things including audio. The Unix based OS with the RISC processor was also more efficient than 9X with a CISC processor. But the tables have turned and actually the P4-3.2's out perform the G5's by a mile. So much so that Apple began cheating on their benchmark tests. :shock:

Now to be fair to MAC's I use both in my job and can honestly say I don't think one is better or worse than the other. There are those who will argue that their platform is best (usually out of ignorance)it's not, they're just different. Now if someone would start writing code for Linux audio programs we could say goodbye to the other two. 8-)

The important thing is not so much which platform is best but which are you more comfortable with. If your using PC's currently why change. If your a MAC user why would you want to learn a whole new OS and vice versa. Learning a new OS is fine for a hobby but it sounds like this is for professional use and in that case I would stick with what I know. There are many MAC and PC users on this forum who use what they use because they like it and are comfortable with it, you should do the same.

Good luck with your choice. :D

Yeah, it all comes down to what you know and are comfortable with.
Basically, a PC will give you more grunt, but you have to do a lot more tweaking than you do on the Mac to get it running at optimum speed.

As mentioned above... stability is no longer an issue. I too, use both at work (newspaper production) and I honestly believe that the Macs crash more often than the PCs. But they are old G3s.

Lets compare Apples to Apples and stop talking about things that this guy will not buy, like G3's.

The question G5 or PC?

I have set up and used both platforms with Pro Tools HD systems.

The question is, do you want your software to load and your hardware to work immediately without tweaking? Go Mac. Or, do you want to have to get the latest drivers and work-arounds for getting your box full of components to work together with the software?

Will a 2GHz Mac outperform a 2GHz PC runnging PT? I couldn't tell a difference on a TDMII system. Do all plug-ins have the exact same functions/options on both platforms? Nope. Mac wins out there.

If you are going to have your machine hooked up to the internet for downloads, etc, you will want the Mac. When's the last time that you heard Apple on the nightly news claiming security issues, worms and virus warnings, etc? Never.

Which has more through-put? Mac. Which has the capacity for 8GHz of RAM in the future without a full architecture redesign? Mac. Soon hard drive access and write speeds will really be moot.

OK, If we're doing the Apples to Apples thing, then his question suggests to me that he's looking at an ProtoolsLE setup. If he's going TDM/HD, then yes, I wouldn't even look at a PC...... Mac all the way.
But.... If it's LE, then PCs crap on Macs for performance fr host based systems. MY PC straight out of the box (no tweaking) could run half again as many plugins as my mate's G5. And after some very minor tweaks the gap got wider. And just to set the record straight, whilst recording and mixing an identical session on both machines simaltaneously, both systems were rock solid and didn't skip a beat until the G5 decided it was running quite enough plugins thanks, while I continued to load in verbs and samplers etc. just to see how far the PC would go.

With PLTE6.7 the feature gap is almost non-existant, and even the die-hard Mac-only plugin developers like McDSP have realised that there's a lot of money to be made by porting to the PC. We are expecting McDSP for XP any day now.

thank you

thanks for the insight everyone.

Once again it comes down to what you are used to- in my own case I have been working with digital performer since the early 90's and since DP is only for the mac a pc is not an option for me. I did own a couple of pcs once and used them a bit but found them problematic after using macs for so long- I gave one to my wife and the other to one of the engineers at the studio that used it a lot for whatever- 8)

the only time i regret not having a pc is when cool programs are available for pc only- that used to be the case with giga studio but now that I have mach five I don't need giga :D

Like sheet said, if this thing is going to touch anything else besides music (especially internet)...it's a pretty simple decision...get the imac. If it's pro tools only, build a PC.

Lets compare Apples to Apples and stop talking about things that this guy will not buy

OK, Lets compare Apples to PC's. As I and others have stated it comes down to what you are comfortable with. I personally like both platforms. But someone always seems to want to convince everyone of the inferiority of PC's with misinformatin.

The question is, do you want your software to load and your hardware to work immediately without tweaking? Go Mac. Or, do you want to have to get the latest drivers and work-arounds for getting your box full of components to work together with the software?

The inability to adjust perfromance is exactly what is wrong with MAC's. Do you really think Steve Jobs knows better than you how a DAW should perform. I think not. In addition one of the main reasons so little software exists for MAC's (besides a tiny market) is the fact that Apple provides no driver support. While PC code is constantly evolving to take better advantage of hardware performance. So if you don't like improvement I agree, Go Mac. Now MAC does make improvements every few years and Mr. Jobs makes sure none of your old software is compatible with his new system and OS. So if you like emptying your wallet, Go MAC. I don't have issues with any of my gear but then again I know how to build a system properly.

Will a 2GHz Mac outperform a 2GHz PC runnging PT? I couldn't tell a difference on a TDMII system. Do all plug-ins have the exact same functions/options on both platforms? Nope. Mac wins out there.

Let's compare the best from each instead. Mac = 2.5 GHz, Intel = 3.4 GHz. That's 900 MHz difference. Your not making up for that with software. Intel has the newest P4's in the pipeline for testing, Apple has nothing. The perfromance gap will only grow wider. PT? Well again if you like to empty your wallet for inferior sound quality every few years go right ahead. A MAC and PT sound like a great combo.

If you are going to have your machine hooked up to the internet for downloads, etc, you will want the Mac. When's the last time that you heard Apple on the nightly news claiming security issues, worms and virus warnings, etc? Never.

:shock:

Your kidding right? MAC's don't get attacked as frequently because there are so few of them virus writers don't waste their time with them. Remember viruses are meant to affect as many computers as possible. Why would anyone but a total idiot write a virus for the tiny MAC population, although it has happened alot more than you think. If you think for one second that you are safer on the internet with a MAC you are sadly mistaken. All OS's have holes that can be exploited by hackers. As a matter of fact OSX has more than XP or 2K because Microsoft fixes backdoors and Apple ignores them. A hacker doesn't care what platform you run they just want to get in. A firewall can help protect against hacking and anti virus software helps protect against viruses. But you are never 100% safe no matter what platform.

Which has more through-put? Mac. Which has the capacity for 8GHz of RAM in the future without a full architecture redesign? Mac. Soon hard drive access and write speeds will really be moot.

:?

I'm not quite sure what your trying to say but if you are infering MAC's have more throughput you need to stop reading Apple propaganda. Please read this to the bottom for the true benchmarks.

http://spl.haxial.net/apple-powermac-G5/

8GHz of RAM? That's nice, but why can't they get their processors to run any faster than 2.5GHz if they can get their RAM to run that fast. Perhaps it was a typo did you mean 8 GB's. Again very nice maybe they'll catch up to Intel soon at 12 GB's for single processor MOBO's. GHz represents Giga Hertz and refers to clock speed. GB on the other hand represents Giga Bytes and refers to capacity.

They both use the same drives so access and read/write should be the same unless the MAC's buses can't handle the throughput. Oh that's right the MAC's have more throughput so I wonder where the problem is.

The bottom line is the PC can kick the MAC's ass up and down the street all day long. It doesn't matter if it's PT, Cubase or any other audio program that runs on both platforms. If you prefer the MAC so be it, you are not alone. Just don't make outrageous claims of the MAC's superior performance when it is simply untrue.

Pope, whatever you decide you really can't go wrong both are excellent for audio. A PC is not difficult to setup (most have no issues) and provides the best performance but for absolute plug and play the MAC can't be beat. Good luck whichever you choose!
:D

Lets compare Apples to Apples and stop talking about things that this guy will not buy, like G3's.

Ok. But I have a Pmac Blue &White.
With a Pro Tools Mix +.
Since 2001, there are no way to this sh*T works fine.
OS 9, OS9.1, OS9.1.1, OS 9.2, OS9.2.1 and now OS9.2.2...

Every day is a war. Crash, crash, crash wow...
But really, the design looks good... The clients likes a lot...

Now I have bought a Athlon.
What I think ??

F*ck U Apple

okay in my years of computer tech the mac v. pc thing has been goin on for a long time. and i have found it comes down to _ things;
1 are you or some one you able to build a good PC rig if so go with PC if not go with mac
2 how mutch money can you spend i can build a PC for 5k that can out preforme a 5k mac
3 what (if any) computer experiance do you have?

i just built a new rig a PC it runs great why did i go PC? i have more experiance with pc i have more time than money, one thing that has always kept me from goin compleatly over to mac and that is software, i can not afford to buy all new software let alone learn all new software.

man, for the price of a g5 you could build a pc that would blow it out of the water in every category......

i dipends on who built it, yes i have built a pc that has blown away macs in real world test of rendering and sutch. however i would say that a dell would not.

Big_D wrote:

Lets compare Apples to Apples and stop talking about things that this guy will not buy

OK, Lets compare Apples to PC's. As I and others have stated it comes down to what you are comfortable with. I personally like both platforms. But someone always seems to want to convince everyone of the inferiority of PC's with misinformatin.

The question is, do you want your software to load and your hardware to work immediately without tweaking? Go Mac. Or, do you want to have to get the latest drivers and work-arounds for getting your box full of components to work together with the software?

The inability to adjust perfromance is exactly what is wrong with MAC's. Do you really think Steve Jobs knows better than you how a DAW should perform. I think not. In addition one of the main reasons so little software exists for MAC's (besides a tiny market) is the fact that Apple provides no driver support. While PC code is constantly evolving to take better advantage of hardware performance. So if you don't like improvement I agree, Go Mac. Now MAC does make improvements every few years and Mr. Jobs makes sure none of your old software is compatible with his new system and OS. So if you like emptying your wallet, Go MAC. I don't have issues with any of my gear but then again I know how to build a system properly.

Will a 2GHz Mac outperform a 2GHz PC runnging PT? I couldn't tell a difference on a TDMII system. Do all plug-ins have the exact same functions/options on both platforms? Nope. Mac wins out there.

Let's compare the best from each instead. Mac = 2.5 GHz, Intel = 3.4 GHz. That's 900 MHz difference. Your not making up for that with software. Intel has the newest P4's in the pipeline for testing, Apple has nothing. The perfromance gap will only grow wider. PT? Well again if you like to empty your wallet for inferior sound quality every few years go right ahead. A MAC and PT sound like a great combo.

If you are going to have your machine hooked up to the internet for downloads, etc, you will want the Mac. When's the last time that you heard Apple on the nightly news claiming security issues, worms and virus warnings, etc? Never.

:shock:

Your kidding right? MAC's don't get attacked as frequently because there are so few of them virus writers don't waste their time with them. Remember viruses are meant to affect as many computers as possible. Why would anyone but a total idiot write a virus for the tiny MAC population, although it has happened alot more than you think. If you think for one second that you are safer on the internet with a MAC you are sadly mistaken. All OS's have holes that can be exploited by hackers. As a matter of fact OSX has more than XP or 2K because Microsoft fixes backdoors and Apple ignores them. A hacker doesn't care what platform you run they just want to get in. A firewall can help protect against hacking and anti virus software helps protect against viruses. But you are never 100% safe no matter what platform.

Which has more through-put? Mac. Which has the capacity for 8GHz of RAM in the future without a full architecture redesign? Mac. Soon hard drive access and write speeds will really be moot.

:?

I'm not quite sure what your trying to say but if you are infering MAC's have more throughput you need to stop reading Apple propaganda. Please read this to the bottom for the true benchmarks.

http://spl.haxial.net/apple-powermac-G5/

8GHz of RAM? That's nice, but why can't they get their processors to run any faster than 2.5GHz if they can get their RAM to run that fast. Perhaps it was a typo did you mean 8 GB's. Again very nice maybe they'll catch up to Intel soon at 12 GB's for single processor MOBO's. GHz represents Giga Hertz and refers to clock speed. GB on the other hand represents Giga Bytes and refers to capacity.

They both use the same drives so access and read/write should be the same unless the MAC's buses can't handle the throughput. Oh that's right the MAC's have more throughput so I wonder where the problem is.

The bottom line is the PC can kick the MAC's ass up and down the street all day long. It doesn't matter if it's PT, Cubase or any other audio program that runs on both platforms. If you prefer the MAC so be it, you are not alone. Just don't make outrageous claims of the MAC's superior performance when it is simply untrue.

Pope, whatever you decide you really can't go wrong both are excellent for audio. A PC is not difficult to setup (most have no issues) and provides the best performance but for absolute plug and play the MAC can't be beat. Good luck whichever you choose!
:D

Right on Big_D. Your the man 8-)

i dipends on who built it, yes i have built a pc that has blown away macs in real world test of rendering and sutch. however i would say that a dell would not.

Frob, I posted this link earlier in the thread. Had you read it you would realize that even the Dell beats the MAC by a mile.

I still like my mac and plan to keep it for a long time... :D :D :D
and buy a new one when its time :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
but of course that is because I use Digital performer :P :P :P
and there is no dp for pc :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
but meanwhile my mac is way cool 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I still like my mac and plan to keep it for a long time...
and buy a new one when its time
but of course that is because I use Digital performer
and there is no dp for pc
but meanwhile my mac is way cool

I agree with you Xavier. You should use a MAC, you're familar with them and your software is only for MAC. Performance is not the only thing to consider. Neither is ease of use. If a MAC is fast enough for your uses than why switch to PC, for bragging rights? Ease of use isn't always preferable either sometimes the extra effort leads to more knowledge and better performance so why would this person switch to a MAC. It all comes down to personal choice (as I stated in my first post). You should buy based on your needs and comfort level with the platform. Buy what makes you happy.

Unfortunately whenever this subject is broached it starts a platform war and inevitably someone makes ridicoulos statements about PC's based on info from 1995 or worse just makes stuff up.
It almost always comes from someone who knows little to nothing about computers. I hope I didn't offend you (Xavier) or any other MAC owners as that was not my intent. I just wanted to set the record straight on PC's as that poster hasn't a clue as to what he's talking about and I don't want the person who started this thread to be mislead by that information.

For the record my first computer was a MAC and I still have it. I have since switched to PC's as I love to build and tune them to perfection (something I can't do with a MAC) but every once in a while I dig out the SE and have some fun. Isn't that what computers are all about, having fun, and being way cool too Xavier

no big the numbers just are not there to back you up on that one a top oh da money dell(not talking about a server dell model) could not beat a top oh da money mac, however for the money you would spend on the top of the line dell you could built one your self that could beat a mac easaly. at least accourding to the dell and apple web sites.

Big_D wrote: The bottom line is the PC can kick the MAC's ass up and down the street all day long. It doesn't matter if it's PT, Cubase or any other audio program that runs on both platforms.

Big_D
I'm not looking for a fight here ... but so what ?
Speed may not be the ultimate issue for many clients.
Even software apps that are supposed to be cross-platform like PT and Cubase and even Office may have some differences that may be of importance to a client.

I use both and always have ... in fact there was a time when I used 4 basic platforms.

Chose the software and most of the time the software will chose the hardware for you.

Back to the original question,
If you have friends or dominant clients that use particular soft/hard combinmations then you may want to lean that way for ease of transfers and delivery.

you say

... film scoring, Reason 2.5, recording/sequencing (cubase/protools). ...

reason/protools looks good on both platforms at the moment

I won't comment on cubase anymore as I stopped using it at 4.xx ... it just frustrated me with the basic eng mistakes it had. I hope those days are long gone.

film scoring
If your clients live in a FCP world them the Mac may have it.

plugs
if you want Virus and Ampfarm then again the Mac may have it.
get my point ?

last
as I said I run both and am HD capable and with multiple LE systems on both.

many of my recent recording were begun on LE/Reason and XP so I see no reason( :wink: ) why you can't go PC to keep cost down then look to Mac if the need arrises.
By which time you will have a clear understanding and probably won't need to ask here.

good luck
8-)

Big_D
I'm not looking for a fight here ... but so what ?
Speed may not be the ultimate issue for many clients.
Even software apps that are supposed to be cross-platform like PT and Cubase and even Office may have some differences that may be of importance to a client.

I use both and always have ... in fact there was a time when I used 4 basic platforms.

Chose the software and most of the time the software will chose the hardware for you.

Kev,
You must not have read my 2 other posts on this thread because if you had you would realize I AGREE WITH YOU! I made the same points you are making. The only reason for the post you qouted me on was to counter another post by someone claiming MAC's superiority over the PC in all areas including performance. I'm not looking for a fight either but when someone makes asinine statements like that poster did I will set the record straight for the sake of the person who started the thread as well as anyone else who might be fooled by it. I wrote this just above your post

I agree with you Xavier. You should use a MAC, you're familar with them and your software is only for MAC. Performance is not the only thing to consider. Neither is ease of use. If a MAC is fast enough for your uses than why switch to PC, for bragging rights? Ease of use isn't always preferable either sometimes the extra effort leads to more knowledge and better performance so why would this person switch to a MAC. It all comes down to personal choice (as I stated in my first post). You should buy based on your needs and comfort level with the platform. Buy what makes you happy.

It's cool Kev, no harm done, but please go back and read my other posts on this thread and you'll see we're on the same page :D

frob wrote: no big the numbers just are not there to back you up on that one a top oh da money dell(not talking about a server dell model) could not beat a top oh da money mac, however for the money you would spend on the top of the line dell you could built one your self that could beat a mac easaly. at least accourding to the dell and apple web sites.

Your kidding me right Frob. If you don't want to read the link I provided you then just say so. Don't tell me the numbers don't support me when I have provided you with very clear information to substantiate what I said (from very reliable and highly respected sources I might add). You on the other hand have provided nothing but manufactures advertising claims. Their claims are precisely the problem. This is what the link deals with.

In the industry we rate a computers performance on what are called benchmarks. These tests include CPU, Video performance, FPU and integer calculations as well as real world tests of software. The link I provided explains how Apple cheated on those tests (conducted by their own lab of course) by using compliers optimized for MAC's on the PC's, Disabling 1 processor on the Intels while running both on the MAC's and so forth. The benchmarks were retested by several independent labs and the numbers clearly showed that the MAC isn't even close. The claims Apple makes on their website have been banned in many countries around the world for false advertising. That's all I'm going to tell you. Read the article if you want the rest.

If you have something to bring to the table, some real numbers to show me (not Apple propaganda) that indicate I or these benchmarks are wrong I will gladly listen. If not then let's drop this okay. In other words put up or shut up (no offense intended).

Big_D wrote: ... The only reason for the post you qouted me on was to counter another post by someone claiming MAC's superiority over the PC in all areas including performance.

I know
it's hard to let things go without posting but sometimes it's just not worth it.

Speed is one of my pet subjects and I hope that one day we might be able to get past this speed for the sake of it.
For Audio the machines today can get enough done to just let it go.

Make some music.

As far as Video is concerned the decimal place will have to move a little to get multiple streams and real time rendering with full spec streams so some hardware is still necessary but we are fine with audio
... except for the latency and that is something each person will have to learn about and decide if they can live with it or not.
That's one of the reasons I still TDM but I am doing more and more on LE systems.

It's all good.

kev this will be my last post on the subject but i feel i need to clarify a couple of things this is probably what i should have said in the first place, big i agree with have read the article and know what a benchmark is and know that about every company that has tryed to hold onto its dynasty nVidia did the same thing and did 3dfx when they lost the 3D card preformance crown. but i stand by what i said as being a DELL out of the box IS NOT A PREFORMANCE PC but i know plenty of people who can build one; my point to the one who was asking is this: if you want the best and are staring form nothing buy a PC but not a prefab DELL or GATEWAY goto a smallcomputer store like "coumputer options" and have them built you one.

Speed is one of my pet subjects and I hope that one day we might be able to get past this speed for the sake of it.
For Audio the machines today can get enough done to just let it go.

Make some music.

Kev, My sentiments exactly

if you want the best and are staring form nothing buy a PC but not a prefab DELL or GATEWAY goto a smallcomputer store like "coumputer options" and have them built you one.

Frob, I tell the same thing to anyone who's asking.

Take Care Guys :D