None of the above.

IIRC, Sinatra used a U47. The closest mics to that today are the Soundelux E47 or the BLUE Cactus or BLUE Bottle with the B7 capsule.

I hope you 'll accept my apologies !!
When I discovered this forum, and posted here for the first time, I already had started this same thread on other sites.... (UAD forum: Art of recording: Which brand for a mike (vocal)** Macmusic.org: (English section: Studio hardware: same title...). And it turned out that this subject captured the interest of lots of people, many rather brilliant.... so that I spent most of my spare time on these sites... once again : sorry ......
(This is not a suggestion for you leave this forum !! don't mistake !!
As of today, here is where I am at:
it appears that the following mics are the most frequently recommended ones:
- Studio Projects: C3, TB1, T3.
- RODE NT2, NTK
- V69 M (Mogami)
At the upper floor:
- Neumann TLM 103
- as musicalhair put it: the big choice would be Blueberry...
My question now is:
- regarding to the price/quality ratio, which one of these would you choose ??
- regardless of the price which one would be your choice ??
Consider that the voice to be recorded is something between Elvis, Sinatra, and Dean Martin....
Thank you all for the replies you posted !!
Peter

Hi Jazzman....
Wandering through the web, I saw that Brauner boasts Sinatra recorded with a Brauner mic (I forgot whether it was a Phantom C....) maybe he just tried for a while !!
Thank you anyway !!
:) :)
Peter

Originally posted by peterpan:
these studio microphones is the best (for a male voice that could be compared to Elvis', Sinatra's....)

Peter

Peter,

If you can compare it to Elvis, how can you compare it to Sinatra? And vice versa?

Budget?

A lot of studios thsat do not have the good fortune to already own a stack of vintage Neumanns and AKGs are buying mics from Brauner, Korby, Lawson, etc, each of whom makes fine mics in classic styles from the past. You won't go wrong to investigate these choices if you have the budget to support them.

Otherwise, look at the oprions in your price range and ask again.

Bill

If I had a limited budget but wanted to capture that kind of sound, I would try a Shure SM7. I think that's a better bet than a budget condenser mic - they tend to sound a bit harsh.

In the same vein would be the EV RE20....deep rich and resonant.SM7 very good....One of the nice aspects to a great dynamic is the low self noise.Through a decent preamp a quality dynamic can go places with a voice that only the highest end condensers can equal.

An relatively affordable condenser that may be able to give you that dark clarity would be the ADK A48....Under a grand on the street.Voice would probably be its strong suit more than instruments and a particular voice may be more to its liking.This is a mic that wont sound 'right' with just any voice.But on the right voice it is golden.

Hi Peter, here are some examples of what Elvis and Sinatra used;

Elvis: RCA 77 (Sun recordings)
Electro-Voice models RE15, RE16, EV 635a
(RCA recordings)

Sinatra: RCA 44 (Columbia)
U47 tube (Capitol)
Beyer M500 (Reprise)
Shure 546 (Reprise) his main mic there
EV RE15 (Reprise)
Shure SM57 "Duets" (label?)

As Bill basically said, Elvis' voice and Sinatra's were quite different. Also Sinatra's microphone technique was phenomenal and Elvis was much weaker
in that regard. (both great singers certainly!)

My voice is pretty much the same range/tone as Sinatra's albeit somewhat mellower.

At NAMM, the Studio Projects T3 sounded like a knockout on it FWIW. Stood right up to my other
faves, the Telefunken USA reproduction of the
'251, and the Manley Reference Gold. They were terrific too, each with different coloration.

Hope this helps.

Chris

P.S. Just scored a mint Shure 546 off e-bay, due
to arrive soon.

Just remembered...

"Duets" was on Capitol.

Chris

As Bill basically said, Elvis' voice and Sinatra's were quite different.

Of course I agree with that statement !!
But I did not say that my voice was LIKE Elvis or Sinatra's !! I said it was between... just a way to say that, depending on the tune it sounds sometimes like Elvis' and sometimes like Sinatra's... does that make sense to you ?? :)

I am still going on my quest...
My price range is from 400 to 700 $. So I think (Hi Chessparov ! :) ) The T3 could be a real good choice, that's it ??
On the other hand, I heard so enthusiastic comments about the Blue mics, specially the Blueberry, that maybe I could wait a while and save money to buy it ???
I'll look on the web about the EV, which I never heard of...
Thanks to all,
Peter :c:

Hi Peter, here are some examples of what Elvis and Sinatra used;
Elvis: RCA 77 (Sun recordings)
Electro-Voice models RE15, RE16, EV 635a
(RCA recordings)
Sinatra: RCA 44 (Columbia)
U47 tube (Capitol)
Beyer M500 (Reprise)
Shure 546 (Reprise) his main mic there
EV RE15 (Reprise)
Shure SM57 "Duets" (label?)

Thank you for the info Chessparov.
How come you are so aware of all this ??? :)

Regards

Peter

Originally posted by peterpan:

...it sounds sometimes like Elvis' and sometimes like Sinatra's... does that make sense to you ?? :)

The reason why that doesn't make sense to anyone but you is that you hear yourself in a certain way, but we have only heard Sinatra and Elvis, not you. Sinatra was a very bright and open-throated singer, who articulated every sylable and was a master of the phrase. Elvis mumbled. They are pitched differently. We have no basis here.. it's like saying, "Well, its somewhere between black and white...." Right. We got it. Not. Can you see our trouble?

You might look at some of the AT offerings in this price range. I'm not familiar myself, but Lynn Fuston seems quite taken with the line, and often recommends them.

Bill

blue mics can work wonders on certain voices but don't sound so good on others- in your price range (and your vocal range) I would rent a baby bottle (500 street) dragon fly (700) blueberry (1K) and see if one of those do the trick- sometimes the baby bottle is just right...

Peter, my thinking is that if certain microphones worked well for certain singers, then they would probably be fine on me with a similar sound-hence the research.

For example, a singing friend of mine sounds reminiscient of Steve Tyler and Paul Rodgers, so I expected him to sound excellent on my SM57 (he did) as both these singers do.

With a $700 budget, I'd make sure to include trying the SP T3. There are probably dealers out there with a liberal return policy if you don't have a local dealer handy. If you get good dynamic microphones, like the ones listed, used you can normally get what you paid for them (sometimes more!). So those are easy to try out with hardly any risk involved, if you're careful.

What kind of mic pre and/or mixer are you using?
You'll need phantom power on most condensers.

Chris

Maintiger, I think I 'll follow your advice. But I'll also compare with the T3, which has very very good reviews anywhere on the net

Bill,
If you wish so, send me your address and I'll send you a CD, just for you to see (hear) that things are not always clearly cut.

Hi Chris, your post went in as I was writing mine!!

With a $700 budget, I'd make sure to include trying the SP T3. There are probably dealers out there with a liberal return policy if you don't have a local dealer handy. If you get good dynamic microphones, like the ones listed, used you can normally get what you paid for them (sometimes more!). So those are easy to try out with hardly any risk involved, if you're careful.
What kind of mic pre and/or mixer are you using?
You'll need phantom power on most condensers.
Chris

My current mic (I'm ashamed...):
Audiotechnica ATM 10a (very small)
My preamp is UK made: Hooter Sounds B1 (has compressor, noise gate, limiter,and phantom power too...)

Peter, sorry didn't pay attention till now that you're in France. It would be smart then to go to
Studio Projects website to locate the international dealers in your area.
Alan has his own forum here BTW (PMI).

At the NAMM show in Anaheim, I hung out for a bit with Alan, Brent, and Justin at their SP booth.
While there (ham that I am!) sang for several pro studio owners/engineers, and the head of a music department in a Northern California college
(he sounded great through the T3-fellow singer).

As a result (or in spite of heh heh) the vocal "demonstration" two of the three said they were getting a T3 for sure, and the other was going to try to talk his business partner into getting one.

Chris

Thank you Chris for locating me !! ;)
As for SP dealers I already know where to find them... nevertheless, advices of outside, independant people is what I'm looking for, and that's the interest of forums such as this one!!
BTW could you give me he address of Alan's site, if you have it ??
Thank you very much,
Regards

Peter

I forgot to ask you one thing Chris: when it comes to record vocal, and only vocal, is the sound of T3 really different from TB1 (only cardoid while its big brother is multi pattern)??
Thanks

Sure Peter.

Alan has a number of websites, including Studio Projects and Joe Meek, you can locate by going to http://www.pmiaudio.com

Studio Projects can also be found via http://www.studioprojectsusa.com

In my limited exposure to both tube mic's, the TB1 sounded more "neutral" than the T3. It sounded very nice indeed, but I loved the T3's coloration.
Bottom line is that they sounded very different.

Since the T3 can also be omni, you could sell your omni AT for some more $$ towards the T3 unless you still need it elsewhere.

Chris

Originally posted by peterpan:
...for SP dealers I already know where to find them... nevertheless, advices of outside, independant people is what I'm looking for, ...

Regards

Peter

I can't tell you anything about the TB, but I have a B-1. I took it into the Benedum Center for the Performing Arts and we used it on a sax solo that was part of a specially-commisioned ballet fot the Pittsburgh Ballet ... the sole surviving member of a classic jazz group played sax live along with backing tapes of the original group. High-profile gig.

This is the kind of situation where the house would normally have pulled out a studio quality high dollar Neumman, AKG, etc. I did not tell them until after the rehersal that the price of the mic was so low. The house sound engineer was very pleased with the sound, and used it for the performances. Where they had the ability to use anything of any price point, they chose the B1.

In addition, I want to say that I got superior consideration from SP when I had a problem. I ran into Mr Casey at a trade show. He didn't know me and has no reason to treat me any differently than any one else, and he obviously had a lot on his mind in trying to sell new microphones to store owners. I am not a store owner, and was not buying. But I mentioned the problem that I was having with my B1.

A few days after the show, the part arrived at the studio to repair the problem.

That impressed me a great deal, and spoke volumes about the committment they have to their product line and customer support.

Bill

Hey Chris, great to see you posting in this site. By the way, I still love my Beyer X1N. I also got hold of a Beyer m88. On my voice (like yours, as I recall) its the bee's knee's! Extreemly fine!

Now, Peter, I've found Chris' advise to be very helpful. As you can see, he nailed some mic tones I was searching for. Personally, I would also second the BLUE baby bottle. Another mic to check out is the mxl v69. I know Kurt has concerns about the v69, but I've had very good experiences with mine. Just another something to consider in your quest for the perfect tone.

Tom

Originally posted by shortyprs:
... I also got hold of a Beyer m88. On my voice (like yours, as I recall) its the bee's knee's! Extreemly fine!

Tom

Yeah, I've been using an 88 for my voice live for 20 years. Just a wonderful sound. I use their 69 the way most Americans use a 57... the 69 is my all purpose mic.

Bill
Bill

Thanks for the kind words shortyprs, good to see you here also and that you're enjoying both those mic's.

"Oddly" enough, guess who were the two posters who influenced me to get a M88 (M88TG specifically)...

None other than Bob Ohlsson and Bill Park!
(on other BBS boards-thanks guys)

Did try out the V69ME at NAMM, and thought it was also very nice (like the TB1). It has a darker coloration compared to the TB1.

BTW Bill I spoke to a Beyer technician regarding the difference between the "classic" version, and the TG. He assured me that ONLY the basket is different. Element, transformer, et al is otherwise the same, per our conversation.

Been starting to lean towards the "darker" side of coloration as a personal preference on me, vs. neutral or bright. This is a result of beginning to re-train my voice to a deeper baritone, which is its natural placement.

Chris

Originally posted by chessparov:

...beginning to re-train my voice to a deeper baritone, which is its natural placement.

Chris

Chris,

good luck on that. Do you know the story of Wayne Newton? He had a couple of hits in the 60s, real top of his register stuff. He went along with his faltering career, getting less and less work. Finally he got a new manager who asjed him why he was singing everything at the top of his range when he had such a nicer, richer voice in his lower registers. He said that he didn't know, repitched much of his material, started working lower..... and rekindled his career which lead to his current success and multi-millions. Good luck.

Bill

Danke schoen Bill!

Yes, and recently I found an old tape of me singing "Mack The Knife", which sounded hilarious because it sounded so much like a (unintentional) early Wayne Newton imitation. It was done about 20 years ago (I'm 45).

Fitting, however, since as you may know Bobby Darin
wrote "Danke Schoen".

Chris

The reason why that doesn't make sense to anyone but you is that you hear yourself in a certain way, but we have only heard Sinatra and Elvis, not you. Sinatra was a very bright and open-throated singer, who articulated every sylable and was a master of the phrase. Elvis mumbled. They are pitched differently. We have no basis here.. it's like saying, "Well, its somewhere between black and white...." Right. We got it. Not. Can you see our trouble?

I thought I had replied to you, Bill, but it looks like it is not here !!
About a voice who could have something of Mr So and so and someone else, if you wish so, I can send you one CD (in this case just give me your adress!!)
Thank you anyway for your nice replies, they are a great help !!

Peter

I beg your pardon Bill... looking back more closely in this thread I found a similar message posted 3days ago. So forget the latest one !! :)

To all, and specially to Chessparov and Bill Park, after all I could read through the web about how much the SP T3 is good mic, and given my price range, I ordered one today.
I'll give you more definite thanks when I have it here and can hear what it sounds like (or rather how it makes my voice sound !! :)

See you soon ....

Best of luck with it Peter.
I have a feeling you'll really like it.

BTW, be sure to read the owner's manual thoroughly before using it, especially as it has its own separate phantom power supply.

Chris

Yes !! The dealer, knowing that my preamp can provide a phantom power supply, already briefed me about this.

Thanks !!!

Peter

Chess and Bill, and all who kindly posted something here,
I received my T3 yesterday, and started to get to know it. It is totally different from the previous mic that I had. Richer, warmer, with more bass, but it seems less high frequencies (vocals).
Also what is a bit confusing at the moment is how different the result with regard to the distance of the source.
It seems we must take some time to find the best distance.
But I only tried it for a few minutes and I am beginning to feel it is really a good tool... :)

Thank you all, you have been very helpful !!
Cheers :c:

Peter

Thanks Peter.
Best of luck with your musical endeavors.

Keep us posted!

Chris

soon alan will tell us what he has to make the T3 even better

As for me.... it is all going great !! I've never been recorded so well.... however.... (there is always a however somewhere isn'it ?? :) ... Iam happy that I have Pultec (on my UAD-1 card) to bring some clarity by boosting the 10-12 Kcs a bit...
This said: this mic is gorgeous...
One danger: what next when I want to improve things after things ??
:)

Ooooppps ! sorry : I meant : " after THIS ".... :roll:

That's terrific Peter.

Other than continuing to work on your vocals, as that never ends for any of us(!), finding a great "room" to record in is more important than pre's, etc.

Chris

Thanks Chris...

Other than continuing to work on your vocals, as that never ends for any of us(!), finding a great "room" to record in is more important than pre's, etc.

It's true, working our singing seems to be a Penelope's work !!
I'll think about a "great room" a bit later since for now I am doing it all in my home office. :) :p
Peter