the black page?

I don't actually know the name of the song, got the groove from Dan Parry (been doing lessons with him for three years and he still keeps it fresh). Thanks RM- are you a drummer? David

ten summoners tales by sting,has quite a few killer odd time grooves.

if you are into heavier stuf check out tools, schism. it's 6/4 time but it shifts from phrasing of 7/8,and 5/8 which make 6/4 but then flips to full 6/4 later on, then back again

.if you are total odd time nutbar check out anything by planet x. i don't even want to try explaining that stuff. donati is friggin heavy, at odd times.

also, any steve smith videos out there, especially the new 2 dvd set are great for odd time and metric modulations.

chris perra

I am a hand dummer also and play the djembe and the darbukah(doumbek) so I am vey accustomed to odd times (7/8,10/9, 13/9 etc.) In West African percussion it is all poly-rhythmic (6/8 against 2/4 against 3/4 against 4/4) and the downbeats often don't cycle and meet up for several measures. I occassionally will play some of these poly-rhythms on my kit between the kick and hats on 6/8, the right and playing the dunnun patrns on my floor toms with my right hand (4/4) and adding the djembe accents to the snare and rack toms with my left hand (2/4). I ever though I could do it, but it became rather easy since I am used to hearing the pattens and the hands and feet just go there.
PROBLEM: Your other musicians NEED to know what you're doing or they'll get lost. Most guitarists and keybord people are listening for that heavy downbeat always being in the same place and the idea of circular timing is new to them. drummers are constantly being accused of screwing up the beat anyway when they play open rolls or patterns to fill, so the other musicians need to be initiated into this thinking and then all sorts of possibiities will open up. (You can't do it against a click track, it requires an old fashioned thing called "communication") It also forces your "lead" players to stop thinking about just themselves for a bit and to start listening to the others and interacting.

Originally posted by David_Doc_Herbert:
Thanks RM- are you a drummer? David

tecnically....no, I'm a singer. But I'd been playin air drums for so long that I actually can sit down and keep excellant time. And I can program arrange good parts. Unless there's a real pro in the room then I shut up and enjoy...unless I'm producing, then I'm forced top be more proactive.

I wish i was...I LIKE drums. Never sounds better to me than basic tracks, with just drums & Bass.

Rimshot,
Very cool, your limb independence must be stellar. Have you ever heard Critters Buggin' from Seattle?
RecorderMan,
I started out as an airdrummer too, then graduated to airhead. Or was it the other way around? David

so I am vey accustomed to odd times (7/8,10/9, 13/9 etc.)

What, pray tell, is a "ninth note"?

.nick

lol, millionValve,
I know it sounds silly, but it does exist (sort of). In Middle Eastern rhythms there is a specific rhythm called "Karshlimar" which is sometimes played in 13/9 but is usually played in 9/8. It is a compromise for western time signatures. The actual Middle-Eastern drummers count time in groups, i.e.: 3 beats,1 beat, 5 beats, 4 beats. We just add them all up and find the cadance which is 9 beats. It's actually a very easy rhythm once you hear it, I teach it to beginners. It just sounds like it would be difficult.

-Jeff

10/9 or 13/9 would'nt be like the western worlds idea of note values. for example, an 8th note for us regular joes means that when played or rested it is equal to 1/8th of a bar in 4/4 time.

10/9 means that you would play a polyrythm, or a pattern based of a polyrythm. you would play ten notes in the same time as 9. at the same time together to create the basic. pulse/rythm foundation.

then you can divide each pulse into smaller groups. to create more diverse patterns.

this is definitley easier said than done.

chris perra

Guys-

My horizons have been expanded!

Thanks.

.nick

I am intrigued... Any audio examples of this? Even a midi would do.

Here is an interesting link.

http://

David

Here is a link to a very interesting and long webpage that includes midi clips. It's all about Middle-Eastern rhythms and he has the more typical notation of "karislama" (var. spelling) as a 9/8. He explains in his site how the Middle-Eastern world counts musical time.
go to:

http://www.ghawazee.org/rhy/rhythm.html

There are several rhythms there in 11 and 16 and even one in 25. (yes, that's 25)

Oh, and Doc,
I'm not that especially coordinated, it's not as difficult when I play 2/4 against 4/4 against 6/8 because they cycle fairly quickly and they line up real nice. Since I'm SO used to the music, I know where each note needs to be. If I was trying to throw a 5/4 or 9/8 time in there.....I think I'd hurt myself :)

-Jeff

Great! Thanks for the link.