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anonymous 7 January 2002

I need opinions on the best 2-bus comp. The Manley seems to have a good rep but I'm concerned with the tube issue and the questions of low end mud. The Crane Song seems to be where I'm leaning. I do mostly Alt rock. Just got off the phone with the Smart distributor. I respect the SSL sound and the people who have scored with it...ie Lord-Alge but it might have too much of a distressor like crunch. Any comments welcome.
Tim

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Comments

erockerboy Tue, 01/08/2002 - 00:51

I'm really diggin' the Smart C2. I also have the Cranesong STC-8, which is certainly a nice piece... it's just that the Smart box gives me the 'flavor' I like on the 2-bus, more often than the Cranesong.

Horses for courses though. To me the Smart is definitely a 'color' piece and the Cranesong is more of a 'transparent gain control' piece. More often than not the Smart is the right choice for the pop/R&B/hiphop stuff I work on. I could see the Cranesong being preferable for someone whose focus was more organic/acoustic stuff.

Repeat after me:

"Y....

M....

M....

V!"

anonymous Tue, 01/08/2002 - 12:34

It's funny that you mention Lord-Alge..he mixed four songs on my record...I carefully studied what he has in terms of outboard stuff.He doesn't like to have people in the control room when he's working(understandably I guess) That's why all the biggies that are sending baby bands to corporate radio use Chris...He really "distresses" the hell out of the mix which makes the A&R people shout with joy because it sounds "more agressive". I have to say, our mixes sonically whipped some ass...sound PHENOMENAL on radio. I wondered what the actual mechanism of that "colored sound" was. He has a lot of gear. But I thought when I was in L.A. in the studio, wouldn't it be funny if he has all this outboard stuff and it's really going through some ART unit or something! He has a pretty distingushable style. I would love to understand the nuts and bolts of it.

Guest Tue, 01/08/2002 - 15:53

Non mix bus use.....

I have an SSL hardware comp, (basicaly Alan Smart ish) Anyhoo I use it on OH, Bass tracking sometimes, & acc gtr sometimes...

And now back to the mix squashing.

To use the SSL or Alan Smart you kinda become a slave of its own unique action.. (and you gotta say it's a pretty good one)

IT - mixes -YOU

It's a very particular 'thang'

If you are looking to 'commersh up' your sound
that could be the box for you & your clients. For alt rock you could do a lot worse.

FWIW - when I bought one, I used it for bass or overheads (only in a very dead room) while tracking, than come mixdown - on drum comp group - I got that cymbal decay ala pearljam, drummers LOVE it. That got me QUITE ENOUGH of it's sound on my mixes...

Now I am all PT I use it on OH while tracking and (now rarely) as an analog insert across the PT mix bus.

The Cranesong represents perhaps the smarter 'all rounder' buy. I bet it is MUCH more use at tracking time due to it's versatility.

:)

anonymous Tue, 01/08/2002 - 21:45

Originally posted by Noel Hartough:
It's funny that you mention Lord-Alge..he mixed four songs on my record...I carefully studied what he has in terms of outboard stuff.He doesn't like to have people in the control room when he's working(understandably I guess) That's why all the biggies that are sending baby bands to corporate radio use Chris...He really "distresses" the hell out of the mix which makes the A&R people shout with joy because it sounds "more agressive".

What do you mean by "distresses the hell out of the mix? Do you mean he has a lot of El8's and uses them on lots of stuff?

anonymous Wed, 01/09/2002 - 02:33

Pendulum Audio ES8 Vari-Mu limiter is excellent for 2-bus work, very Hi Fi and adds valve warmth to Pro-Tools with broad stereo image and very transparent compression at gentle thresholds, remember there is no ratio on a vari-Mu but the slope changes with degree of threshold reduction. It has transformed some of my mixes and is good for tracking

James Cullen

Nimrod Audio

anonymous Mon, 04/29/2002 - 15:22

AHHHH 2-bus compression... my favourite topic

I too like many others am still in the honey moon period of the C2...... i hope io dont get sick of it cos it really is fantastic. It really is the bizzo for the
2-bus compression and also a bit of tracking. As Jules so rightly said you really need to know how an why this compressor operates(like all good compressors) becuase it can be rather savage to your mixes if you really are not too carefull will flatten your mix before u know it and make it sound like it has been through a whole chain of FM radio limters.. but having said that it is THE sound of a comercial 'polished' record. U must know this compressor inside out o make it work best for you, only then will all the tumblers on the 'compression safe' open up the vast potential of this compressor and the results will then speak for themselves.

RE: Lord Alges ..... i met TLA recently when he was in Melbourne mixing a few tracks for some buddies of mine and boy does he dig compression... yeah i know he has like 51 compressors back at his studio in Miami but he LOVES distressors they are the signature component of the LA sound for both CLA and TLA... they are serious EL8 slutz. But it still sounds great so who cares?

As for other faves on the stereo bus. I recently got a manly variable MU. VERY NICE..... no where as agressive or 'upfront' as a smart C2 but its like smothering a mix completely in a fine layer of swiss choclate 9 or soemthing else that is refined and sweet sounding whilst addding a glueing or compounding fucntion) It has a slight euophonic and Hi Fi sound and is pretty damn transparent and has a quality 15dB makeup gain ouput amp. Just adds that glue to make the mix sit and gell. Tres` Bien!!!!

Avalon 747 is not too bad either but definately from the subtle camp like the variable MU. The compression charactersitics are very slow and gentle and the same goes with the attack and release, so much so that i genreally find it to be relagated to tracking instruments with gentle parts rather than doing any severe 'taming'. I have had great results from setting up the C2 to get the mix all punchy and vibey and then piping that into 747 for more gentle gain redultion, level and Eq..... the EQ is the best thing about the 747, i use to do some gentle sculpting and adding a bit of air to mixes , whilst removing some 'offending' frequencies.

BTW: has anyone tried the new API 2500 stereo comp... i have read that it is meant to whoop some major ass but i cant find one locally and the local oz ditributor does nothave one in stock yet.....opinions pls..... :D

ALSO.... i have about to move my studio in with a mate who has a neve baby and another variable MU.....as well as enough outboard to reach the moon and back...I am going to do a mix out of both Alishad and 2" through first variable Mu into smart C2 then into second variable Mu to 1/4" ATR100. I will let you know how it goes and may even put up some MP3's or something if enough people are interested?

PEACE
Wiggy :D

MadMoose Mon, 04/29/2002 - 18:01

I have a Summit DCL-200 that I like a lot for the 2-mix. The Smart is cool if you like that "radio" sound, I wanted something with less color and I got a good deal on it. The Drawmer 1969 is another good 2-bus comp. If I was only going to own one two-bus comp I'd want something without a strong signiture.

coldsnow Mon, 04/29/2002 - 18:18

There was an article in Elect. Musician were Lord Alge discussed all his compressors and where he used them. I'll look it up, but I know that he said he always used 1176 blue stripes on vox, 1176 black on bass, and Distressors or SSL on drums. I think SSL on 2-bus. He said he has like 4 blue's that he keeps set certain ways so that he doesn't have to reset them with each mix, he just picks the one he like best. Must be nice.
I use a Avalon 2044 on bus and really like the warm sound it gets.

Mad John Thu, 05/02/2002 - 08:08

Renie, Zythum Studios has a Manley MU and it is a majior piece here! The trick is to have it modified w/ thier new Tubes (sorry I forgot the type, but if you call Manley, ask for Paul, that is who did the job on mine)

The improvement on the sonics for one, the tight Bass end is even clearer and not "muddy" at all!

With all the Compressors in my life that I will get, The Manley MU will always be in the altilary and will always be considered a prize piece!

Good luck to you in your hunt for a Compressor and let us know what you decide!

Mad John
Zythum Studios
1st Take Productions

"The present day Composer refusese to die!" - Edgar Varese - 1921

anonymous Fri, 05/03/2002 - 11:20

John

Thanks for your feedback. I knew what you were saying even if some not-so-smarty-pants people didn't :D .

I'm checking out some comp's next week.
First off is the new SPL Kultube followed by a main course of the refined British cuisine of the Chiswick Reach I will probably finish of with the Vari Mu and or the Alan Smart.

I will report back!!

Renie

Eric Bazilian Fri, 05/10/2002 - 21:49

For years every record I was involved in making was mixed through the A&D Compex compressor/limiter. Then one day it came to pass that the Engineer/Mixer Guru of these projects (who hates EVERYTHING he doesn't already know about) got his hands on a pair of Geoff Daking's compressors and that's been it ever since.

The Compex "sound" is a very specific one, indeed....very "English", punchy, and the Daking does this as well as any number of other types of compression, but with a cleaner signal path. I have both and often A/B them, occasionally reverting to the Compex for the odd "Vintage" sound, but, generally, when a clean and open sound is called for, it's the Daking. And, in the scheme of things, they're quite reasonably priced.

Jim Chapdelaine Thu, 05/16/2002 - 17:55

Someone up there nailed it with the Manley Vari Mu.
The new mod is fantastic and makes the unit much more versatile. I used to use it on 'good' mixes
as opposed to 'crunchy, radio' mixes. Now I can use it for any mix. The guy doing the mods is a great guy named Paul Fargo. It allows for a much tighter low end and a transparent top. Or - smash the mix to pieces.

Jim Chapdelaine Sun, 05/19/2002 - 16:40

It's funny that I've become this 'Apogee' guy.
I have endorsements and artist deals with almost every company I like except for Apogee. I just felt Digi boned us good when they tossed out the competition and I said so. I had no idea that it would turn into this emotionally charged sillyness.
Want me to rave more about my Massive Passive or Vipre? I prefer talking about those things because I don't have to research every post. Somone's gotta chase the windmill. Thanks for not pigion holing me Jules. I actually make a living playing guitar and producing, not shilling for a company whose integrity I admire. How you liking those Adams? Makes mixing so much easier. Cheers.

Sir Bob Thu, 05/23/2002 - 20:54

Mix 101 question here; pardon for the turd in the punchbowl but:

I heard that you should make a final mix without hyping much and leave the hyping to the mastering experts.

Is this stereo-bus compression being done in lieu of mastering or what? Does the 2-bus compression piss off the mastering gurus?

Actually I am back the amateur level of synching a port-a-studio with midi keyboards (and I'm ashamed to say, midi drums).

At any rate I mix through my BA Neve 1272 (then through a Rosetta and SV 3800 DAT). The Neve gives the mix a strong quality given my other limitations.

My buddy Larry Williams gives the mix a little mastering tweeking on the computer via Waves and I'm done.

I guess I just have a general question about how 2-bus compression interplays with the mastering process.

drumsound Thu, 05/23/2002 - 22:43

Originally posted by subspace:
Veering slightly off topic, the Smart always struck me as a flavorful mix or drum bus compressor. Anybody like it for tracking certain instruments?
And now back to our regular mix bus programming... listen to a 1969 yet?

I have the 1969 and I think it's a wonderful piece. The big switch makes mixes think, but stable. The attack and release are switches. It's easy to get dialed in and each setting does sound different. It's also a good tracking comp, and has two mic pres and an instrument DI. It totally rocks!

Sir Bob Mon, 05/27/2002 - 08:25

Originally posted by Sir Bob:
...I heard that you should make a final mix without hyping much and leave the hyping to the mastering experts.

Is this stereo-bus compression being done in lieu of mastering or what? Does the 2-bus compression piss off the mastering gurus?...

Let me see if I figured this out.

Stereo-bus compression is for busing a group to a stereo-bus for backgroud vocals or percussion. It is not for the entire final mix?

faganking Mon, 05/27/2002 - 11:42

Whatever happened to the venerable Neve 33609? That was 'thee' shit for years and years. I have two Chandler LTD 2254A's that link and sound incredibly similar to the 33609. I've been using a '1969' for the past year or so, with good results (mostly pretty rockin' stuff). The 'Big' switch and Fletcher's recommended *Fairchild* setting work on almost everything.
Benjy

Tim Farrant Sat, 06/08/2002 - 18:49

RE: Lord Alges ..... i met TLA recently when he was in Melbourne mixing a few tracks for some buddies of mine and boy does he dig compression.

Hey Wiggy,

Do you know Mr McVitty? He told me Tom tried one of our SOC1.1 Optical Compressors whilst in Melbourne and loved it - hoping to get one to him soon. Those interested, check it out below, I use it alot on the 2-bus and works real good with something digital like the L1 to catch the peaks.

http://www.buzz-audio.com/products/soc1.1.htm

Tim

Jim Chapdelaine Sat, 06/08/2002 - 18:58

Again, the Manley Vari Mu (with the new mod!) strapped across the entire mix (pre any outboard eq) adds an undenialble musicality. It's transparent and doesn't (but can) sound like an effect. That said, the Requisite Audio compresser
from Danny McKinny is next on my hit list. It's a different flavor than the Manley and a bit more pricey but it's great to actually 'uncompress an overcompressed track. A fantastic piece. So many great toys........

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