x
Sean G 21 October 2016

dvdhawk, post: 442471, member: 36047 wrote: It looks like they have an interesting new console / control surface coming down the pike soon too.

Here is a preview of the PreSonus StudioLive 32 Series III

I trust what Ray Tantzen has to say...maybe its a beard thing.

On the other hand...the other guy without the beard, Ace Baker...looks a little sus ;)

Comments

audiokid Tue, 10/25/2016 - 13:04

PreSonus = brilliant company.

Circuit Emulated Modeling. Describing plug-ins like this is more realistic. They use pictures but aren't saying its a LA2A. (y)

This new line of mixers (I think) is really all most of us need. Get a record contract, then we take it to the studio, that is, if it is actually that much of a issue.
I wonder if they've improved the converters and pre-amps. Not that I am complaining but that would be what lessens the gap between home and pro methods to capture audio.

Multi-track recording without the need of a external computer. (y)

dvdhawk Dave, are you still a PreSonus dealer?

DonnyThompson Wed, 10/26/2016 - 05:18

Presonus really does seem to be on fire these days... this is just one more product they are offering that is bringing solid, respectable, sonic quality to small to mid-sized production facilities, and at an affordable price; and, considering what you're getting for the cost, it appears to me to be a groundbreaking product - not so much in the foundational technology, because digital hi-res recording and mixing has been around for awhile now - but it's in the way they are incorporating it all together... in the "all-in-one" device; offering hi-fidelity recording, good-sounding emulated processing, along with all the other necessities; like EQ, aux's, cues, etc., with a one button "at a glance" approach - this feature isn't really "new", the Yamaha O2R had this same topology back in '97, but it didn't have the quality converters or pre's that Presonus has become known for having, nor did it have the very cool feature of providing built-in live recording without having to interface to an external DAW or Recording Device.

(I'm also betting that the integration of the SL32 to their S1 DAW is seamless.)

And, to many, I'm confidant that one of the big selling features of this desk - beyond those already mentioned - is actually one of the simplest things... they've brought back the tactile approach to mixing; and with full 32 fader topology, instead of having to assign 2, 4 or 8 faders to full 16, 24 or 32 track mixes.
You can actually put your hands on this thing, tweak knobs, push faders. etc., and that is gonna mean quite a bit to those who miss that tactile side of mixing.

I'm excited about this, and looking forward to hearing more about it - as well as hearing music that's been produced on it. ;)

IMHO of course,
-d.

pcrecord Wed, 10/26/2016 - 07:21

audiokid, post: 442600, member: 1 wrote: Circuit Emulated Modeling. Describing plug-ins like this is more realistic. They use pictures but aren't saying its a LA2A. (y)

It would be a lot better if some emulations, let's say preamp emulations would be done with different electronic circuits !
Like Vox did with the AV60 (just bought one btw) ;)

KurtFoster Wed, 10/26/2016 - 08:28

DonnyThompson, post: 442626, member: 46114 wrote: he Yamaha O2R had this same topology back in '97, but it didn't have the quality converters or pre's that Presonus has become known for having

have you ever used a PreSonus pre Donny? just wonderin' .... :rolleyes:

DonnyThompson, post: 442626, member: 46114 wrote: the very cool feature of providing built-in live recording without having to interface to an external DAW or Recording Device.

this is the one thing i find attractive. it is like the Joe Co. i think we are going to see more and more of this kind of thing. the only feature i am missing is ability to punch in and out on individual tracks of a file. that would be cool! :cool:

DonnyThompson Wed, 10/26/2016 - 08:44

Kurt Foster, post: 442637, member: 7836 wrote: have you ever used a PreSonus pre Donny? just wonderin' .... :rolleyes:

Yes. about half of the LOVE album I produced for Terry Fairfax was tracked through a Presonus 1818VSL, before I got the ADK preamp halfway through the project.

I've always heard them as being on the transparent side, clean, certainly usable, and not the sub-standard quality that others have mentioned hearing.
But, that's just me. I can't validate what others hear.

KurtFoster Wed, 10/26/2016 - 08:48

DonnyThompson, post: 442638, member: 46114 wrote: Yes. about half of the LOVE album I produced for Terry Fairfax was tracked through a Presonus 1818VSL, before I got the ADK preamp halfway through the project.

I've always heard them as being on the transparent side, clean, certainly usable, and not the sub-standard quality that others have mentioned hearing.
But, that's just me. I can't validate what others hear.

(y)

DonnyThompson Wed, 10/26/2016 - 09:21

pcrecord, post: 442640, member: 46460 wrote: I just wish mixers exist with different physical electronic circuit path like the AV60 ;).. Doubt it will come to life but it would be amazing to have...

I'm sure it's doable... but to do that and still keep the cost reasonable is another thing. ;)

I think that's where something like a 500 Series rack would come in handy, to front load the signal any way you wanted to... :)

audiokid Wed, 10/26/2016 - 09:37

Kurt Foster, post: 442637, member: 7836 wrote: have you ever used a PreSonus pre Donny? just wonderin' .... :rolleyes:

Kurt, if I recall, the last time you used a PreSonus pre was at least 10 years back, maybe further correct? They are much better now. I did A/B's between a few well known's and the last SL32 ai and they had improved it a lot. Still not like the big boys but good enough to get Donny, the Ohio's best producer and CD awards http://www.theohiomusicawards.com/

DonnyThompson, post: 442642, member: 46114 wrote: Does anyone know what the top-out SR is on this? Is it 96, or 192, etc... and is the SR/BR track-count dependent?

I know they are at least 96k.

KurtFoster Wed, 10/26/2016 - 09:42

audiokid, post: 442643, member: 1 wrote: Kurt, if I recall, the last time you used a PreSonus pre was at least 10 years back, maybe further correct? They are much better now. I did A/B's between a few well known's and the last SL32 ai and they had improved it a lot. Still not like the big boys but good enough to get Donny, the Ohio's best producer and CD awards http://www.theohiomusicawards.com/

I know they are at least 96k.

i wasn't trying to throw a turd in the punch bowl. i was just wondering if Donny had ever used a Pre Sonus pre amp ( which i am under the impression are the same) and what he thought of them. my own conclusions weren't the point.

audiokid Wed, 10/26/2016 - 10:27

Kurt Foster, post: 442644, member: 7836 wrote: i wasn't trying to throw a turd in the punch bowl. i was just wondering if Donny had ever used a Pre Sonus pre amp ( which i am under the impression are the same) and what he thought of them. my own conclusions weren't the point.

No sweat but you used the roll eye smiley and if I recall many posts by you over the years, you do not like PreSonus preamps. Which is why I asked you when the last time you used one?

I wasn't trying to pin you into a corner or turn this into any drama, I was merely (sharing good news, qualifying and clarifying) my experiences with them as I have owned 2 PreSonus pre-amps and 3 StudioLive consoles in the last decade already.

I'm just sharing hands on, personal experiences and thinking about you because I know you are always looking for ways to get the best for your buck as well. :love:

KurtFoster Wed, 10/26/2016 - 10:49

i think the console has a great features list and is probably priced competitively. that's one of the the things PreSonus does best. and i'll bet it performs as well as other products in that niche. too bad it (and others like it) don't offer a way to patch in quality balanced mic pres and bypass the stock utility grade pres at the front end. it would take the box up a step to the next level imo. that's what the market is missing. balanced line level inputs sans preamps. you know me, i'm a sucker for pres.

edit: i took a second look and i see there are balanced line ins on the inputs on trs 1/4" jacks. i wonder if these are through the pre amp but padded downs or a true bypass of the pres?

dvdhawk Wed, 10/26/2016 - 10:50

The computer-based Capture software, which I use with the rack mount RM mixers as a front-end, can do up to 34 tracks simultaneously of 96k, or up to 64 tracks of 48k simultaneously. I think the biggest limitation in that system is the connection between the computer and RM, limiting data transfer rates of FW800, and the new mixer here is USB3.

The new mixer's internal engine seems to be clocked at 48k, DonnyThompson .

How this will all eventually knit together is still unclear (to me).

audiokid Wed, 10/26/2016 - 11:30

dvdhawk, post: 442650, member: 36047 wrote: Kurt, this new one has 16 line level inputs that bypass the internal pres for just that application.

Exactly. And the last two SL generations could do this too.
The converters, the SR are where it holds us hostage (for a lack of better term). If one could bypass the converters, use our own, this would really shine. But that being said... for $3000, its insanely priced. We already have heard great mixes from this as the only piece of gear in the studio.
If I had this 20 years ago, I would most likely have an ocean front studio in the tropics, one up here in the beautiful coastal mountains lol.
imho.

KurtFoster Wed, 10/26/2016 - 12:12

audiokid, post: 442654, member: 1 wrote: The converters, the SR are where it holds us hostage (for a lack of better term). If one could bypass the converters, use our own, this would really shine.

i wasn't going to say it but that's what i was thinking. maybe the AES will allow digital ins?

edit: i looked and the AES is out only.

dvdhawk Wed, 10/26/2016 - 19:32

That's correct, they will. The SL-AI and the rack mount RM-AI can go up to 96k and both use FW800. The first original version of the StudioLive console used FW400 and I could easily do 24 tracks with it, but that data is traveling in one direction at a time (half-duplex). The AI and RM-AI use FW800, which is twice as fast, but potentially using twice the bandwidth because it's double the sample-rate. FW800 is also full-duplex (data traveling both ways at the same time). I'm just guessing that if this Series III version is going to eventually be integrated into a DAW system as a control surface it would benefit from the speed and full-duplex of USB3. There would have to be data flowing each way simultaneously, but it would probably be asymmetrical. That's my guess anyway.

New SL Series III Console Features:

  • 48 kHz operation with 24-bit resolution (44.1 kHz option coming soon)

SL-AI Console Features:

  • 48 in x 34 out FireWire s800 direct digital recording interface (24-bit/44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz), compatible with Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire converter

RM-AI Rackmount Features:

  • Fully integrated, continuously bidirectional, 52-in/34-out, FireWire 800 direct recording interface (24-bit, 44.1/48/88.2/96 kHz)

A couple of their Studio 192 interfaces will do up to 192kHz, but none of the consoles, or rack mixers, have a Sample-Rate that high yet. I'm sure it's just a matter of time. Consider how much self-contained processing power has to be inside these AI consoles to do the 96k ADDA, with full DSP on every single input and output all the time.

DonnyThompson Thu, 10/27/2016 - 03:41

dvdhawk, post: 442650, member: 36047 wrote: this new one has 16 line level inputs that bypass the internal pres for just that application.

so then you can front load through a hi end pre of your choice and connect it to the line in's, bypassing their pre's and going straight to their converters... that's a cool feature.

Kurt Foster, post: 442655, member: 7836 wrote: maybe the AES will allow digital ins?

DonnyThompson, post: 442642, member: 46114 wrote: s it 96, or 192, etc

pcrecord, post: 442631, member: 46460 wrote: It would be a lot better if some emulations, let's say preamp emulations would be done with different electronic circuits !

audiokid, post: 442656, member: 1 wrote: Would it ever be cool if outboard converters could replace the onboard, to improve the entire internal DSP.

I know we all have our wish list of things we'd like to see, guys... from ultra high SR's, to different circuitry options, to replacing or working around their built-in converters... but, with every feature added, it becomes more expensive, and Presonus is trying to keep this thing priced at a very affordable point, to where small and mid level project studios can improve their workflow with a minimal investment.

Sure, we could probably all weigh in on designing an engineer's "dream" digital console; adding things that we think would be great, to take it to the "next level"... like Neve pre's, and Antelope converters, SS/FET/Tube circuitry, with a 384k SR and 64 BR, with AES/EBU i-o, and FW, USB, TB connections... ( and tail fins, and chrome trim, and a cup holder, and a built in ashtray and doobie roller, beer tap and coffee maker LOL....) but at some point the desk is then gonna start costing in the neighborhood of 40, maybe even 50 grand, as opposed to the 3 G's it's priced at now. ;)

IMO.
-d.

kmetal Thu, 10/27/2016 - 11:28

audiokid, post: 442656, member: 1 wrote: (y)

Would it ever be cool if outboard converters could replace the onboard, to improve the entire internal DSP.
Boswell

Is this possible Bos?

I know you tagged boz but figured I'd offer my unsolicited opinion. Lol

I think that comverters are just too much $ and seemingly will be for the foreseeable future. From what (little) I understand of comverters it's the R and D that takes so much effort and time and hence money. The Burl mothership was 10years or so in development. W the first incarnation being the UA 192 then the bomber, all being designed by the same dude in whole or part.

Since a good converter basically sinks or swims by the quality of its analog section, I really wonder how much improvement we would hear pairing top adda w something like the SL analog section.

That said I have run the stereo outs of the original SL thru a Yamaha LSR ch1/2 and into the house system it it's the best I ever heard the band sound. There was an instant clarity or lift of the fog.

Whether that's the Yamaha or the system as a whole who knows. Beyond that it was still going thru the SL conversion and master bus into the lsr, so it was technically 2 conversions, which by rights should have sounded worse.

I think it was just a better system that made the diff.

Sean G Thu, 10/27/2016 - 14:02

Kurt Foster, post: 442648, member: 7836 wrote: too bad it (and others like it) don't offer a way to patch in quality balanced mic pres and bypass the stock utility grade pres at the front end. it would take the box up a step to the next level imo.

I was thinking that the area on the top left corner of the StudioLive 32 (which looks to me like a place to put your ipad) would be an ideal place for a 500 series rack...too bad its probably crammed with circuit boards under there.

Now that option would be good...a digital mixer with a 500 series rack where you could drop in your analog pres, EQ's and comps of choice. ;)

Boswell Fri, 10/28/2016 - 04:16

audiokid, post: 442656, member: 1 wrote: (y)

Would it ever be cool if outboard converters could replace the onboard, to improve the entire internal DSP.
Boswell

Is this possible Bos?

Yes, it's entirely possible with the right digital console architecture - my old Yamaha O series console was an excellent mixer if you used external converters fed in via ADAT. However, the use of external conversion is completely separate from the mixer's internal DSP operations. All digital mixers use DSP internally in one form or another to perform such things as summing, EQ and dynamics. These work on digital samples, and the DSP engine has no knowledge of how its input samples arrived.

To "improve" the internal DSP processing on a given mixer, you need a firmware upgrade from the manufacturer. The alternative is to trade the mixer in for one you prefer the sound of.

x

User login