If using Cubase look at [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.steinber…"]Start : MR816 Advanced Integration DSP Studio | http://www.steinber…]="http://www.steinber…"]Start : MR816 Advanced Integration DSP Studio | http://www.steinber…] for your sound card. I have used two of these units in my studio for a couple of years now and I am really pleased. The pre-amps sound great and they are easy and fast to work with.
Here is a link to my studio, all the examples of band recordings are with these units. [="http://montesaaudio…
H"]Intro - Montesa Recording studio[/]ope this helps.

Here is a link to my studio, all the examples of band recordings are with these units. [="http://montesaaudio.com/%3Cbr%20/%3EH"]Intro - Montesa Recording studio[/]="http://montesaaudio…"]Intro - Montesa Recording studio[/]ope this helps.

Sorry bad link. Ill try again. [[url=http://="http://montesaaudio…"]Intro - Montesa Recording studio[/]="http://montesaaudio…"]Intro - Montesa Recording studio[/]

This post has a lot of contradictions in it. A lot of people assume you can get a high end facility for under 5k but really what you can get is a good start. If you are looking for truly professional results right away. The smart thing to do(IMO) is to get your self set up as a great tracking studio for yourself and then use a pro engineer to mix your stuff. This is where knowledge will out strip gear. For example a really good engineer will be able to pull awesome tracks out of the gear your looking at buying but I don't imagine that too many of them would choose what is on your list. I am not meaning to be a downer. A lot of people just getting into this make similar assumptions.

Building your front end(no matter what you are doing) is really important.

I'd look at:

RME fireface is good
Yamaha hs80's are okay (monitors are a big deal and something you learn over time)
Vocal mic EV re-20
guitar mic sm-81
API 512c mic pre with an API lunch box

This is one good possible front end based on my personal tastes. There are many other good ones. The "star" here is the re-20 vocal mic. It can compete against the best at a fraction of the price.

What has been done room treatment wise?

Echo what Paul999 says.

You are talking about a project studio level, not high end. But I'm sure you are capable of that but unaware of the difference. Take a breath and some solid advise.
High End is a whole other bracket, obviously in the eyes of the beholder. To save you a lot of mystery, start discovering what high end means in Pro Audio now, not 2 years later when you told people you are a mastering engineer too. It will be humbling and very education. Right now you have dilutions of grandeur, common for people migrating from digital to acoustic music. Once you put acoustic into the mix everything changes. Get that straight to avoid fooling yourself and others in your circle.

High End in your title gave a whole other meaning to pro audio. I've moved this to the Home Recording Forum.

Montesa Audio, post: 383405 wrote: If using Cubase look at [="http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/audio_interfaces/mr_series.html"]Start*:*MR816 Advanced Integration DSP Studio*|*http://www.steinberg.net/[/]="http://www.steinber…"]Start*:*MR816 Advanced Integration DSP Studio*|*http://www.steinber…] for your sound card. I have used two of these units in my studio for a couple of years now and I am really pleased. The pre-amps sound great and they are easy and fast to work with.
Here is a link to my studio, all the examples of band recordings are with these units. [URL=http://montesaaudio…
H]Intro - Montesa Recording studioope this helps.

thanks for the links dude , i thought this is a high end interface too :)

but the link to ur studio is broken and i would really appreciate it if i can have a look at it , im pretty sure ill learn alot :) could you send me a working link plz thnx

yep the other 1 worked :)

Paul999, post: 383407 wrote: This post has a lot of contradictions in it. A lot of people assume you can get a high end facility for under 5k but really what you can get is a good start. If you are looking for truly professional results right away. The smart thing to do(IMO) is to get your self set up as a great tracking studio for yourself and then use a pro engineer to mix your stuff. This is where knowledge will out strip gear. For example a really good engineer will be able to pull awesome tracks out of the gear your looking at buying but I don't imagine that too many of them would choose what is on your list. I am not meaning to be a downer. A lot of people just getting into this make similar assumptions.

Building your front end(no matter what you are doing) is really important.

I'd look at:

RME fireface is good
Yamaha hs80's are okay (monitors are a big deal and something you learn over time)
Vocal mic EV re-20
guitar mic sm-81
API 512c mic pre with an API lunch box

This is one good possible front end based on my personal tastes. There are many other good ones. The "star" here is the re-20 vocal mic. It can compete against the best at a fraction of the price.

What has been done room treatment wise?

thanks for the reply mate , although i am down abit haha jks nah its just i really thought this gear was enough, but anyway thanks for your recommendations

as for the room treatment , i got 24 auralex panels , 4 bass trapes , isolation matts and a couple of furniture to work as diffusers (as much as it can)

so do you think the rme ff400 would deliver a professional quality and is good for midi ?

and as for the yamaha hs80m , i know there r better out there , how about the dyn-audio bm5k or the adam a7x? would they be considered as a high end ? :D

great vocal and guitar mics !!but i think the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.electrov…"]EV[/]="http://www.electrov…"]EV[/] re-20 mic is stated as a broadcast mic ?? so apparently u find all my mic choices r crap true? and do u think the ff400 pres wont be enough? and can i record the guitar straight of the ff400 or wouldnt it sound good?

another question ... is there something wrong with recording on PC , cuz apparently every high end studio uses MAC :(

audiokid, post: 383416 wrote: Echo what Paul999 says.

You are talking about a project studio level, not high end. But I'm sure you are capable of that but unaware of the difference. Take a breath and some solid advise.
High End is a whole other bracket, obviously in the eyes of the beholder. To save you a lot of mystery, start discovering what high end means in Pro Audio now, not 2 years later when you told people you are a mastering engineer too. It will be humbling and very education. Right now you have dilutions of grandeur, common for people migrating from digital to acoustic music. Once you put acoustic into the mix everything changes. Get that straight to avoid fooling yourself and others in your circle.

High End in your title gave a whole other meaning to pro audio.

ok to be honest i didnt get anything from your comment with all due respect :D but it sounds like too much of criticism to me , i know im such a newbie haha

would help if u can explain it more in detail please with recommendation for the gear :)

The FF400 is dated and not "pro level" but works fine for home studios and modest tracking. The sound quality of the converters are okay and the preamps are low end. There is much better.

Mac vs Win7 , one being more pro than the other. You can't buy a cheap mac but you can buy a cheap PC made of shit parts. But you can also buy a PC made of steller parts that will eat a mac up. Choose your DAW and then choose your OS. Get the fact right.

fito_88, post: 383421 wrote: ok to be honest i didnt get anything from your comment with all due respect :D but it sounds like too much of criticism to me , i know im such a newbie haha

would help if u can explain it more in detail please with recommendation for the gear :)

No problem.

You posted in the Pro Audio Forums and used the word High End. How much money do you want to spend and what are your expectations?

audiokid, post: 383424 wrote: No problem.

You posted in the Pro Audio Forums and used the word High End. How much money do you want to spend and what are your expectations?

great , im willing to spend 4.5 k and hopefully get a commercially competitive products at the end using what i stated above , mainly midi recording , a single guitar instrument and a male vocal

audiokid, post: 383423 wrote: The FF400 is dated and not "pro level" but works fine for home studios and modest tracking. The sound quality of the converters are okay and the preamps are low end. There is much better.

Mac vs Win7 , one being more pro than the other. You can't buy a cheap mac but you can buy a cheap PC made of shit parts. But you can also buy a PC made of steller parts that will eat a mac up. Choose your DAW and then choose your OS. Get the fact right.

yeh i have a killer pc all up to date with 16gb of ram and win 7 64bit

and what is a better interface than the ff400 though ? cant think of any

How many channels are you needing to do at one time?

audiokid, post: 383427 wrote: How many channels are you needing to do at one time?

2 at most :)

and you need preamps too, correct?

audiokid, post: 383429 wrote: and you need preamps too, correct?

apparently since the built-ins in rme ff400 are not good enough then id say yea

Okay, we are still wanting high quality acoustic music correct, so we stay on the high quality path and move on while taking notes. Since you only need 2 tracks at a time, you can improve your sound level within your budget. Stay focused.

Good preamps and a good converter are a huge part of sound. You need to understand more about preamps now. Have you looked into the cost of preamps and why people choose particular ones?
The fireface400 is a nice converter/interface for beginners or project studios but lacks in the preamp department. They will get you by for a project studio but they are not high end. They will not produce high quality sound. Follow.
If you invest in a good mic, the preamps must be as equal quality or you will be wasting your money and blaming other things when you start hearing things that don't sound right. Follow?

You need to understand the fundamentals of each piece more. I'm trying to help you learn here. Are you open to this?

audiokid, post: 383434 wrote: Okay, we are still wanting high quality acoustic music correct, so we stay on the high quality path and move on while taking notes. Since you only need 2 tracks at a time, you can improve your sound level within your budget. Stay focused.

Good preamps and a good converter are a huge part of sound. You need to understand more about preamps now. Have you looked into the cost of preamps and why people choose particular ones?
The fireface400 is a nice converter/interface for beginners or project studios but lacks in the preamp department. They will get you by for a project studio but they are not high end. They will not produce high quality sound. Follow.
If you invest in a good mic, the preamps must be as equal quality or you will be wasting your money and blaming other things when you start hearing things that don't sound right. Follow?

You need to understand the fundamentals of each piece more. I'm trying to help you learn here. Are you open to this?

yes believe me i understand all these things thats why i know i have to pay big bucks in order to get quality , and my lowest link would be my cheapest part in the chain , but the thing is im not exposed to professional studios so i dont know what kinda gear would help me achieve that , thats why i need gear recommendation !

lets start by midi , if im only going to compose/arrange music myself with a controller and DAW and plugins , would the ff400 be enough or would it be an overkill and just any normal interface would do the job?

what are good montiors for reference

if we jump to vocal recording its a different story i know , cuz then id need a high quality mic,preamps and converters , i just need recommendationsssss

fito_88, post: 383435 wrote: yes believe me i understand all these things thats why i know i have to pay big bucks in order to get quality , and my lowest link would be my cheapest part in the chain , but the thing is im not exposed to professional studios so i dont know what kinda gear would help me achieve that , thats why i need gear recommendation !

lets start by midi , if im only going to compose/arrange music myself with a controller and DAW and plugins , would the ff400 be enough or would it be an overkill and just any normal interface would do the job?

what are good montiors for reference

if we jump to vocal recording its a different story i know , cuz then id need a high quality mic,preamps and converters , i just need recommendationsssss

If you aren't going to expect pristine sound, and only needing a few tracks at a time, but need something that will interface midi well, I would look at something with better converters, better preamps and lower latency. Try the Fireface UCX or seriously look at the new UA Apollo. Its more than you need now BUT! will be helpful when you are using plug-ins and wanting to expand. It covers it all very well.

Cheers!

audiokid, post: 383436 wrote: If you aren't going to expect pristine sound, only needing a few track at a time, but need something that will interface midi well, I would look at something with better converters, better preamps and lower latency. Try the Fireface UCX or seriously look at the new UA Apollo. Its more than you need now BUT! will be helpful when you are using plug-ins and wanting to expand. It covers it all very well.

Cheers!

thanks ill look for it

fito_88, post: 383435 wrote: yes believe me i understand all these things thats why i know i have to pay big bucks in order to get quality , and my lowest link would be my cheapest part in the chain , but the thing is im not exposed to professional studios so i dont know what kinda gear would help me achieve that , thats why i need gear recommendation !

lets start by midi , if im only going to compose/arrange music myself with a controller and DAW and plugins , would the ff400 be enough or would it be an overkill and just any normal interface would do the job?

what are good montiors for reference

if we jump to vocal recording its a different story i know , cuz then id need a high quality mic,preamps and converters , i just need recommendationsssss

Using MIDI doesn't require any sort of preamp.
You want MIDI recording software for your PC like Cubase or Sonar to start.
The A/D/A interface and preamps are for audio recording and playback to monitors.
What equipment besides the computer do you have currently? Keyboards?, guitars. mics?
If you want to compose MIDI tracks with some added guitar parts and a vocal, I would get an interface with a good DI instrument input for your guitar, MIDI controller built in and a couple decent microphone preamps.
RME is a great company and has those on many of there units.
If you're thinking microphones for acoustic guitar and vocals, then get an interface with a couple good preamps built in. You can always buy a separate outboard preamp later if you think you need it.
Studio microphones can run you anywhere from $100-$10,000.
You need an acoustically treated room and good monitors and that could easily use up half your budget for those items alone. Good monitors easily cost $1000 each and room treatment could eat up the other half of your $4.5k. That right there would be considered mid priced budget for a home project recording setup.
Most people building a "high-end" studio would spend your $4.5k on the monitor's.

So....$500 for DAW software
$1500 for a decent interface
$1000 for marginal room treatment
$1500 for decent monitors.
That's $4500 right there...No mics, no preamps....
Just the basics...you supply the instruments and talent. Everything mixed ITB....and you have a composition!
I'm sure you have access to online music stores like Sweetwater (US) or places like that in Austraiia.
Start selecting the basic bits and pieces you need from their online catalogs within your budget and see what your budget get's you. You'll have to adjust "high-end" quality for price in order to get everything you need.

djmukilteo, post: 383438 wrote: Using MIDI doesn't require any sort of preamp.
You want MIDI recording software for your PC like Cubase or Sonar to start.
The A/D/A interface and preamps are for audio recording and playback to monitors.
What equipment besides the computer do you have currently? Keyboards?, guitars. mics?
If you want to compose MIDI tracks with some added guitar parts and a vocal, I would get an interface with a good DI instrument input for your guitar, MIDI controller built in and a couple decent microphone preamps.
RME is a great company and has those on many of there units.
If you're thinking microphones for acoustic guitar and vocals, then get an interface with a couple good preamps built in. You can always buy a separate outboard preamp later if you think you need it.
Studio microphones can run you anywhere from $100-$10,000.
You need an acoustically treated room and good monitors and that could easily use up half your budget for those items alone. Good monitors easily cost $1000 each and room treatment could eat up the other half of your $4.5k. That right there would be considered mid priced budget for a home project recording setup.
Most people building a "high-end" studio would spend your $4.5k on the monitor's.

So....$500 for DAW software
$1500 for a decent interface
$1000 for marginal room treatment
$1500 for decent monitors.
That's $4500 right there...No mics, no preamps....
Just the basics...you supply the instruments and talent. Everything mixed ITB....and you have a composition!
I'm sure you have access to online music stores like Sweetwater (US) or places like that in Austraiia.
Start selecting the basic bits and pieces you need from their online catalogs within your budget and see what your budget get's you. You'll have to adjust "high-end" quality for price in order to get everything you need.

thats a quality comment !! thanks for that !

as i stated above im using cubase and ableton , lets say i need this
""If you want to compose MIDI tracks with some added guitar parts and a vocal, I would get an interface with a good DI instrument input for your guitar, MIDI controller built in and a couple decent microphone preamps.
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.rme-audi…"]RME[/]="http://www.rme-audi…"]RME[/] is a great company and has those on many of there units."""

which rme unit would suite me best in that case , UFX/ff400/babyface/HDSP ? and whats the difference between the UFX and the rest in terms of quality not I/O cuz i wont need more than 2 inputs

i wouldnt worry about the microphone now then since ill start with composing which is actually my field

what are decent monitors for a small treated room ? iv auditioned many in that 1.5k range and i liked the ADAM a7x and the dyn-audio bm5 mkii and genelec .. which 1 of these is the most flat professional 1 or do u have another recommendation?

lastly , whats that DI that u stated for guitar recording? cheers

fito_88, post: 383442 wrote: thats a quality comment !! thanks for that !

as i stated above im using cubase and ableton , lets say i need this
""If you want to compose MIDI tracks with some added guitar parts and a vocal, I would get an interface with a good DI instrument input for your guitar, MIDI controller built in and a couple decent microphone preamps.
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.rme-audi…"]RME[/]="http://www.rme-audi…"]RME[/] is a great company and has those on many of there units."""

which rme unit would suite me best in that case , UFX/ff400/babyface/HDSP ? and whats the difference between the UFX and the rest in terms of quality not I/O cuz i wont need more than 2 inputs

i wouldnt worry about the microphone now then since ill start with composing which is actually my field

what are decent monitors for a small treated room ? iv auditioned many in that 1.5k range and i liked the ADAM a7x and the dyn-audio bm5 mkii and genelec .. which 1 of these is the most flat professional 1 or do u have another recommendation?

lastly , whats that DI that u stated for guitar recording? cheers

I would say the UFX is the best out of the group...it will give you more inputs and has built in DSP effects.
It also has a DI (direct input) guitar instrument input and MIDI for your (keyboard?) You didn't state what your using for the MIDI instrument.
Any of those monitors you listed are professional and you should pick the pair that has the best specs and the ones that sound the best to you. Focal is another good monitor to look at.
If you don't listen to them with music or reference material you know sounds good to you and use them in an acoustically treated room they will all sound strange and lie to you. They can only do the job in a room that is as flat and responsive as the speaker.
The room where you monitor is the critical factor. Without it they are just another set of speakers in a room.
And just so you know......nobody is going to tell you exactly what to buy.....you'll end up being unhappy with taking someone elses advice!
Take some time and go online....read all the equipment reviews you can find, do a little research and find lots of opinions. Educate yourself on the technical specs so you understand what's going on. Weigh your tastes and things you like and want with what has the most reliable, solid reviews that fits your budget...make a list and narrow your choices down....pros and cons....because at the end of the day your the only person spending the money and your the only one who will use the stuff and only you has to be happy with your decisions.
Hope that helps!

If you are spending that amount on a UFX, I would look at the new Apollo. It comes with this, two headphone outs, excellent preamps and converters and the uad plugins which will free up cpu and help you produce ITB music. They are very close in price, The Apollo is the new "benchmark" in this PRICE category.

If this doesn't gel with you, do the babyface and coke and have fun.

djmukilteo, post: 383443 wrote: I would say the UFX is the best out of the group...it will give you more inputs and has built in DSP effects.
It also has a DI (direct input) guitar instrument input and MIDI for your (keyboard?) You didn't state what your using for the MIDI instrument.
Any of those monitors you listed are professional and you should pick the pair that has the best specs and the ones that sound the best to you. Focal is another good monitor to look at.
If you don't listen to them with music or reference material you know sounds good to you and use them in an acoustically treated room they will all sound strange and lie to you. They can only do the job in a room that is as flat and responsive as the speaker.
The room where you monitor is the critical factor. Without it they are just another set of speakers in a room.
And just so you know......nobody is going to tell you exactly what to buy.....you'll end up being unhappy with taking someone elses advice!
Take some time and go online....read all the equipment reviews you can find, do a little research and find lots of opinions. Educate yourself on the technical specs so you understand what's going on. Weigh your tastes and things you like and want with what has the most reliable, solid reviews that fits your budget...make a list and narrow your choices down....pros and cons....because at the end of the day your the only person spending the money and your the only one who will use the stuff and only you has to be happy with your decisions.
Hope that helps!

thanks foe ur comment , i actually do a lot of homework and reading , actually iv been doing this for 6 months now , but i just needed to gather that top gear that r commercially used in professional studios as much as i can from u guys , so that i can put them in a list and tell myself alight .. thats what produces that great commercial material in the market , and then i would do my homework on each of these gears to decide which 1 suits me the best cuz at the end im the fool whos paying at the end lol i just needed to knw what are the high-end gear cuz im not exposed to professional studios so i didnt know which gear i should look at !

my midi instruments would be the m-audio keystation 88es and the novation 61 sl mkii sry if i forgot to mention these before :) would i need these better DSP in the UFX in my midi composition or is it just for audio? and would there be a improvment with my compositions with the UFX than the ff400 or its just better pres and dsp and more i/o ?

audiokid, post: 383446 wrote: If you are spending that amount on a UFX, I would look at the new Apollo. It comes with this, two headphone outs, excellent preamps and converters and the uad plugins which will free us cpu and help you produce itb music. They are very close in price, The Apollo is the new benchmark in this category.

If this doesn't gel with you, do the babyface and coke and have fun.

interesting ....... the UA apollo sounds like a decent choice ....would it be better than the ff400?

Everything that djmukilteo says I echo.

Are you using MIDI via MIDI connectors or USB?

audiokid, post: 383452 wrote: Everything that djmukilteo says I echo.

Are you using MIDI via MIDI connectors or USB?

both , 1 with usb 1 (which is the 1 im mostly worried about) , other via midi

fito_88, post: 383448 wrote: thanks foe ur comment , i actually do a lot of homework and reading , actually iv been doing this for 6 months now , but i just needed to gather that top gear that r commercially used in professional studios as much as i can from u guys , so that i can put them in a list and tell myself alight .. thats what produces that great commercial material in the market , and then i would do my homework on each of these gears to decide which 1 suits me the best cuz at the end im the fool whos paying at the end lol i just needed to knw what are the high-end gear cuz im not exposed to professional studios so i didnt know which gear i should look at !

my midi instruments would be the m-audio keystation 88es and the novation 61 sl mkii sry if i forgot to mention these before :) would i need these better DSP in the UFX in my midi composition or is it just for audio? and would there be a improvment with my compositions with the UFX than the ff400 or its just better pres and dsp and more i/o ?

Well just to be bluntly honest and realistic....with your budget of $4500 your not getting professional recording studio equipment. That would be more in the $100,000+ realm and that is a business....who are making commercial recordings for record labels, television or film.
Most mixing consoles in a professional recording studio are worth 100's of thousands of dollars alone and the same in the cost of a building and control room and then filled with instruments and outboard gear worth the same amounts again.
You're in the low/mid budget minded recording hobby realm where you have a lot of digital interfaces with suitable preamps, conversion for your personal computer to get a sound quality that will get you a pretty decent noise free recording.....just so you know and aren't being naive about this. And I'm not trying to discourage you in any way from doing what you want to do.

Everybody wants to record themselves and thinks they are talented and they all want to sit down and compose music and think they will be the next "Idol". Technology and electronics today has allowed companies to create products like what your looking at for that particular niche market. You can spend $500 or $5000. You spend an amount of money you can afford to achieve some sort of relative audio recording result. That equipment is geared toward the consumer, just like buying a car, game console, keyboard guitar or laptop computer. It's just another piece of electronics technology that you can buy, play with and own.....every music store now has this stuff right there to buy along with your keyboard or guitar....
Professionals recording studios make an investment in equipment based on a business plan in order to make money off other people and make a living doing that.
Years ago, professional musicians who made a living playing music would spend tens of thousands of dollars on "semi-professional" home recording setups in order to make reasonably good demo recordings on their own in order to try and get that recording played to a record company so maybe they would get a record deal. (fingers crossed, lottery winner).
Today....that's kind of where you come in.....disposable income, interested in recording, plays an instrument, maybe even plays gigs at the local tavern....wants to have a semi-professional studio to do that.....it just doesn't cost tens of thousands now.....a far cry from a commercial release or a professional commercial enterprise or record deal.
There are millions of talented people in the world with contracts, money and influence that are doing that...and millions more who think they can do that....again it's a crap shoot and lottery winner!
It's not about the price of the gear, that is all relative. Your really just a consumer right now....
You want to paint art, you buy some brushes and canvas, get some good tools and paint.....enjoy it for what it is, a hobby...have fun with it. Don't fool yourself and think spending $5000 will get you a record deal.....
If your thinking that way, save that money and spend it on school or lessons or better instruments, get out and play professionaly and get exposure to a fan base who will consume your music.

You need to be focused on MIDI because this is your main way of communicating then. The Apollo is USB 2, FW and Thunderbolt ready. USB 1 sucks and USB 2 isn't much better IMO but many seem to be able to get by on USB controllers. I am an old midi programmer and love the old interface. I use the Mark Of The Unicorn MTP AV that interfaces with my RME converters which connect to my RME PCIe interface. I can have 8 master controllers in any configuration. Its fast and flawless.
You are using Ableton and Cubase which are excellent DAWS. Ableton is fast. [="http://recording.org/members/35891.html"]djmukilteo[/]="http://recording.or…"]djmukilteo[/] uses Cubase, he is very proficiant with it and everything I am telling you too.

You are asking what will produce better music? In your case no interface will help you because you are already ITB (in the box). You need to learn more about converters and interfaces. This is what is confusing you some. Interfaces and converters are for converting real world sound (analog) into the computer (ITB). Something you aren't really about. It sounds like you need great software and a fast interface for midi more than anything. I moved away from Firewire and bought a PCIe interface with midi. Its FAST. But this is yet another way but it comes at a price.

I am planning to buy a [[url=http://="http://www.akaiprom…"]Introducing the next generation of Akai Pro MPC - The Akai MPC Renaissance[/]="http://www.akaiprom…"]Introducing the next generation of Akai Pro MPC - The Akai MPC Renaissance[/]. Why? Because I am a programming insane musician and this is one of the best systems for this. You may want to look into other types are systems too. Or the Korg Kronos. Which I'm considering too. You can sing and play guitar into those and load them into Cubase for more detailed composing.

Either way, you are going to need USB 2 so add that one into the equation.

djmukilteo, post: 383454 wrote: Well just to be bluntly honest and realistic....with your budget of $4500 your not getting professional recording studio equipment. That would be more in the $100,000+ realm and that is a business....who are making commercial recordings for record labels, television or film.
Most mixing consoles in a professional recording studio are worth 100's of thousands of dollars alone and the same in the cost of a building and control room and then filled with instruments and outboard gear worth the same amounts again.
You're in the low/mid budget minded recording hobby realm where you have a lot of digital interfaces with suitable preamps, conversion for your personal computer to get a sound quality that will get you a pretty decent noise free recording.....just so you know and aren't being naive about this. And I'm not trying to discourage you in any way from doing what you want to do.

Everybody wants to record themselves and thinks they are talented and they all want to sit down and compose music and think they will be the next "Idol". Technology and electronics today has allowed companies to create products like what your looking at for that particular niche market. You can spend $500 or $5000. You spend an amount of money you can afford to achieve some sort of relative audio recording result. That equipment is geared toward the consumer, just like buying a car, game console, keyboard guitar or laptop computer. It's just another piece of electronics technology that you can buy, play with and own.....every music store now has this stuff right there to buy along with your keyboard or guitar....
Professionals recording studios make an investment in equipment based on a business plan in order to make money off other people and make a living doing that.
Years ago, professional musicians who made a living playing music would spend tens of thousands of dollars on "semi-professional" home recording setups in order to make reasonably good demo recordings on their own in order to try and get that recording played to a record company so maybe they would get a record deal. (fingers crossed, lottery winner).
Today....that's kind of where you come in.....disposable income, interested in recording, plays an instrument, maybe even plays gigs at the local tavern....wants to have a semi-professional studio to do that.....it just doesn't cost tens of thousands now.....a far cry from a commercial release or a professional commercial enterprise or record deal.
There are millions of talented people in the world with contracts, money and influence that are doing that...and millions more who think they can do that....again it's a crap shoot and lottery winner!
It's not about the price of the gear, that is all relative. Your really just a consumer right now....
You want to paint art, you buy some brushes and canvas, get some good tools and paint.....enjoy it for what it is, a hobby...have fun with it. Don't fool yourself and think spending $5000 will get you a record deal.....
If your thinking that way, save that money and spend it on school or lessons or better instruments, get out and play professionaly and get exposure to a fan base who will consume your music.

may be one day ill be able to make good music that ppl would consume .. i stick to that hope pardon me ..

i just want the gear that will help me achieve a decent professional demo , a better gear than my old saffira 6usb , is that too much to ask for ?

djmukilteo, post: 383454 wrote: Well just to be bluntly honest and realistic....with your budget of $4500 your not getting professional recording studio equipment. That would be more in the $100,000+ realm and that is a business....who are making commercial recordings for record labels, television or film.

Good timing and well said. That's why I was trying to educate him in the first place ( help him to learn for himself). Ask him a question so he ask one back rather than "tell me what I need". He hasn't a clue about the depths of recording but knows enough to be dangerous. The OP missed my direction and intention as somewhat rude. Understandable but predictable. Many people entering this business think its a lot easier. They also think 5 grand is a good amount. They also think pro audio and high end is under 5 grand. My converters and interface cost me $7000 and it is not what I would call high end. They are mid level. Plus I needed another 2 grand for cable.

Keep asking, you get it sooner or later. In the mean time, what ever you do, please don't think you are going to be a mastering engineer in 12 months from now. It takes years and costs a hundred grand just to get started.

Now than you are beginning to understand the differences between high end and project studios, you are a project studio and need to focus on a powerful CP that will handle ITB music. Worry about that now and later on start to look at acoustic interfaces for a guitar or vocal down the road. You walked into the pro audio arena with the attitude that you knew what it was. We simply schooled you and I believe have helped you get back on track here.

make sense?

audiokid, post: 383455 wrote: You need to be focused on MIDI because this is your main way of communicating then. The Apollo is USB 2, FW and Thunderbolt ready. USB 1 sucks and USB 2 isn't much better IMO but many seem to be able to get by on USB controllers. I am an old midi programmer and love the old interface. I use the Mark Of The Unicorn MTP AV that interfaces with my RME converters which connect to my RME PCIe interface. I can have 8 master controllers in any configuration. Its fast and flawless.
You are using Ableton and Cubase which are excellent DAWS. Ableton is fast. [="http://recording.org/members/35891.html"]djmukilteo[/]="http://recording.or…"]djmukilteo[/] uses Cubase, he is very proficiant with it and everything I am telling you too.

You are asking what will produce better music? In your case no interface will help you because you are already ITB (in the box). You need to learn more about converters and interfaces. This is what is confusing you some. Interfaces and converters are for converting real world sound (analog) into the computer (ITB). Something you aren't really about. It sounds like you need great software and a fast interface for midi more than anything. I moved away from Firewire and bought a PCIe interface with midi. Its FAST. But this is yet another way but it comes at a price.

I am planning to buy a [[url=http://="http://www.akaiprom…"]Introducing the next generation of Akai Pro MPC - The Akai MPC Renaissance[/]="http://www.akaiprom…"]Introducing the next generation of Akai Pro MPC - The Akai MPC Renaissance[/]. Why? Because I am a programming insane musician and this is one of the best systems for this. You may want to look into other types are systems too. Or the Korg Kronos. Which I'm considering too. You can sing and play guitar into those and load them into Cubase for more detailed composing.

Either way, you are going to need USB 2 so add that one into the equation.

this is the most helpful post so so far ... thanks man for understanding what i need

so do u think a PCI interface would be better for midi? like rme hdsp would be better "for my case" than the ff400?

cubase is my first choice the ableton , not for anything but cuz im used to cubase more even though its layouts and looks r not catchy, i need to buy great high quality plugins too like east west hollywood strings which r a grand them selves , so thats another thing im worring about

thanks for clearing this out to me , i was confused about the use of converters and pres until u told that 98% of my work will be ITB

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.korg.com/"]Korg[/]="http://www.korg.com/"]Korg[/] Kronos is just adorable , pure quality , but i wouldnt wana go for something that has built-in sounds when all im using is plugins .

so at the end , would u reckon the UA apollo would be an overkill for me after u knew that im an ITB guy?

audiokid, post: 383459 wrote: Now than you are beginning to understand the differences between high end and project studios, you are a project studio and need to focus on a powerful CP that will handle ITB music. Worry about that now and later on start to look at acoustic interfaces for a guitar or vocal done the road. You walked into the pro audio arena with the attitude that you knew what it was. We simply schooled you and I believe have helped you get back on track here.

make sense?

it does , but dont call me rude for not understanding what u meant at the beginning , its u who who was not clear to me.

second of all what a CP?

third of all , sry if i insulted the pro-audio arena by me trying to enter it !!!!

No, you thought I was rude to you.

audiokid, post: 383462 wrote: No, you thought I was rude to you.

no way my friend !!! im actually so thankfull and appreciated alot for the time your taking to answer me and try to educate me !! this really means alot ! sry if u ever thought that .

fito_88, post: 383461 wrote: it does , but dont call me rude for not understanding what u meant at the beginning , its u who who was not clear to me.

second of all what a CP?

third of all , sry if i insulted the pro-audio arena by me trying to enter it !!!!

No, you did not insult the Pro Audio arena. You are misleading in your title and perception of high end and what you can do with $5000 in the big picture. Its what we have all been trying to tell you. There are a lot of contradiction in your posts. Pro Audio is a different world than where you are right now. Its not that you aren't talented and may some day be a world class musician, programmer, songwriter engineer etc, We're here to help you achieve this but we cannot patronize you or allow posts to be full of misleading information.

Follow?

sry for posting this twice

audiokid, post: 383464 wrote: No, you did not insult the Pro Audio arena. You are misleading in your title and perception of high end and what you can do with $5000 in the big picture. Its what we have all been trying to tell you. There are a lot of contradiction in your posts. Pro Audio is a different world than where you are right now. Its not that you aren't talented and may some day be a world class musician, programmer, songwriter engineer etc, We're here to help you achieve this but we cannot patronize you or allow posts to be full of misleading information.

Follow?

Understood boss :)
so which 1 is faster and more reliable for midi , PCI or ff400?

fito_88, post: 383460 wrote: this is the most helpful post so so far ... thanks man for understanding what i need

so do u think a PCI interface would be better for midi? like rme hdsp would be better "for my case" than the ff400?

cubase is my first choice the ableton , not for anything but cuz im used to cubase more even though its layouts and looks r not catchy, i need to buy great high quality plugins too like east west hollywood strings which r a grand them selves , so thats another thing im worring about

thanks for clearing this out to me , i was confused about the use of converters and pres until u told that 98% of my work will be ITB

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.korg.com/"]Korg[/]="http://www.korg.com/"]Korg[/] Kronos is just adorable , pure quality , but i wouldnt wana go for something that has built-in sounds when all im using is plugins .

so at the end , would u reckon the UA apollo would be an overkill for me after u knew that im an ITB guy?

Yes and no. The Apollo has fine preamps, converters, interface and is loaded with world class plug-in for processing sounds. Having that will free up the processing drain on your computer giving you headroom for sound libraries and so on. It may be the ticket. It certainly will be the hottest product on your block for some time. If you don't find it useful, you will be able to sell it fast.

I'd get that, and kick ass software and make sure your CP ( computer) is up to par. See PCAudioLabs on the kind of computers pros use.