Well, I don't see that there's any reason to call you names.... LOL... other than perhaps a bit rushed - you say you don't have time to read Rod's book before the project begins...and while I don't think you need to try to read the entire book in 2 days, I do think it would be in your best interest to at least cover those section(s) that most pertain to your situation.

"I have a guy coming Monday to start ripping the old sheet rock off. I bought 9 rolls of #1 MLV and some acoustic caulk. Guy from Soundproofing america says it just needs to be put on to studs, caulk applied and sheet rock put back over. Somehow I am going to go out on a limb and say that is not going to be sufficient. I have an apartment that is very well built and insulated above my garage. It includes a very sturdy large steel beam that supports the floor. I have already installed a super quiet mini split Mitsubishi ductless A/C, ceiling cartridge style."

Personally speaking, I don't see much point in paying for construction or acoustic/sound proofing if there's even the hint of a chance that it won't be done right.

Rod has always been very helpful to those who own his book - perhaps you might consider shooting him a PM on this, or, you might query Space or Andre, our other resident acoustics pro's here at RO.

They are going to want details though, so be prepared to give them as much data as you can, pictures or drawings also help.

"HELP!! Don't have time to read Rods book. I admit I have gone so long without being able to do anything I just wanted to get going."

I have Rod's book, so I can understand why you'd be a bit hesitant to try and cram all that info into your brain in a few days ( or even in 2 months, for that matter )...and I've talked with all three of these very smart guys at length over the past several months; and have also been studying other relevant materials that both Andre and Space were so kind enough to share with me, and I can say with full confidence that - after several months of fairly regular study on the subject - I consider myself to be barely a beginner, so unfortunately, I can't offer any advice.

But... I will say that getting started just for the sake of wanting to get started isn't necessarily the right move here, Mak... it's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, and not a state of mind where - generally speaking - good things result. LOL... I've been guilty of it myself many times... being excited to start something, and having that "racehorse at the starting gate" enthusiasm... but in this case, having that mindset could result in your project being both costly and wrong.

So I guess my suggestion would be to reach out to Rod, Space or Andre via PM ... if you yourself are already having suspicions that this method might not be sufficient ( as you stated in your post ) then I certainly wouldn't be pulling the trigger on the project until I was absolutely sure that the proposed direction was the right direction. ;)

IMHO of course.

d/

(y) Donny, thanks. Yes, I have to deal with being bipolar too, so it's all a battle at the moment. Only bought the house end of June this year. Apartment was a HUGE selling point. Wife's been trying to help me get my own true space for years. This is the closest I have ever been. Definitely do not want to make a hash of it. As I said though, I do have to be mindful of possible resale impact. I guess all I really want to get sorted is what will applying the MLV and acoustic caulk do, if done properly, it seems from my 2 hours of reading stuff from Rod and others, that it's a viable solution. I cannot afford to take up much space in the room ceiling height for example is only 8 foot, and of course the HVAC ceiling cartridge is already in.

Cheers.

Even if you do not seem to be very clear about it (sorry frenchy me..)
I feel your main concern is blocking the noises from getting in the room. Or the sound getting out of the room.
There is no perfect Isolation but if you go to real mass (2-3 sheetrock + resilient channel + rockwool... etc.) you'll get optimal results.
Ex : http://www.asc-soundproof.com/iso-wall/system-diagrams/
But this also imply every surface of the room as equivalent isolation (doors, windows etc..)

What you need to know is that if not perfect, you can still have a very usable space.
You get a lot of noise reduction by using close mic technics and choosing the right time of day to record. (when there's no washing machine or other noisy appliances running ..)

I have build a room in a room at my house and even then the low frequencies get through 3 sheetrock, sonopan panels, rockwool a 3inches of air, rockwool again and a tile floor... do the best you can it'll be all right ! ;)

The only advice I will offer while you're waiting for Rod, Space, and/or Andre is not unlike what you've already heard. Going in blind AND in a rush will almost always end up in wasted time, money, and materials.

It doesn't matter if you have the perfect soundproofing material(s), if you end up poking a bunch of holes in it, or applying it incorrectly.

If it's already well insulated and there's nothing wrong with the old sheetrock, I'd slow down, not demolish anything, read the book, wait for good counsel.

Let me start with this....do not PM me or anyone else in respect to this issue. That said:

When it comes to sound isolation for your recording studio environment, you only need to keep four things in mind.

Mass: The first line of defense in soundproofing
Decoupling: Break the connections that sound vibrations use to get from one side of a wall to the other.
Distance: Gain better overall sound reduction and increased low frequency isolation.
Absorption: Control mid to high frequency and also damp the individual wall panels.

WALL ASSEMBLY AND ISOLATION:

(REF: Gypsum Board Walls: Transmission Loss Data | IRC-IR-761)
A typical wall assembly in a residential home may be where your search for a better isolated recording room will begin.

So we have to understand this wall to move forward and understand with a greater degree of certainty what other wall assemblies will produce in the way of isolation.

The typical residential bedroom wall, ½ inch sheetrock both sides with no insulation will get you an STC of around 28.

A standard 16 inch center, 2” X 4” wood framed wall with ½ inch sheetrock on either side and standard building insulation in the interior bays, will yield an STC of 33 with Transmission loss values that show an increase as mass is added.

If we look at this data side by side we can see that there is an overall transmission loss increase in the wall assembly where mass has been doubled on one side.

To further diagram the increase in TL values we simply look into the color coded chart that reveals visually how the wall assembly with the extra sheet of sheetrock has increased the TL values almost entirely across the frequency spectrum that were used in the test.

DOUBLING MASS:
With every doubling of mass you can expect to get a 5-6 dB increase in isolation. This is important to know.

Using the above example of a typical wall assembly found in any home, if you add another layer of 1/2” sheetrock to one of the existing sides, you could expect the STC value of 33 to go up to 36 or 39 points.

In reality it may only get you up to STC 35. This is where flanking and the coupled elements of the wall assembly work against you in the hunt for isolation.

So you may be thinking, assuming you even took the time to read this, “what does this have to do with MLV?”

Doubling of mass will produce a 5-6 dB increase in isolation. You can double the mass much more efficiently and financial effectively with 5/8 fire rated sheetrock. This is real mass at a cost per square foot much less than MLV and prover performance that far exceeds MLV.

http://isostore.com/faq/totalmass-mlv/
“When used in a framed structure, any benefit created by mass loaded vinyl is not from the actual mass itself. The structure already weighs several pounds per square foot more than the MLV. To increase isolation considerably with mass alone, the material would need to double the structure weight.

What MLV brings to the assembly is a material that resonates like no other building material. Every structure or material has a resonance point. Including mass loaded vinyl in the structure will resolve many resonance issues allowing consistent performance in mid to high frequencies.

However, using different thicknesses of materials for drywall or wood layers, or the inclusion of Green Glue Compound between layers, will also resolve these common resonance issues. “

What this is saying is you spent money on a thing thinking it was going to solve your isolation needs, and not only is it NOT going to do that but you are out the money for the MLV and you STILL have to buy/ install sheetrock, which is what needed to be done in the first place.

Send the MLV back and use the money on your unSPECIFIED isolation requirements.

Since you had no time to buy, much less read, Rods book consider yourself lucky that I even took the time to explain your error in thinking.

as an engineer, from a project management perspective, you have the cart in front of the horse and need to call an all stop: stop buying things, stop construction.

this is not something to rush through, and the line of q & a up to this point has me shaking my head. youre rushing, and youre pushing for answers, which makes tension.

this is the planning phase, and the most important part of every build process.
you must finish this conversation until you fully understand what the next steps need to be. make a drawing or map of the process to help you coordinate construction and materials.

then, and only then, can you schedule the construction and begin ordering materials.
plan first.

Josh Conley, post: 418806, member: 47953 wrote: as an engineer, from a project management perspective, you have the cart in front of the horse and need to call an all stop: stop buying things, stop construction.

this is not something to rush through, and the line of q & a up to this point has me shaking my head. youre rushing, and youre pushing for answers, which makes tension.

this is the planning phase, and the most important part of every build process.
you must finish this conversation until you fully understand what the next steps need to be. make a drawing or map of the process to help you coordinate construction and materials.

then, and only then, can you schedule the construction and begin ordering materials.
plan first.

Wrong answer....this is the GET EDUCATED stage. Planning is five months down the road.

First of all, thank you all gentlemen for your insights, and concerns, all of which are duly noted, and FULLY read :), (Always do read what people say to me). I am not in the habit of JUST jumping in, I checked the web for materials needed, decoupling etc, Did read stuff on acoustic guards site even watched some videos. When I was ready, I thought, I got advice from Soundproofing America, from Bob, who says he has done studios himself and told me what I needed. Hope that lowers my helpless case standing a little? :).

His original conversation with me had us putting the MLV on top of the existing sheet rock, then the 5/8 fire rock on top. That was changed because the gentleman doing the install pointed out issues with existing door and windows. I did explain what I wanted, and he told me to have the guy installing talk to him, all of which I did. I only started to feel nervous when I read here, I would have gone in blindly following otherwise. For that, I am thankful, but not to blame for it entirely.

I did not even know who Rod was etc. I have never had the budget or the place to do what I am doing, nor the necessity of noise isolation/reduction. The apartment is above a garage and has to remain in it's current floor plan, which is quite usable. I do not have noise entry issues to worry about, I just want to keep noise in, as best as possible. Allowing for the fact that at my last house, while standing outside, double pane glass, brick veneer, no wall insulation, drums came through standing near by outside at around 85db. A drop outside of 25-30db during daylight hours mostly, would be acceptable, total, very likely not doable for a number of reasons.

Current building to be used is vinyl siding over some sort of inner insulation, then batts, inside wood frame with sheet rock. Double pane windows, insulated ceiling low peak with a whirlybird on it. I have an 8 foot ceiling and with the hvac ceiling unit in making the ceiling lower is not an option, nor is lowering the floor for reasons including all the plumbing near it for the bathroom and kitchen.

I apologize if I hurt any sensibilities, I was really just asking for help to make sure I didn't have it completely wrong. I looked into MLV usage, I paid $1.20 per sq foot, not sure what 5/8 fire sheet rock costs per sheet or whatever, but the budget was/is considered for that also. May I repeat I had no reason to not listen to a gentleman who claims to do sound proofing himself. Call me naive, even after my 54 years almost on this planet, I am still not perfect and do listen to experts when told things.

The thing is, as Rod even says, you live with what you have sometimes. I did a LOT of reading when I became concerned. I had no reason to be concerned until I became curious about others experiences with doing it. I know it seems like cart before horse, but I do have budget set aside for building, and budget for gear. I am just making sure I have all the facts I wasn't told by the expert. We spoke about the things Space mentioned, and I was still only led down the path I was taking.

While I do want to get it done quickly, I am not just going to barge ahead. Now, room is 21 x 20 feet approximately, door enters with window to the right, and two on wall facing off the left, smaller window also in the kitchen area. I won't be doing the walls in the kitchen totally, can't, will be putting up some free standing isolation for there. If I have to compromise, which is HIGHLY likely, I have the MLV and Acoustic Caulk, and the Caulk Backer Rod. What is my best case scenario here please?. That is where I am at.

Edit: I am not an engineer, just a singer/songwriter producer with enough knowledge to be dangerous as I have always said :).

Best regards,

Tony

Problem is Tony...you have not asked first you are asking after the fact.

"His original conversation with me had us putting the MLV on top of the existing sheet rock, then the 5/8 fire rock on top. That was changed because the gentleman doing the install pointed out issues with existing door and windows."

I do not even know what that means.

A typical isolation procedure is to have the full interior hard boundaries match in mass. This means that windows often may be 1/4 inch laminated glass versus a double insulated window that has no mass, there is that word again. Doors will be solid core and seals will be complex...not for the DIY with limited to no skills.

You can call people who sell things and they will sell you things.

We sell nothing and give freely.

Rod has said you live with what you have...you, on the other hand, have developed a plan based on nothing we know is accurate and have not included any of the information that we have been handing out for a DECADE...and now you are re-thinking and getting the creeps over your decisions.

What do you want to do?

btw "Now, room is 21 x 20 feet approximately," yep, almost a square room and that means comb filtering from hello.

Good morning all,

Space, I again appreciate the input. I am not any further along than having bought the MLV and acoustic caulk and some caulk backer rod. I am not doing the job, a very experienced builder is doing it. What he isn't is a sound proofing guy. I am attaching photos to show what I am up against. Perhaps it will explain why I am in a bit of a pickle with what to do. I did watch videos and read up on what is really required as I said. Just enough to know what should/could be done. I then relied on the 'salesman', who claims to have installed many studios to get to where I am standing now.

Nothing is done, checking what I should do with what I HAVE to work with. I know I need a solid core door, Also know I have to do the windows, going to put an extra piece in and leave an air gap.

Back in California with a space made as best I could at the time, the doors along with a concrete floor that was the floor, carpet, insulation in the walls did a fine job, next door neighbours never ever heard me. I am above a garage, I can't lower the floor or raise the ceiling.

So with the walls, can I use the MLV, use decoupling on top of the MLV to the studs?. Insulation is inside the walls I believe, will know for sure if we pull the existing sheet rock off today. And floor, will MLV on the floor to subfloor, then carpet be sufficient to reduce outside transference. Keeping in mind we are very unlikely to get sound proofing. And yes I realize I have erroneously used that term, and really what I am doing is reduction. My apologies again.

As you will see below, the room is not perfectly square, as mentioned previously, there is a kitchen and bathroom, meaning a wall protrudes into the square. Along with cupboards and a stove sitting there as you will see. Fridge is gone :).

Studio 1 by [="https://www.flickr.com/people/9625867@N03/"]makzimia[/]="https://www.flickr…"]makzimia[/], on Flickr

Studio 2 by [[url=http://="https://www.flickr…"]makzimia[/]="https://www.flickr…"]makzimia[/], on Flickr

Studio 3 by [[url=http://[/URL]="https://www.flickr…"]makzimia[/]="https://www.flickr…"]makzimia[/], on Flickr

What he isn't is a sound proofing guy."

Red flag.

And if he's not knowledgeable in sound proofing, it's probably a pretty safe bet that he's clueless about acoustics as well.

"...I am not doing the job, a very experienced builder is doing it.

Experienced at what? Framing? Roofing? Remodeling?

Your situation and needs are far more specialized than to trust a general contractor/carpenter, no matter how good they are at what they do. I know several fantastic carpenters, some are good friends.
They can button up my roof so well it will keep me dry for decades, they could build me a garage so solid that it will remain standing long after I've left this world... but - they don't know the first thing about construction for soundproofing or acoustics.

Put it this way, Tony... You wouldn't go to a foot doctor if you had a respiratory problem, would you? So why would you choose a contractor who isn't knowledgeable at soundproofing/acoustics?

As an example, Space mentioned to you that with your current dimensions, you are going to face comb filtering as an issue. Could your "experienced builder" have caught that one for you?

You need to rein in the "gotta get this done right now" mindset .... stop the project, educate yourself further, and then, hire a company/contractor that specializes in studio construction or acoustics design and implementation.

What's the point in dropping money into a plan that won't work, or that won't result in what you want or need?

Space might disagree with me on this, ( and if he does then you should default to his information and not mine) but I'd suggest that you'd be better off to do nothing at all as opposed to spending money on someone who might do it wrong.

IMHO of course.

d/

Good morning Donny :).

First off, already called the very understanding gent that was going to do the work. I asked him if he is OK if I at the very least put him on hold to get someone to come look at what is really needed to be done. But for now, all is a full stop :).

Yes, the red flag did come up, but, not because of the builder, but due to the lack of information the Sound Proofing guy gave him. I did the research for months. Watched videos, checked materials. I had owned a 1/2 acre with a much larger space I was going to use. I then made the mistake of trusting Soundproofing America to give all the information, first red flag, any GC can install it for you. Second red flag, lack of bits needed doing. So, As I said a couple of days ago, when I discovered I was right to be concerned I then started this stressful voyage again. Rod, Space etc are all very experienced at this, and I did read threads over at GearSlutz in last couple of days to see what has been answered also.

My issues remains this.... budget and leaving parts untouched. I cannot change certain things about the space. I do not have a bottomless pit of money. I now need to find someone, as you all rightly say, that does know sound acoustic isolation. I just have issues with the trustworthiness of a lot of the people who work here in general. Had some serious rip off artists turn up for some stuff already, example:- A/C install a single mini split system, range of price 12.5k first guy 9.5k second guy, and final one was 6.7k (still expensive for what should have been about a 8 hrs job) and did a slow but great job.

Many people here in the US really don't care about ethics in business, and I had found a guy who does his job well, and was trustworthy, that is why I was going to use him. He was willing to be told what was needed to be done. And I believe still, that with exactly the right information, he would have got it done.

Anyway, that is all by the by, he was probably being polite, is pissed that he isn't working today possibly. I am open to suggestions of who to try that someone knows and trusts that isn't going to want a college fund to do this :).

A little bit of background more for expansion of my mindset here too. In the last 27 years I have moved around the world 5 times over 31 locations with my wifes work. Hence the, not wanting to do the full rip out of the guts of the apartment. If I ever was to sell the house in the future it would make it harder to sell. In the end, if whomever does this can make it so when I bang on the drums someone in the neighhourhood isn't banging on my door, or sending HOA notices.. I'll be happy :).

Humbly thankful,

Tony

Tony, it's an apartment. Leave it alone.

What are you trying to soundproof from? Are you going to be having bombastic heavy-metal drums bashing and crashing, for hours on end, starting at 2 AM? Because if you do? You don't want the studio in the apartment above the garage, next to your neighbors. You want your studio in the basement. No basement? No bashing and crashing drums then, after 10 PM and before 10 AM. At all. Ever. Sorry about your bipolar issues but... take another pill.

Are you right next to a busy thoroughfare, airport, construction site next door? Or are things relatively quiet, where you are?

Do you have neighbors that are 8-15 feet away from your garage? If so? Then you won't be doing any recording sessions after 10 PM and before 10 AM, so as not to wake the baby, next door. Because the baby doesn't give a damn about your bipolar disorder.

So you're either trying to keep the sound in, without going out? Are ya trying to keep the sound out from coming in? Because if you just learn how to use noise gates and downward expansion? You really don't need one iota of that acoustic nonsense gobbledygook, at all. Which is what I have been doing and using since 1978. They are in essence electronic acoustic control. Be it a hardware device or within software. There is something you must be practical about. Instead of wasting money on construction gobbledygook nonsense. You waste it, your money, on better equipment you can always take with ya. Instead of walls.

Sheet rock and Cheap rock can be misconscrewed, into thinking you are talking about the same thing? Rod's book and others like his, are designed for studio professionals that are already financially well-off. And who will be digging in, at their current location, for the next 10-20 years. Doesn't sound like that's in your scenario? So you need neither sheet rock, or any of that other nonsense. Don't want loud obnoxious sounds coming from your second story apartment above your garage? Don't waste your money on walls and other acoustic nonsense. Waste it on a beautiful, electronic, sophisticated, sampled drum set that makes no acoustic noise. Waste it on electric guitar cabinet emulators, so as never to need to turn an actual guitar amplifier up to ear bleeding levels. And a 58 for use on your vocals, so that a large diaphragm condenser microphone won't be picking up all of the off axis sound bouncing around that will sound like Doggy Doo Doo, Snooping, around. Which makes the 58 SM or Beta SH URE, for vocals and most everything else, the only microphone to get. Buy them by the bagful and you'll never look back.

The reason I go off about this stuff is because of the work I have been doing for nearly one quarter century. Having been both a live radio broadcaster network television broadcaster, recording studio owner and live on location recording and television production truck owner. You don't get the choice of acoustics and sound proofing under on location jobs/projects. You get none of that. And you still have to make it sound like a hit record. No matter how awful the acoustics might be or how much outside noise interference there is. It's all a matter of proper engineering techniques, skills, knowledge. It ain't drive-through, its drive to. And it doesn't happen automatically reading a book on acoustics or not reading a book on acoustics. It comes from practical knowledge and experience over a period of time. And I've just foreshortened that for ya by a factor of 10 years or more. Free knowledge I've also had to instruct the college professors about. Believe it. You don't get 4 major music award nominations and adulation from others if you tell them you can't get a good recording because of the acoustic structure of the environment. They don't care about that. They only want a good recording that sounds great. And if you know how to deliver? Then ya can deliver. Don't know the way? Then you'll get lost and the Chinese food will be cold. And they won't accept your apology. They'll tell ya to go back and get them what they ordered. A hot recording! And that's up to you. Not the acoustics. Not really when dealing with pop music. Acoustics are important for operatic and symphonic work. They really don't make a good god damn when dealing with pop music. That's up to the engineer's skills not the environment. It's poppycock BS.

So rest easy. Because the rest is easy.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Heya Remy, appreciate the levity after feeling like I stepped on some large toes :). I am actually just trying to keep some of the noise in. I am used to recording all sorts of stuff in much less than ideal conditions, not always successfully, but have done it. I actually recorded Eric Heydock and his boys in a two story home in Manchester with no anything except good mics. Drummer was down in the lounge, ran a 100 foot 16 way snake upstairs, Eric and the boys took turns otherwise in there with me to do each of their tracks, 2 at once other than me at most :).

I think after not giving quite enough information, and sounding less clued in than what I was, we are settled in now. Proper guy coming out Saturday to sort it out. I am not going to go overboard, but I do want to be able to not have the local HOA here come knocking if I play my drums. It is very quiet around here thankfully, and I want to help keep it relatively that way. Trust me, even though I am not a heavy metal drummer, I do have a solid foot. Used to have really nice Roland V-drums, but, I prefer acoustic everyday. Also prefer the organic nature of the guitar amps. I have a POD HD500x and an Eleven rack, but can't beat a good sounding valve amp live.

Anyway, I am moving forward from my initial debacle. Will keep you all posted as progress is made :).

Many thanks again,

Tony

RemyRAD, post: 418844, member: 26269 wrote:

Sheet rock and Cheap rock can be misconscrewed, into thinking you are talking about the same thing? Rod's book and others like his, are designed for studio professionals that are already financially well-off.
Mx. Remy Ann David

I would like for you to explain to the rest of the world what the difference is between sheetrock and cheaprock since you seem to have a handle on it. Further, Rods book is not for the financially well off it is for the persons that subscribe to do a job as best they can in the arena of acoustics and isolation, what you and the vast majority call sound proofing.

I would ask you Ms. Remy, to stick with what you do well, and continue to do that well so people can learn from your experience. Outside of that, you are out of your area of expertise and I would consider it a personal favor if you would continue to extract yourself from these conversations that you can not help with.

Beyond that, I will remove posts from you that I find that lead the poster astray or do, as this one does, cripples the poster with no education or offends the work of a good author.

We cannot have this type of behavior.

Drywall is recommended for mass because it is the cheapest material that can used in any construction for mass in the market that Rod's book is trageted at. In my neck of the woods, a sheet of type X drywall is $14.65. That is $0.46/ft². That particular drywall has a surface density of 2.2 lb/ft². If you want to duplicate the surface mass of the MLV, 1/2" drywall has a surface mass of 1.22 lb/ft² and costs $6.49 per sheet. That is $0.20/ft². The exact values for you project depend on what is available in you neck of the woods of course.

Andre

Thank you Andre. The gent coming on Saturday I am sure will make a good assessment, he also knows of Rod. I have his book (Rods) coming for my own edification for anything that happens in the future. As I said from the get go, this place has many compromises over an ideal situation, if there is such a thing, probably purpose built. But anyway, again, thanks for all to get me moving the right direction this time about.

Tony

Here in Ohio, Type X ( Firecode Core), 5/8" in 4'x8' sheets is $9.25 per sheet. 4' x 12' sheets are $17.25 per sheet.

Gold Bond Soundbreak Type X - 5/8" is quite a bit more - average market price in my area - as of this writing - is around $18 for a 4 'x 8' sheet, and you can't just walk into any local Home Depot or Loews and buy it like you can regular drywall. You need to have a contractor's account. Not sure why that is, but that's the way it is... in my area anyway. This might be different in Canada.

As far as its value, Andre or Space would have to be the ones to tell you if Soundbreak Type X is a good type of drywall to use for your application. I have no idea... I'm just giving local prices.

d/

5/8 drywall is gonna be the same and from brand to brand shouldn't make much of a difference. I've found the other alternatives like rc channel, mlb, and green glue, seem to fall in the range of %50 to double the equivalent sqf of 5/8 drywall on a wood frame. I have seen some new lightweight drywall, but that defeats the purpose, and it's more per sheet.

In my area it's a diff is about $2 between regular 1/2" and regular 5/8.

And while I agree remy fairly often, I will say that her thoughts on rods book are way off, IMHO. It is meant for people interested in how to treat and build studio style rooms, using (mostly) readily available stuff. Lead sheets, gaskets, and rock wool/rigid fiberglass usually take a little looking. But really his book is designed to give a clear description of techniques, and special cases, that are not typical things you would encounter in home improvement situation. It is in plain language, but very very detailed. I've read it 5 times cover to cover, and constantly refer to it.

It focuses on practicality, and real world compromises, and Modesty. Yes it's gonna be expensive, but that's studio stuff in general, not cuz rod recommends some esoteric method/materials. There are books that dive deeper into acoustics and math, but it's the only one I've seen w such detailed build diagrams.

Havering had the luck of being able to build 4 different studio windows exactly as described in his book his techniques work. Nothing he invented, he just channels it nicely, and is very very descriptive if the details, which make or break a sound focused room.

Type X is commercial fire rated and has a more uniform density. It will give the better performance over typical drywall of the same thickness.

Typical drywall and especially the kind you find at big box stores is "lighter" and is marketed that way, like it being not as heavy as it used to be means something good to the consumer. In an acoustic room sense, it is to be avoided because it has less mass and surface density.

Space, post: 419010, member: 32398 wrote:
Typical drywall and especially the kind you find at big box stores is "lighter" and is marketed that way, like it being not as heavy as it used to be means something good to the consumer. In an acoustic room sense, it is to be avoided because it has less mass and surface density.

Although I will say that I've recently noticed (and by recent I'm referring to the last 2 years or so) that at several of the local big box DIY stores, there seems to be more of a focus put on sound barrier-type construction materials... special drywall, channeling, insulation with higher absorption factors, etc. than there used to be.

I don't know if this is because more consumers are building home theaters, or if the home/hobby recording studio industry is also playing a part in it - I don't know - perhaps it's both?

Anyway, I am noticing more sound barrier, absorption, and decoupling supplies being made available to the weekend DIY'er than I used to.

It might be possible that sound transmission/attenuation is becoming a bigger home improvement market than it once was, when it was pretty much limited only to specialty construction projects that called for it.
As you mentioned, most people prefer "light and cheap", but, maybe that's changing?

Or, perhaps Rod's book sales are doing quite well, which AFAIC, is as it should be. ;)

FWIW

d/

My suggestions are 100% valid. Tried and true. It's you guys that have coupled yourself to books.

The definition of Cheap rock versus drywall. It's just that. An item that I've used is called " feather rock ". Feather rock is a lightweight rock from lava. It has a huge amount of tiny little holes in it. Is extremely lightweight. Can be easily mortared to plywood and drywall. Provides both diffusion and absorption. And it costs virtually nothing! And in the end... it looks fabulous! And it's lightweight! So it's cheap. It's light. Some of it is free. You can start with a little and keep adding to it as time goes.

I designed and built my studio using that cheap, lightweight, feather rock, back in the late 1970s. When you guys were still watching Bozo the clown. It didn't weigh a ton. It weighs only a few hundred pounds. And the look is spectacular. I mean you could use granite, granted. But your structure, my thought, might not support that weight? It's not just about the walls but the floor that it's on. And you guys are thinking purely on an industrial level for a home studio. And some of that stuff is a lot more costly than getting stoned. I mean getting those stones... when you're stoned. It looks so good, you might not even want to take it down when you get ready to move out?

There was a lot more of that stuff back on my planet where I came from.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Type X is commercial fire rated and has a more uniform density. It will give the better performance over typical drywall of the same thickness.

Hmm didn't know that. Probably cuz I'm always comparing the cheapest 5/8 to the cheapest 5/8 of the other big box stores, and usually they are similar/identical in Psf. Interesting.

Type X is commercial fire rated and has a more uniform density. It will give the better performance over typical drywall of the same thickness.

Hmm didn't know that. Probably cuz I'm always comparing the cheapest 5/8 to the cheapest 5/8 of the other big box stores, and usually they are similar/identical in Psf. Interesting.

Type X is commercial fire rated and has a more uniform density. It will give the better performance over typical drywall of the same thickness.

Hmm didn't know that. Probably cuz I'm always comparing the cheapest 5/8 to the cheapest 5/8 of the other big box stores, and usually they are similar/identical in Psf. Interesting.

Update : Rods book being read. In limbo waiting on quote from local guy who actually does it properly, but is clearly very busy.. ahhh.. 3 mths and still waiting..

Thought it was time to give an update. I eventually ended up with the job being done by the gentleman I started with. After the 'Pro' came out and was totally uncommunicative. What I managed to end up with does in fact achieve what I set out to do. Neighbours will not be getting bothered, and as you'll see from the photos we went a step further to ensure that.

Starting with the room I previously showed a photo of, we covered the windows with 5/8 inch X fire rated (per others advise), also acoustic foam. MLV was hung correctly on studs and sealed with 5/8 inch again (walls had good R rating insulation batts everywhere too, ceiling also). We also enclosed the kitchen area in a wall (insulation batts, MLV and X 5/8 inch too) to eliminate that window and the cupboards etc. On the floor which had 3/4 inch plywood we added 1/2 wood siding with green glue layed in opposite, then we layed opposite with acoustic underlay for final of bamboo flooring.

Final step will be painting now and acoustic treatment via advice from Auralex supplying them with dimensions. It is not perfect, it is not by the book, however it does meet the level I could a: afford, and b: met my needs to be able to do my work.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/makzimia/sets/72157649003491821/

Sorry couldn't work out how to imbed the photos...

At the end of the day...the MLV isn't do as big a thing as you think it is. I am glad that you have something to work with.

Thanks for the update. Congratulations on your progress and recognition of what is affordable and acceptable!

Andre

Thank you Andre :). And here is a set of pictures showing the transition, quite spectacular to see. To hear of course is where it counts. So far, I am very pleased with what we achieved.

Nice ! A lot of box to unpack ;)

Did you do some kind of calculation for you threatment ? How does the diffusers work for you ?

Looks great. Congratulations!

Andre

Yes lots to unpack and install. Taking a break today, tennis elbow finally needed seeing to, too much pain, one injection later..

pcrecord, post: 422082, member: 46460 wrote: Did you do some kind of calculation for you threatment ? How does the diffusers work for you ?

I actually worked with Auralex on providing a recommended placement setup. I sent a detailed measurement set and requirements to them. Spent a small amount of time on the phone confirming some changes, and it got sent to me in the boxes. I made some judgement calls when I could see where things would sit in relation to say, my desk, my drums, the amps. The T- Fusers I filled with fiber insulation, and you will note they are laid on the wall in different directions.

Sitting at the drums brought me the first real realization of the change to the room. I wanted to keep some life for tracking down the end. The drums sound punchy and tight now, it's very nice. At the desk end I wanted as close to controlled as I could, given the situation. With the 4 x 2x2ft squares over my head and the surrounding other applications, I have a quiet tight space sound to mix in. The overall sound is much more open already on mixes I did previously, open to hearing issues I didn't hear before :). Final step, sound wise now, will be to set the Event Opals up with their setup stuff, which hopefully won't take too long to turn up. At the moment, as I said, even not done, the difference is night and day to ANYTHING I have ever had the chance to work (on my own) with, over the last almost 30 years.

No more temporary spaces :).

Tony