pcrecord We’ve had a cloud network local drive for years. I am thinking of changing it out for SSD version though. Just to get even longer out of it. It’s an old WD MyCloud, had it at least 5 years, no issues.

I ran a BBS in early to mid 90s and an early MMORPG server in early 2ks. I am all about backups :).

Makzimia, post: 466214, member: 48344 wrote: pcrecord We’ve had a cloud network local drive for years. I am thinking of changing it out for SSD version though. Just to get even longer out of it. It’s an old WD MyCloud, had it at least 5 years, no issues.

I ran a BBS in early to mid 90s and an early MMORPG server in early 2ks. I am all about backups :).

WD MyCloud are good product.. Think of having a unit with 2 or more drives for redundancy... it may save you !

pcrecord, post: 466215, member: 46460 wrote: WD MyCloud are good product.. Think of having a unit with 2 or more drives for redundancy... it may save you !

You're preaching to the choir Marco :)

:D

pcrecord, post: 466211, member: 46460 wrote: Hi gang.
One of the things we often neglect is to backup our files and projects.
With the holidays specials, I found many NAS to be on rebate.
My favorites are the QNAP !
I found one on Newegg.ca (Canadian site) at half the price.

If you were wandering where to invest in your studio, that's my suggestion !
Have nice holidays and good virtual family reunion (if like us you are not allowed for physical ones)
Marco

What model(s) are you using? I got a ts-251 based on your reccomendation of qnap a few years ago. And also a mycloud.

Ive been exploring the idea of setting up a truenas based nas out of an old pc, but i dunno if it will be too much tweaking for me. I like the tried and true software package in the qnap and mycloud.

Maybe some combo of all is the right balance between cost, simplicity, and performance.

I've got a synology 220 and it's changed the way I work totally. In the audio studio I now record via the network to the drive - and all my business files now are on it - so that's my cubase folders, my documents, my video files and graphics stuff. My computers in the office about half a mile away are synced to it so I can edit video and audio there too and the things syncs the files up automatically, but I can access them from the net too. I have to say it's worked perfectly and all the computers seem to work exactly as before. Cubase for example works happily using the the local sampler files, but streaming the audio files off the NAS drive. The other computer in my studio that runs video (Premiere) has no issues pulling video over the network at the speed it needs, while Premiere on the office computer is using the local files synced from the NAS. I've also got file security by having them on the office computer as a backup, if the NAS died. It's been a while but I bought the unit and the drives and it formatted and sorted itself out without any grief. It just works - can't say better than that.

Any issues with latency when recording?

I also have a WD MyCloud which has served me well for a long time.

kmetal, post: 466229, member: 37533 wrote: Any issues with latency when recording?

I'm not recording over the network, I use it only for backups and I set up a plex server for media streaming in our home..
I record to an M.2 drive, one of the fastest... ;)

I just record as I did before and I don't see any difference at all. As far as I can tell it's transparent. I think I see a small lag on saving audiophiles from Soundforge, that I use to edit complete tracks. Pressing save has the progress indicator on screen a little longer and in Adobe Photoshop, if I click save to save in .psd format, followed by an immediate save as a jpg, I sometimes get a message saying it will happen when the previous file has saved. This didn't happen before, but for what I do I am perfectly happy with the way it works. The only thing that sometimes happens is that in the office I power down those computers when I go home. Here, they are on 24/7, so in the office the sync can only happen when they're powered up, and if I have been busy at home, then sometimes I scratch my head because I cannot find something? Usually spreadsheets and invoices that kind of thing. I don't know if the sync is done by creation/modification date, or size, but getting the sync done sometimes isn't done as quick as I would like, but it's my fault. The Synology web app allows you to instantly download anything anyway, so if I really need something I just do that as a one off. I saved some files on the office Mac, and I noticed them appear on the PC after a couple of minutes. Operation wise though, I'm really pleased with the system.

paulears, post: 466236, member: 47782 wrote: I just record as I did before and I don't see any difference at all. As far as I can tell it's transparent. I think I see a small lag on saving audiophiles from Soundforge, that I use to edit complete tracks. Pressing save has the progress indicator on screen a little longer and in Adobe Photoshop, if I click save to save in .psd format, followed by an immediate save as a jpg, I sometimes get a message saying it will happen when the previous file has saved. This didn't happen before, but for what I do I am perfectly happy with the way it works. The only thing that sometimes happens is that in the office I power down those computers when I go home. Here, they are on 24/7, so in the office the sync can only happen when they're powered up, and if I have been busy at home, then sometimes I scratch my head because I cannot find something? Usually spreadsheets and invoices that kind of thing. I don't know if the sync is done by creation/modification date, or size, but getting the sync done sometimes isn't done as quick as I would like, but it's my fault. The Synology web app allows you to instantly download anything anyway, so if I really need something I just do that as a one off. I saved some files on the office Mac, and I noticed them appear on the PC after a couple of minutes. Operation wise though, I'm really pleased with the system.

So to clarify, your recording audio and running a session right from the nas, just as you would a typical audio drive in the computer?

What speed internet connection are you using gigabit?

Also any special networking/security stuff involed?

Re: the network. If there is clever stuff going on, the nas is doing it. I just installed the Synology software and the bog standard network cabled system I have had in the building for years. Give me a while and I’ll see if I can break it. I’ll record some multiple tracks and see how many I can get up and down before it falls over. Just because it works on my usual workflow instead good enough if other people do things differently. Give me a while, maybe later today.
If you go to the synology site I think you can download all their software to have a look at even without owning the drive. I’ve got a mix of Mac and pcs. The only oddity is one pc that seems to access the nas differently. Setting them up was not too bad, but they’re all a bit different, which probably is me. On the macs, if I select a location, such as documents, it shows me a list of folders, and if I pick one, the folders I see are the locally hosted copies of the nas folders. So changes I make there get mirrored over the internet when I save. Normally it does it there and then. On one of, the nas shows in file manager as a location and I work on that folder direct, and on another I see folders that have synology folders inside them, which are the ones on the drive. Another accesses the nas via my d: drive so selecting documents takes me to the local documents drive but selecting d drive documents is the shared documents folder. This I’m certain is me setting them up days apart and doing it differently. Cubase in the office is running off synced local folders, the one in the studio at home runs off the network to the drive in another room.

I’ll report back on track count.

paulears, post: 466246, member: 47782 wrote: the folders I see are the locally hosted copies of the nas folders. So changes I make there get mirrored over the internet when I save.

So if understand correctly, the initial read/write load goes to your local drive, then it gets mirrored/backup to your NAS.
If that's the case, it's best of both world, you get the performance of your local drive but automaticly get a backup.

kmetal, post: 466243, member: 37533 wrote: What speed internet connection are you using gigabit?

I doubt we could record many tracks in realtime to an online storage unless you are on the same local network as the NAS. In that case you would be limited by the network infrastructure performances (wifi / router or switchs / cables etc.)
On Cat 6, you can transfer up to 1000BASE-T, but in reality it will give you between 30 to 100mb/sec depending on the quality of the equipements. On a wifi connection it can drop to 5 to 45mb/sec. meaning you could not record more than 3-5 tracks at the time and less if you use playback at the same time. Those are not scientific numbers.. but it's what I expect in real life with consumer equipements..

Right then - I've made sure the recorded files are going straight to the NAS by watching the folder on the NAS on another computer, and can see them appear when record is pressed. Cubase project folder and the audio file just on the NAS connecte with my old basic network that goes to the intermnet router from the studio and the NAS is hanging off a spare port there.

I tried 16 at once and it worked so I went straight to 32 tracks, routed a single mic to all 32 and pressed record. I did ten seconds first and on pressing stop, it took 3 seconds for the green play light on my Steinberg CC121 controller to go out. The performance monitored showed disk caching every 5-6 seconds up to about theend of the 10 second clip which if looped just flickered once or twice in the 10 sec period. all 32 tracks recorded fine with no glitches and also all replayed fine. To see if there were any data issues with a fuller cache- I recorded again all 32 at one time and kept recording for 3.30. again, all OK. On replay of 32 the disck cache was less a burst after a few seconds then maybe 30 seconds and a couple then no more for 40 seconds. 3.30 of audio coming off the nas at 44.1, 24 bit which is my standard recording format

I know lots would think 44.1 a terrible choice so i did a new project at 96K 24 bit. 32 tracks was too much the cache meter went up then peaked, the red warning came on and there was a break in the data. Didn't crash though. So I went down to 24 simultaneous tracks and while the cache came close to the top, it stabilised and no data was lost.

Conclusions - 32 tracks of 24 but 44.1K are totally solid.
24 tracks of 96K 24 bit didn't drop any data.

I suppose the only snag is that you'd need to make sure nobody else used the network for heavy stuff while you nwere recording, but I'm quite impressed with the 32 simultaneous tracks at 44.1.

Hope this helps

EDIT as PCrecord posted while I was typing - As far as I can tell apart from the local cache, the audio files are going straight to the NAS, not being duplicated locally. Certainly all the folders point to the nas, and all files in the audio pool are on the nasdrive.

Pressing stop on the 24 track 96k recording took 11 seconds for the record light to go out, and everything was frozen up to that point - assume while the cache files got to the nas and it cleaned up. the bog standard network seems to not be the jam I assumed. I can read or write any combination of tracks up to these limits - perhaps further, but this is where I am at. Not bad at all. usually I'll only be recording a few tracks at once here - maybe 5 or six max, but nice I can push it if I want

Just to make it clear - the remote site has local copies that get synced, but here where the audio studio is, there is no internet involved - just the local wired network.

paulears, post: 466248, member: 47782 wrote: Right then - I've made sure the recorded files are going straight to the NAS by watching the folder on the NAS on another computer, and can see them appear when record is pressed. Cubase project folder and the audio file just on the NAS connecte with my old basic network that goes to the intermnet router from the studio and the NAS is hanging off a spare port there.

I tried 16 at once and it worked so I went straight to 32 tracks, routed a single mic to all 32 and pressed record. I did ten seconds first and on pressing stop, it took 3 seconds for the green play light on my Steinberg CC121 controller to go out. The performance monitored showed disk caching every 5-6 seconds up to about theend of the 10 second clip which if looped just flickered once or twice in the 10 sec period. all 32 tracks recorded fine with no glitches and also all replayed fine. To see if there were any data issues with a fuller cache- I recorded again all 32 at one time and kept recording for 3.30. again, all OK. On replay of 32 the disck cache was less a burst after a few seconds then maybe 30 seconds and a couple then no more for 40 seconds. 3.30 of audio coming off the nas at 44.1, 24 bit which is my standard recording format

I know lots would think 44.1 a terrible choice so i did a new project at 96K 24 bit. 32 tracks was too much the cache meter went up then peaked, the red warning came on and there was a break in the data. Didn't crash though. So I went down to 24 simultaneous tracks and while the cache came close to the top, it stabilised and no data was lost.

Conclusions - 32 tracks of 24 but 44.1K are totally solid.
24 tracks of 96K 24 bit didn't drop any data.

I suppose the only snag is that you'd need to make sure nobody else used the network for heavy stuff while you nwere recording, but I'm quite impressed with the 32 simultaneous tracks at 44.1.

Hope this helps

EDIT as PCrecord posted while I was typing - As far as I can tell apart from the local cache, the audio files are going straight to the NAS, not being duplicated locally. Certainly all the folders point to the nas, and all files in the audio pool are on the nasdrive.

Pressing stop on the 24 track 96k recording took 11 seconds for the record light to go out, and everything was frozen up to that point - assume while the cache files got to the nas and it cleaned up. the bog standard network seems to not be the jam I assumed. I can read or write any combination of tracks up to these limits - perhaps further, but this is where I am at. Not bad at all. usually I'll only be recording a few tracks at once here - maybe 5 or six max, but nice I can push it if I want

Just to make it clear - the remote site has local copies that get synced, but here where the audio studio is, there is no internet involved - just the local wired network.

Fascinating.

What im not clear on is how your wired to the nas locally from a couple miles away?

Or is it you have a nas wired locally at the studio, that syncs with Another nas down the road via the internet?

Im not sure how you have things connected.

pcrecord, post: 466247, member: 46460 wrote: I doubt we could record many tracks in realtime to an online storage unless you are on the same local network as the NAS. In that case you would be limited by the network infrastructure performances (wifi / router or switchs / cables etc.)
On Cat 6, you can transfer up to 1000BASE-T, but in reality it will give you between 30 to 100mb/sec depending on the quality of the equipements. On a wifi connection it can drop to 5 to 45mb/sec. meaning you could not record more than 3-5 tracks at the time and less if you use playback at the same time. Those are not scientific numbers.. but it's what I expect in real life with consumer equipements..

Good info there. I know next to nothing about networks, its an area i want to get educated in, given its how the world runs now.

Is a gigabit network about the same speed as an Hdd? I may be confusing bits and bytes. I thought an hdd was about 100mb/s.

The NAS acts as a RAID to the computers on the home network both cabled and wireless. The NAS also syncs to the two computers in my office by syncing the same named folders. So if I record something on Cubase pro at home, by the time I drive to the office I can carry on in Cubase elements as the files have synced will travelling via the net. If I make some edits maybe to add to video work, I save it and go home and I can carry on because the NAS has drawn the changed files back and made them available.

I bought mine because a friend also works from two sites, but with one person at each site, and they have two Synology drives, one at each end, and they do like mine, do the data storage for the two Cubase systems where they mirror each other via the internet, and act as an extra backup. The only drawback to my system is that the two computers in the office can't be used together. In my studio at home both the PCs can use the same NAS files - so I can create album art for releases on one, create the audio on the other, and either can upload to Distrokids the album art and audio as the files are stored in the same place - on the NAS.

pcrecord, post: 466215, member: 46460 wrote: WD MyCloud are good product.. Think of having a unit with 2 or more drives for redundancy... it may save you !

WD has an awful security reputation. Like not fixing critical bugs at all. Qnap is much, much better and Synology is even a little better than Qnap.

paulears, post: 466248, member: 47782 wrote: EDIT as PCrecord posted while I was typing - As far as I can tell apart from the local cache, the audio files are going straight to the NAS, not being duplicated locally. Certainly all the folders point to the nas, and all files in the audio pool are on the nasdrive.

Humm ?? I don't know on MACs, but on windows, Cached data are being copied by the synchro which is not done in real time. Unless you are not using the offline files fonctions and another sync process.
I would wish that the initial writing would be done on the fastest path first and then synched in the background..
Of course, all that counts is that it works for you !! ;)

kmetal, post: 466251, member: 37533 wrote: Is a gigabit network about the same speed as an Hdd?

No, writing to a HDD or an SDD is faster when done locally compared to over the network..
Unless you aggregate more that one gigabit network interface, then the speed can be equal (of course it depends on the speed of the storage device)

pcrecord, post: 466262, member: 46460 wrote: No, writing to a HDD or an SDD is faster when done locally compared to over the network..
Unless you aggregate more that one gigabit network interface, then the speed can be equal (of course it depends on the speed of the storage device)

Awesome, thanks for clarifying this!!!