Hi,

There are some great replies on the iZ forum.

Check it out!

The snag with this of course is the same with going into any niche product. The selling features seem to be aimed fairly and squarely at those chasing ultra HD quality audio. There will be people who really do see their cash balanced across this ability to generate superb quality audio. In a way, ever since audio began being done with computers, these products have had a market. I bought into one in the 90s - the Soundscape System - dedicated hardware that produced the magic, and something far, far away from the stuff everyone else had at the time. I moved to it after being a Cubase user - which was then, MIDI only. I kept the MIDI but started recording in the box. A year of frustration that it really just didn't work for me, meant I went to ADAT, because my friends and colleagues had ADAT and we could share, and work on each others products. With Soundscape, I could work in the studio and nowhere else. I put 8 tracks of ADAT in my home studio and I could work at home.

I won't be doing it again. A few studios had RADAR, but it was never universal, and the new version from the current manufacturer is, I am sure, a fine product - but it is NOT an industry standard, far from it. They have a decent user base of working studios, but the sheer number of alternative systems out there would make the 'standard' difficult to quantify. As a stand alone, none computer system it could be market leader because the market for these is not huge. Protools would seem to be difficult to go up against.

I suppose it's down to how the 'quality' matters. For me - I'm having real issues hearing quality differences now. 44.1, 16 bit up to 96, 32 bit, and the differences seem to be so tiny - I really cannot be sure I am hearing them, and not just what I've recorded.

This product has documented audio quality that is first class. It has quite a few useful features, but it's a clever tape recorder and every owner of a computer based DAW can add HUGE, simply HUGE quantities of personalisation. No two users ever have identical systems with identical sounds and facilities and when I receive Cubase projects from clients and colleagues, I'm amazed at the staggering numbers of plugins they have that I don't. Almost infinite flexibility, and you can never have this with Radar because it's solid, tested, and unique. The big user base of any of the popular DAWs makes flexibility much better. I know Radar's fundamental feature is audio quality, but with this removed from the equation, I'm not sure what it does that is streets ahead of everything else.

I'm positive the users are all really happy with the system and are very enthusiastic about it - but I know I shall never invest again in a non computer system. Just not for me.

With Radar it comes down to a few REAL factors.

#1 It's ease of use, takes literally minutes to power up and record. If you are familiar with a tape machine, then this is a no brainer.
#2 It's Sonics, second to none, even with their entry level Radar Classic Convertors.
#3 It's reliability, I owned 5 of these units at one time, only one ever had a problem, and was addressed and fixed in a matter of hours.

Nothing else like it available, period.
www.millbrooksoundstudio.com

I thought about buying Radar years back (2002/4 but figured it would become hostage to its own converters and a dated OS. Looking back, I feel that was a good decision, thus I had fun building a modular hybrid system that was pretty cool.
In the last decade converters/interfaces have become so smooth and reliable. My last rig was Madi and that was flawless. To my tests, having a good PCIe interface matched to the converter works great even on a basic windows system for thousands less than Radar. Being said, Radar is very cool.

Are they still around?

yes they are. as i see it, the upside to Radar is you are't held hostage to upgrade cycles and comptibilty issues. that's a big plus to me. Radar also fuctions as a conventional 24 channel converter if you want. that way you don't need a console.

Kurt Foster, post: 467176, member: 7836 wrote:
Radar also fuctions as a conventional 24 channel converter if you want. that way you don't need a console.

But you can buy an 8, 16, 24, 32, 64 channel(s) with a matched interface and a pro Windows 10 box for thousands less. Exact quality if not superior sound as well. That’s a fact.

it really comes down to paying Radar to build the setup for you instead of yourself.

I don’t doubt it’s pedigree, as it’s something new owners considered worth buying, but the concern nowadays is sinking money into a one box product. What is it like for virtual instruments, encoding, integration with things like spectral layers, or it’s ability to pitch shift, time align and handle video?

some people don't want all that stuff. everyone doesn't play keyboards. hard to believe but there are still some bands who can play whole songs without mistakes. all they need is a recorder that can do punch ins. it's all i want. but i don't need 24 tracks so i'm out. 8 is enough! if they made an 8 track i'd be all over it.!

Kurt Foster, post: 467181, member: 7836 wrote:
some people don't want all that stuff. everyone doesn't play a key board. hard to believe but there are still some bands who still can play a whole song without mistakes. all they need is a recorder that can do punch ins. it's all i want. but i don't need 24 tracks so i'm out. 8 is enough!

No offence Kurt but I really don't think you realize how uncomplicated a DAW is and how Radar vs a DAW is the same thing. No offence to Radar users or the company but Radar is just a DAW built by Radar for people who don't either want to learn how to build the same thing or because they subscribe to the hype of which Radar came about which began about the time you joined RO.
People like mixerman got into it because they didn't like Pro Tools 16 (aka Alsihad). They started running down Pro Tools for a reason, which was all to make people believe they were doing something better then the rest of us :sneaky:. Long and boring history but its no better or simpler than a basic DAW.
Digital audio is digital audio. You need a keypad to press on and off just like any platform. Good better or best interface and converters are available to us all.

Radar equals an interface, converters, windows 10, hard drives and your fav DAW and you can call it want you want. It's an overpriced DAW on Windows 10.

yeah but it doesn't do internet and video and video chat and games or have a surreptitious camera running all the time and all the other stuff that home computers are built to do. there's no bloatware or hidden stuff running in the background. it doesn't pick up unwanted cookies and junk from the internet. once you have a system running there aren't any unwanted updates.

since it doesn't use plug ins the user isn't forced into a cycle of upgrades to keep compatible. i know it's a computer but it's a proprietary system that is not open. so it remains stable and is not subject to slowing down as time passes like many computers seem to be designed to do. last it is a product built for professional use. most computers are home appliances.

i love computers. just not for recording. i tried it and i don't like it. there's too much like menus and file directories and freezing channels and delay compensation etc. that doesn't have anything to do with music or the recording process for me to deal with. i distracts me. i don't like how hard it is to record into a mix. for the way i like to work, it doesn't work.

but if i did get a computer for recording i would want something like a Radar. but if others like recording on computers, that's good too. i'm not trying to convince anyone. just answering questions.

Kurt Foster, post: 467183, member: 7836 wrote:
yeah but it doesn't do internet and video and video chat and games or have a surreptitious camera running all the time and all the other stuff that home computers are built to do. there's no bloatware or hidden stuff running in the background. it doesn't pick up unwanted cookies and junk from the internet. once you have a system running there aren't any unwanted updates.

Yes, it would or could but its turned off or disabled. Sincerely, Kurt... If you understood computing today, you'd actually see that Radar is foolish to even consider. Also, companies like Magix (makers of Samplitude or Sequoia) have a simple program you can install that optimizes your PC. Or, you can simply disable what you don't want running in the background, yourself. Which is what most of us do today.

To add... you actually want audio/video, online uploading and downloading all connected to the web on a PC/DAW to do collaborations etc "TODAY! Adding a nice 4K 75in TV for a monitor makes it even better. And you DAW shouldn't freeze up like the old days.

audiokid, post: 467185, member: 1 wrote:
Yes, it would or could but its turned off or disabled. Sincerely, Kurt... If you understood computing today, you'd actually see that Radar is foolish to even consider. Also, companies like Magix (makers of Samplitude or Sequoia) have a simple program you can install that optimizes your PC. Or, you can simply disable what you don't want running in the background, yourself. Which is what most of us do today.

To add... you actually want audio/video, online uploading and downloading all connected to the web on a PC/DAW to do collaborations etc. And they don't freeze up like the old days. At least not when I'm in control.
The modern DAWworld is so friken awesome now! Radar days are long gone dead

for me Chris, that's just more stuff i don't want to deal with. the last thing i want to do is video or upload / download or collaborate off the internet. i like it when everything happens in the same room at the same time.

what i want to do is get back to a tape based system . 1" 8, 1/2" half track track mix. vinyl. there's a market.

Tape is so expensive.
Radar used to make a 16 track system.

Sorry Kurt but all your explanations for NOT using a computer are moot these days. And I came from tape. I have mac minis in my studio. All of the things you say can happen rarely do if the system is setup. AND....believe it or not, you can isolate it to a single upgrade and stop any further upgrades. I still have my PTHD 10 system in a mac tower. It will never be able to be upgraded. It's at it's limit. But it still works quite well. A person could make high quality recordings on it for the rest of their life if they so desired. You have to look at a DAW like a tape recorder. The plug-ins is another story. Sometimes they become out of date and the company discontinues their use. But buying them stops that. Its usually the hacks that stop working when the updates out distance the system they are installed in.

But with great outboard you just patch what you want to record like you want. You dont HAVE to auto-tune (who would ever use that wonky program??) You don't HAVE to edit but you can. Easily. Your interface determines how many captures you can do at one time. I have 32 in my room. I had 20 with the old rig. It was always enough.

$100 gets you a high quality 4 terrabyte drive to work on. $173 gets you 33 minutes or so @15ips on 1" for a single trip and storage.

Ah well. Maybe you're a perfect client for a UAD Luna system? I've heard one and it's pretty damn amazing sounding. Imagine a whole rack of Helios preamps. And not just added later.......you play through them

Exporting BWAV files from any version of Radar takes minutes.
Either using Ethernet wired directly to your Daw computer..
DVD's, CD's, and or any USB thumb drive.

Because of it's sound, dependability, and ease of use, I ALWAYS track to Radar, do all overdubs to it, and then export to DAW if required to mix.
Most times, because of the music I usually do, I just stay in Radar and Mix on the console.

Now with the new Radar Studio version, you can keep everything insides radar and just open the Daw of your choice right in the machine.

I have a few of those versions also, but haven't used it once!
(one os for sale)

Personally I love the regular Radar, V6 the best.

Kurt Foster, post: 467183, member: 7836 wrote:
yeah but it doesn't do internet and video and video chat and games or have a surreptitious camera running all the time and all the other stuff that home computers are built to do. there's no bloatware or hidden stuff running in the background. it doesn't pick up unwanted cookies and junk from the internet. once you have a system running there aren't any unwanted updates.

since it doesn't use plug ins the user isn't forced into a cycle of upgrades to keep compatible. i know it's a computer but it's a proprietary system that is not open. so it remains stable and is not subject to slowing down as time passes like many computers seem to be designed to do. last it is a product built for professional use. most computers are home appliances.

i love computers. just not for recording. i tried it and i don't like it. there's too much like menus and file directories and freezing channels and delay compensation etc. that doesn't have anything to do with music or the recording process for me to deal with. i distracts me. i don't like how hard it is to record into a mix. for the way i like to work, it doesn't work.

but if i did get a computer for recording i would want something like a Radar. but if others like recording on computers, that's good too. i'm not trying to convince anyone. just answering questions.

At my friend's studio (where he plays bass and I do the engineering), there's a Win 7 machine with Sony Vegas Pro 13 on it that isn't connected to the internet and hasn't been updated in something like six years. I only deal with directories when I'm starting a new project and need to set it to record to a new folder, or when I'm grabbing a project to take with me on a USB drive. Delay compensation is always on and just works. I've never had to freeze channels or anything like that.

What is the problem with the other things a computer does? I do understand the reason people buy reel to reel multitrack - there is something rather attractive with something that moves and makes noises, but Radar, as far as I can tell just mimics the operation of a tape machine.

I cannot remember the last time I did the electronic version of an old fashioned drop in, but the way I do it now is infinitely better. I cannot think of any reason - either than perhaps the audio quality, and frankly, everything has such good audio now, I wouldn't;t even have "good Audi' on my shopping list, because bad audio is so rare now. My computers all run via a network - that links my two sites so I can work anywhere., I can work on three separate computers on the same files, and I'm SOOOO much more productive. Every now and again my computer starts to get full. So will the Radar. The Radar updates over the internet doesn't it? It has a screen - so it's just a computer, dedicated to one job. My computer is still dedicated to audio - it has audio devices and controls fitted to it - but I can look at interesting add-ons, and within minutes be using them.

The Radar system looks interesting but I cannot find any reason that is obvious why I'd want to swap a computer for it? There must be something? I just don't know what it is?

that's all fine an dandy guys but i remain unconvinced. i've recorded with analog tape. i've recorded with digital tape and i've recorded with DAW. i like recording on DAW the least. along with the issues previously mentioned, i don't like how DAWs sound and i don't like / need the capabilities it offers. i don't need / want pitch correction and time shifting. i don't even know what the f spectral editing is but now i'm told i gotta have it! i object to the whole concept of virtual instruments. Last, i don't like mixing on virtual surfaces or itb. i don't like itb summing and i don't think the digital summing "mixers" in an itb system sound as good as even a cheap ass Mackie mixers summing.

tape is no more expensive today than it was in the 70's adjusting for inflation and the last thing i would ever do is purchase anything from Apple. they are the worst with the software upgrade cycles that drive hardware upgrade cycles. it's never ending. i would guess no one here can tell me they are working on an Mac system that is more than 2 years old. that speaks volumes to me.

i've watched guys repeatedly buying expensive software packages to install in expensive new computers that are running the newest expensive os software. they have to do it so they can run the new expensive plug ins that promise they are the closest thing to the thing they are emulating until the next time the software developers come out with the next expensive "closest plug in thing" they gotta have.

or they have to upgrade software to get a feature they never knew they needed until some software developer told them they needed it! I absolutly shut down when someone starts on about all the plugs they used to mix some dreadful piece of drek they produced. yeah, i can hear it. it sucks. i've watched people go through at least 2 or 3 systems in 5 years just so they can use the newest plug ins. for me that's a deal breaker.

i want a 1" 8 track and a couple smallish Yamaha M series mixers, a couple of verbs and a delay, an LA2a clone and a pair of LA 3 clones. that's what i'm shopping for. i can buy tape with all the money i save on buying computers, os systems, software, plug ins, the latest and best converters.

Most of that is resolved with self discipline and basic recording/mixing skills. I use almost exclusively stock and freeware plugins, mostly the same stuff I've been using for a decade.

When I think about all the money I've spent, all the gear I've been blessed to own and use in the last 4 decades, the Studiolive series is by far the best deal going. Its ideal for home studios and musicians that play real instruments whom either want simple tracking or full on production options.
I've done many comparisons and this would be what I would suggest for most musicians with a budget starting at $2995.00. Thats crazy.
And for those who want to keep it simple... Presonus Capture (their simple Tape emulation program) is without question, the coolest Tape emulation tracking program out there.

audiokid, post: 467202, member: 1 wrote:
When I think about all the money I've spent, all the gear I've been blessed to own and use in the last 4 decades, the Studiolive series is by far the best deal going. Its ideal for home studios and musicians that play real instruments whom either want simple tracking or full on production options.
I've done many comparisons and this would be what I would suggest for most musicians with a budget starting at $2995.00. Thats crazy.
And for those who want to keep it simple... Presonus Capture (their simple Tape emulation program) is without question, the coolest Tape emulation tracking program out there.

With my Studio Live 16 Series 3 and a serious professionally made PC and Studio One Pro I have it so much better!!. And with each firmware update they've made the Series 3 even better. Super reliable and sounds great.

just a bit of colour.. IMO RADAR was more than just a daw. It was a recording system designed from the ground up. At one time their ADC converters were quite innovative, because most commercially available products had issues with the anti aliasing filters, Radar seemed to have viable solution. As well there clock seemed to be more immune to jitter, largely because the whole system was designed together. Now a days this advantage is gone, everyone else seems to have caught up. ....

Kurt Foster, post: 467200, member: 7836 wrote:
tape is no more expensive today than it was in the 70's adjusting for inflation and the last thing i would ever do is purchase anything from Apple. they are the worst with the software upgrade cycles that drive hardware upgrade cycles. it's never ending. i would guess no one here can tell me they are working on an Mac system that is more than 2 years old. that speaks volumes to me.

I was NOT advocating for "Apple" or any other computer system. I relating what I use and it's stability and simplicity.

And in case you didn't understand, I was relating to UPGRADE CYCLES in mentioning my older system which even though it can no longer be upgraded, still works perfectly as it has for 10+ years. I WANTED newer gear and to compete in the local area having better stuff goes a long way in the clientele making decisions to spend their money. Which is a conundrum all on it's own. It should be the quality of the work not the layout that sells time. But it still is the layout that sells time! I know three main rooms here with large consoles that rarely if ever turn them on.

Good luck in your search for the gear you want. If you need any help finding things let me know. I know a couple of rooms that have retired recently. Good stuff at each

thanks Dave.