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Reverend Lucas 22 August 2014

... Sort of kidding, but I am looking for honest criticism.

A buddy of mine decided to write a 'stupid acoustic country song' to shop around to local bands. I offered to record him as I figured it would be good tracking/mixing practice.

Instrumentation was pretty basic as he didn't want to spend too much time on it. We tracked his Alvarez acoustic with a pair of Avenson STO2 omnis with one over shoulder and one in front of him aimed towards the bridge, after they compared favorably to an ORTF pair of RODE NT5s. Bass was my Warwick Corvette direct through GoldenAge pre73. Another friend came over to break in the new vocal booth. We ended up using a modded Apex 460 (we tried that and a C214). He didn't want any drums, but I threw in a tambourine in the last chorus for a little spice.

Anyway, There are a couple things I need to fix in the attached mix, but I won't be able to get to it for a bit so I thought I'd post what I have.

Constructive criticism is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Luke

Comments

pcrecord Sat, 08/23/2014 - 05:24

Yes, I'm from Quebec ! :) Altought english is not my first language and I don't understand every posts perfectly, I don't think this is the only reason I don't understand your posts RemyRad. The OP's Location: Fargo, ND.

What are you saying ?
I know very well what a limiter is and it would be my last thing to do on that vocal track. I'd start with a deesser and maybe a bit of compression then automation.. But squash the dynamics and the life out of the vocal with a Limiter : NO !!
Oh, do you mean using the side chain of the limiter to do a deesser ?? Please say so then !

Common Remy, I'm trying to make sens of your posts and sometime they are too long to read and I just ignore them. But this one is short, I understand all the words, but don't get your point. I'm not mad or offended. I'm actually amused that a lady with such experience in the recording world would take time to post on a forum only to write nonsens... Or maybe it's because your from Washington and I should understand :D

dvdhawk Sat, 08/23/2014 - 08:41

For the stated purpose, of demo to shop-around, it's perfect as-is.

Anybody who decides to record it, or perform it, wants to have somewhere to go with it. If you flesh-out every detail, and/or over-produce it, it will end up working against the efforts to sell the song, and waste your time and the songwriter's money.

They (people who buy songs) don't care how glorious YOU can make it. They want room to imagine the glorious things THEY can do with it.

2¢

audiokid Sat, 08/23/2014 - 14:44

I don't know about all you, but I try and target my comment and opinions on the things people can change with what they have and aspire too, if they show signs... When I listen to this track, I could suggest to go out and buy a $15,000 vox chain, that would solve all the issues on the VOX. I often wonder if all of us would stop buying these stupid plug-ins if you only knew how incredible a few products would make your vocals and acoustic tracks sound. It really is all about the Mic, rails on the preamp and a sweet HD converter for me. Those 3 things are everything to me. If you can add an LA2A, its sheer silk on top.
I stopped buying into most plugins for fixing 9 years ago. I took that money and bought one great mic, a Millennia M-2b, LA2A, 1176 and a pristine ADDA (with the exception of one DAW that has it all, if need be). Done.
If I stick to making only real music, I need no more for 20 years.

Any DAW will capture that without a sweat. So, I also don't need to keep upgrading my inexpensive PC and plug-in factory in comparison to the mass using a Mac either. I just keep saving money year after year. Less guessing too.

But, some of us are chipping away at it and using the patching process that falls into plugin play. I do however, toss in something for us all to keep thinking humble and aware that there is better for those who find the thread aspiring to learn a bit more on the journey. Seeding as we go.

Is Remy doing this? I don't know? hehe She certainly keeps us wondering!:eek:

pcrecord , I share your response. Remy goes off on these insult like posts, its her way of writing that I don't think she realizes how distracting it all is. Hoping she stops is a hit and miss.
Passionate writing doesn't always come across the way it is perceived. A wordsmith I am not. I admire those who are. :love:

Nicely said once again Dave!

pcrecord Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:46

audiokid, thanks for your words ;).. I'd understand having posts full of opinions/emotions in a forum called 'Let's just talk'
But there ain't any like this here. Maybe it should be, as we can read that some people, even me sometime, just need to talk. Even if it's not about recording...

When a person asks if he/she can get a mix better and how. I try to help even if I may be wrong. If I make some mistakes and get straiten up, i'm happy cause I know it makes me grow... ;)

audiokid Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:30

pcrecord, post: 418785, member: 46460 wrote: audiokid, thanks for your words ;).. I'd understand having posts full of opinions/emotions in a forum called 'Let's just talk'
But there ain't any like this here. Maybe it should be, as we can read that some people, even me sometime, just need to talk. Even if it's not about recording...

When a person asks if he/she can get a mix better and how. I try to help even if I may be wrong. If I make some mistakes and get straiten up, i'm happy cause I know it makes me grow... ;)

Indeed, you are not alone. Everything I've learned has been through hundreds of mistakes.

anonymous Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:04

audiokid, post: 418786, member: 1 wrote: Indeed, you are not alone. Everything I've learned has been through hundreds of mistakes.

Mistakes are the main motivating factor that makes us all better at what we do. After all, how did we all learn how to not do certain things? Was it because someone told us? Maybe a little, but not so much.
Mostly, it's because we actually made mistakes, and were able to experience and hear first-hand what NOT to do in the future.

They may piss us off initially, and make us smack our heads or pull our hair in frustration... but when that feeling wears off, and we have a chance to think further...there's no better teacher, and no better way to learn.
In terms of educational value, mistakes are pure gold. ;)

IMHO of course.

d/

Reverend Lucas Mon, 08/25/2014 - 14:22

Thanks for the good input, all. I appreciate the specific feedback. It sounds like I’m erring a bit on the side of underprocessing, for fear of squashing dynamics or otherwise destroying musicality. That and clipping. Clipping is bad as I understand it?;) Rookie mistake I’m going to blame on tracking with a new pre before properly putting it through its paces. ‘Client’ didn’t find it necessary to retrack.

Didn’t Donny have a thread recently on bonehead mistakes? It was a good learning experience anyway, and the vocalist wants to record some more tracks with a different project of hers. I’m counting that as a win. More practice, and more (hopefully different) mistakes to be made.

Now, if only my LA2A would show up already…

anonymous Tue, 08/26/2014 - 04:14

dvdhawk, post: 418764, member: 36047 wrote: For the stated purpose, of demo to shop-around, it's perfect as-is.

Anybody who decides to record, or perform, it wants to have somewhere to go with it. If you flesh-out every detail, and/or over-produce it, it will end up working against the efforts to sell the song, and waste your time and the songwriter's money.

They (people who buy songs) don't care how glorious YOU can make it. They want room to imagine the glorious things THEY can do with it.

2¢

Well said, Hawk.

I would add that in many cases, the people who are shopping for songs aren't looking for huge production. Many times, they are looking for finished recordings that are simple in performance and arrangement; that over-produced, wall of sound thing (of which I've certainly been guilty of doing many times) isn't really what many of them are looking for.

Occasionally, I am forced to watch Grey's Anatomy....(my paramedic girlfriend is an addict, LOL), and while I'm not a huge fan of the show, there is some great music - singer/songwriter stuff - that they use in certain scenes, and I'd say that from what I've heard, 80% of the time, the songs are minimally produced - simple guitar/ vocal, piano/vocal, etc.

Some of the best songs in history were the most simply recorded, with minimal production. The Beatles' Blackbird and Yesterday, The Stone's Wild Horses, James Taylor's version of Carol King's You've Got A Friend, Sarah McLauchlan's I Will Remember You. Of a more current nature, Adel - Someone Like You, Jason Mraz - I'm Yours, Plain White T's - Hey There Delilah.

There's no rule that says that a great song has to have 24 tracks of whatever (or 16, or even 8 for that matter) weighted down with effects.

Sometimes the most simple ones are the best. ;)

IMHO of course.

d/

anonymous Tue, 08/26/2014 - 04:24

Reverend Lucas, post: 418843, member: 48050 wrote:

Didn’t Donny have a thread recently on bonehead mistakes?

Why yes... yes he did. But that was a mistake that should have never been made, considering his years of experience in this craft. It was bush league. There was no learning value in it for him, because he should have known better to begin with. LOL

There's a huge difference in the idiotic faux pas that I made - and mistakes made by someone like yourself who is newer to the craft, and learning new things.
The mistakes you are making now are to be expected, and serve as great learning tools for the future. We all made them at some point in our earlier years. Making those mistakes - ad learning from them - are how we got better at what we do.

My latest, however, was nothing more than an exercise in the moronic - made by someone who should have known better to begin with.. ;)

d/

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