lots of this stuff is already available ... has been for years. i think there's way too much of it for my taste.

i hate the whole one man band , "producer" in a room who puts together loops, then plays bass, lays down some midi pads .. maybe a guitar overdub ... it sucks!

my favorite recordings were all done with real live musicians gathered in one great room working out an arraignment together as a group effort ... it really is a case of the more the merrier. the more cooks, the better the broth.

even power trippers like Phil Spector understood this ... i hate the whole "i play everything myself" bit ... power freak individuals who want to control every facet of a recording ... a lot of these guys don't play well with other kids.

this kind of stuff is what has ruined music ... it started with drum machines and moved on to commercially available midi loops and the on to sample loops and "real drums" loops ... barf!

give a drummer a break ... they're people too no matter what we think of them. duh they need to work just like everyone else.

Kurt's right... they've been around for years. back in the late 70's and early 80's there was a series of albums/tapes put out called "Drum Drops", by a drummer named Mike Kreiger. He recorded set-pattern stuff: ballad, disco, rock, etc. It was generally set up in an I/V/C/V/C/C pattern, but plenty of songwriters found them useful for demos, although I know of no one whoever actually released an album using them.

Pre recorded samples and midi based loops can be helpful in the same way, as a demo tool, I've used them for pre production stuff, putting ideas together at 3 in the morning... but when it comes down to doing it for real, I get real musicians to join me.

The other risk in using these pre-recorded loops in your recordings is that sooner or later you're gonna end up doing what someone else did, using the same recognizable pattern, and it might de-legitimize your work, depending on who is listening.

fwiw
-d.

edit: survey filled out.

*in my best Jamaican accent* [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.betamonk…"]Beta Monkey Music[/]="http://www.betamonk…"]Beta Monkey Music[/].......maan.

I must confess that I'm one of those solo dudes. I do play with some other guys but none of them like my music. LOL. Can't blame them. I guess I'll be stuck playing Neil Young covers for the rest of my life. Nothing against Neil but, hey hey, my my, I get a little sick of the needle and the damage done after a while.

hueseph, post: 403329 wrote: *in my best Jamaican accent* [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.betamonk…"]Beta Monkey Music[/]="http://www.betamonk…"]Beta Monkey Music[/].......maan.

I must confess that I'm one of those solo dudes. I do play with some other guys but none of them like my music. LOL. Can't blame them. I guess I'll be stuck playing Neil Young covers for the rest of my life. Nothing against Neil but, hey hey, my my, I get a little sick of the needle and the damage done after a while.

yeah but wouldn't you prefer to work with a real band if you could? i've done lots of recordings with a drum machine ... because i didn't have access to a good drummer at the time ... and i've also over dubbed all the parts on top of that only because i didn't have access to good players at the moment ... but still if i can get a group of good players in a room at one time ... well then i'm a happy camper.

"TEST-TEST ... Can you hear me? This is for Mr Jerry Kennedy ... We're here in my living room because we've been told we get a good sound in here"....

It's infinitely better with real musicians. I rarely meet ones who like the same music I do. Sometimes that's good. I can't be all that creative by myself. I'm a lousy drummer and a mediocre bassist. And, the energy you get from a like minded musician can really spark ingenuity.

Drum Loops !! OMG, the drummer in me has gag reflex when I think of them !! facepalm

If I could be objective (which I can't), I'd say Loops are good for DJ, Hip Hop and Rap.
BTW, I did record some loops for a rap guy once. Sat down on an electronic drum and played the midi through a drum sampler(vsti). He was so impress with the dynamics in my playing. He said, he never heard something similar with commercial loops. (it was years ago)

Today nearly all Drum Vsti have midi lines you can import in your DAW and modify at will, doubt I'll ever use a loop. (Addictive Drums is my favorite)

For me, as a home recording geek/enthusiast, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of purchasing acoustic drum loops and putting them to use in songs where I need drums.

Kurt is as eloquently insulting as usual. Nice to see you haven't changed a bit over the years Kurt. You've got a really bad attitude man, and there are probably few people who care what you personally prefer. Why you still think the world should care about what you personally prefer or do not prefer just baffles me. Enough said about that I guess.

Anyway, to the OP, as others have found success creating and selling drum loops, why shouldn't you enjoy some success being in the same game? Even Mick Fleetwood has a dog in that game. A number of extraordinary drummers have made a little money doing it. Why not you?

I would love to see a cafeteria-style service where I could audition all the loops and create a custom package to purchase based on my personal needs at the time of production.

I do also collaborate with drummers in other areas of the country and fun with that, but don't always have the time for it. I can also testify that being involved with other drummers for a project can be disappointing when I'm hot on a project and the drummer who agreed to participate is dragging his feet. Drum loops help me get it on right then when I'm ready. A drum loop never makes excuses why he's days or weeks late getting around to tracking for my project. In other words, people can be entirely unreliable; perfectly recorded acoustic drum loops...not so much, LOL.

CoyoteTrax, post: 403463 wrote: For me, as a home recording geek/enthusiast, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of purchasing acoustic drum loops and putting them to use in songs where I need drums.

Kurt is as eloquently insulting as usual. Nice to see you haven't changed a bit over the years Kurt. You've got a really bad attitude man, and there are probably few people who care what you personally prefer. Why you still think the world should care about what you personally prefer or do not prefer just baffles me. Enough said about that I guess.

LOL !!

well that was pretty insulting in itself and i guess you cared enough to feel inclined to comment. btw, i don't care what you think either in this case.

everyone is entitled to their opinion and i have mine. my guess is you were never in the studio business professionally otherwise you might have an understanding of the "bad attitude" a lot of people (myself included) about these "tools" that make it possible for people to not go to a real studio to record.

perhaps you can't get a real drummer to come over to your house because you won't pay them? if i'm a little to real for you that's ok with me.diddlydoo

Back in the day, we used to make our own drum loops. Sometimes bands would come in with a drum set but no drummer. One of the guitar guys would try to do just a bass drum snare drum thing. We go back and they would fill in and overdub tom-tom rolls, cymbal crashes. We would mix and process that to a stereo track on 1/4 inch tape. We would splice things together until we got a good loop. We would then thread the recorder with this loop of tape and dangle an empty plastic take-up reel to provide tension across the heads. This worked out quite well. By 1996... I was looping with Cool Edit. Other folks just brought in drum machines that we would take the multi-track outputs from to the multi-track recorder. We would then handle that as we would any drum mixing.

So I'm not really quite sure how much of a market you will be able to financially benefit from? There really isn't anything different between a drum pattern loop and that of sampled drums in a loop, coming from a drum machine or samples in software. But just like anything else... there will be those that will want your loops. Are you going to get rich? Probably not. But you never know?

Toni Meister

Toni Meister, post: 403472 wrote: Back in the day, we used to make our own drum loops. Sometimes bands would come in with a drum set but no drummer. One of the guitar guys would try to do just a bass drum snare drum thing. We go back and they would fill in and overdub tom-tom rolls, cymbal crashes. We would mix and process that to a stereo track on 1/4 inch tape. We would splice things together until we got a good loop. We would then thread the recorder with this loop of tape and dangle an empty plastic take-up reel to provide tension across the heads. This worked out quite well. By 1996... I was looping with Cool Edit. Other folks just brought in drum machines that we would take the multi-track outputs from to the multi-track recorder. We would then handle that as we would any drum mixing.

So I'm not really quite sure how much of a market you will be able to financially benefit from? There really isn't anything different between a drum pattern loop and that of sampled drums in a loop, coming from a drum machine or samples in software. But just like anything else... there will be those that will want your loops. Are you going to get rich? Probably not. But you never know?

Toni Meister

And I don't know if it's so much about getting rich as it is about just simply doing something positively creative that you enjoy doing, then see what happens. Nothing wrong with that. So many people have ides but never put the time or energy into making them reality. Personally I haven't been recording since the 90's to get rich or achieve fame. I do it because I'm a singer/songwriter and love to record my musical ideas and share them via recordings. Drum loops help me make it all happen from time to time, as not all of my music calls for a drum kit.

Props to the OP for getting off his arse to actually manifest his idea.

So many people have ides but never put the time or energy into making them reality. Personally I haven't been recording since the 90's to get rich or achieve fame.

congratulations, you have achieved you goal ...

I do it because I'm a singer/songwriter and love to record my musical ideas and share them via recordings. I do it because I'm a singer/songwriter and love to record my musical ideas and share them via recordings.

the whole idea of self recording is to share your recordings. i would love to hear some of yours 'yote ...

i've used loops ... but the ones i've used were ones i created with drum machines ... and i would still rather just sit down with a good drummer and one mic and record that instead ... loops suck. any one can cut and paste.

For me its never been about trying to pretend to sound real when samples fit better or just the opposite. I try never to push my era into anything. The musical content and language should tell you what it needs. Nothing more goofy than hearing the wrong sound or sonic footprint in a song that doesn't fit. Same as singing. You can sing a phase many ways but there is usually only a few ways it actually sounds right. This is where I have a problem with Opera Singers singing pop music. I mean, puke.

But who's to say it fits or doesn't? Who is our audience or what is the song all all about? That is the first thing I'd be asking or making very clear. Opinions mean nothing if we don't know what you are shooting for.

Its all good if its in the right contents.

recording is all about opinions / decisions. the art form is critical by nature. and if you can't take being criticized, you are in the wrong vocation. the road to success is paved with failure and rejection (criticism / opinions).

if you have no opinion, how can you make a decision? does that sound right? what tool (pre , reverb, compressor/ gate, plug, recording medium, studio musician, instrument i/e piano, sax, guitar /strat, tele, less paul, acoustic?) do we employ?

critical thinking ... logic applied. all opinions. some opinions are based on experience and some are based on other things .... you get to choose which to pay attention to ... again another opinion. every time you make a choice.

Kurt Foster, post: 403528 wrote: congratulations, you have achieved you goal ...

the whole idea of self recording is to share your recordings. i would love to hear some of yours 'yote ...

i've used loops ... but the ones i've used were ones i created with drum machines ... and i would still rather just sit down with a good drummer and one mic and record that instead ... loops suck. any one can cut and paste.

Sure man, I have a bunch of stuff here: [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.soundcli…"]SoundClick artist: Ken Lusk - Acoustic Music and Folk Rock with some Americana type arrangements here and there.[/]="http://www.soundcli…"]SoundClick artist: Ken Lusk - Acoustic Music and Folk Rock with some Americana type arrangements here and there.[/]

Knock yourself out.

I especially like the drums in "Holy Night Part II". YMMV

thanks for sharing. yeah those drums sound pretty good. my sr 16 sounds good too ...

[="https://soundcloud…"]https://soundcloud…

[/][MEDIA=soundcloud]user418315800/little-one

but these drums sound much better ...

[MEDIA=soundcloud]user418315800/northern-night

CoyoteTrax, post: 403547 wrote: I especially like the drums in "Holy Night Part II". YMMV

It sounds too roomy for me and lacks some dynamic and human feel. And that nice drum fill ending with no cymbals at 3/4 of the song? Well...
But hey, I'M A DRUMMER. A real one ! hey hey hey :wink:
Samples and Loops? I guess it all depends how you use them and if you can achieve some statement ; creative and/or natural.

Not everybody can live in a band or meet the right people to fit their goals. I understand, one has to make compromise, when no drummer's available and/or you don't have the money to hire one. Or no money to rent a studio with a proper drum recording room. There's nothing wrong with doing what we can to express ourself and deal with what we have and can buy. Loops might have helped many musicians to show their work and be discovered. But as much as Loops CAN be great, It'll never replace a professional musician. If you don't play an instrument, you'll have no clue how a real person could react, understand, feel your music and create a authentic track made with his/her heart, his/her bounding feelings and the sum of his/her experiences. Present your music to a stranger and let him feel it and record his part. Enjoy the unexpected and trust your music to go to places you thought it never could..

My God, am I inspired this morning !!!

pcrecord, post: 403575 wrote: It sounds too roomy for me and lacks some dynamic and human feel. And that nice drum fill ending with no cymbals at 3/4 of the song? Well...
But hey, I'M A DRUMMER. A real one ! hey hey hey :wink:
Samples and Loops? I guess it all depends how you use them and if you can achieve some statement ; creative and/or natural.

Not everybody can live in a band or meet the right people to fit their goals. I understand, one has to make compromise, when no drummer's available and/or you don't have the money to hire one. Or no money to rent a studio with a proper drum recording room. There's nothing wrong with doing what we can to express ourself and deal with what we have and can buy. Loops might have helped many musicians to show their work and be discovered. But as much as Loops CAN be great, It'll never replace a professional musician. If you don't play an instrument, you'll have no clue how a real person could react, understand, feel your music and create a authentic track made with his/her heart, his/her bounding feelings and the sum of his/her experiences. Present your music to a stranger and let him feel it and record his part. Enjoy the unexpected and trust your music to go to places you thought it never could..

My God, am I inspired this morning !!!

You are inspired, and it always feels good to be inspired. And I love live drums, I really do. I don't like drum machines and don't go for the sound of programmed drums. I did the band scene for several years and as I grew into other hobbies, interests, and areas of disciplined study I found less and less time for a band. Let's just say I realigned myself with a different focus in mind. I chose to give up spending so much discretionary energy on seeking validation from other's. But that means when I have the time to record my musical ideas I need an alternative to a live drummer. So it's true, ideally I'd love to have a real drummer at my beck and call at 11pm or 2am but it's not reasonable. Nor would my neighbors appreciate a live kit getting hammered at such hours, my HOA would definitely get a lot of complaints over that. So acoustic drum loops recorded by a real drummer are a luxury that helps me get my groove on.

And you also proved one of my points (and perhaps you'll agree with this); the drums sound exactly how I want them to sound, including the "room". I've recorded in enough studios to know what a good drum booth sounds like, and sometimes that dry up-front dead room sound is great for certain material. The drums on Back In Black come to mind. But I love the sound of a bigger room with some reflections going on, that's just me. So I take the time to craft a room sound using multiple Aux channels, EQ filtering, compression, and reverb to create a hand crafted (or digitally crafted) multi-comp excited compression thing. Kind like what they did in the Motown days. And that's fun for me too.

I craft the drums first, then track all the other instruments to the drums. I can't stand click tracks.

Some people love how it sounds and some people ( like yourself) don't. And that's life. The point is, I get to do it my way on my own schedule and at my leisure, so it's all good. I think that why so many people patronize the drum loop industry.

Well, I love it all! If its done well that is.

But those looped drums could sound a lot better. The mix and lack of knowledge on programming shows. Plain and simple.

Nothing more awesome sounding than sampled drums mixed well in the appropriate music.
Nothing more awesome sounding than real drums mixed and performed well in the appropriate music.

Nothing worse sounding than bad sounding real or digital drums. And FWIW, most drums I hear today don't stack up to well programed or well looped drums in certain styles of music. But then, what type of music are we all talking about anyway?

Nothing better than listening to a great live band.
Nothing better than playing with a live band.
Nothing worse sounding than a drummer playing so loud you can't mix a thing or hear what's going on beside you.
Nothing worse than a drummer who can't play simple. Most of the time in commercial recordings, simple is all you need.
Nothing worse sounding than a crappy room with a live drummer. And how many crappy rooms are there? Some people love real drums so much, they overlook the sound and simply appreciate the performance. So it becomes a matter of taste. Some people love Grunge and distorted converters. In fact, if you don't have that distortion and massive bleed, it doesn't even attract their attention.

Again, what type of music are we all talking about anyway?

I love acoustic music and wish I could record and mix it more. I miss the old days more than ever but I've never for a moment stopped appreciating something done well.

audiokid, post: 0 wrote: Well, I love it all! If its done well that is.

But those looped drums could sound a lot better. The mix and lack of knowledge on programming shows. Plain and simple.

Nothing more awesome sounding than sampled drums mixed well in the appropriate music.
Nothing more awesome sounding than real drums mixed and performed well in the appropriate music.

Nothing worse sounding than bad sounding real or digital drums. And FWIW, most drums I hear today don't stack up to well programed or well looped drums in certain styles of music. But then, what type of music are we all talking about anyway?

Nothing better than listening to a great live band. Nothing better than playing with a live band.
Nothing worse sounding than a drummer playing so loud you can't mix a thing or hear what's going on beside you.
Nothing worse than a drummer who can't play simple. Most of the time in commercial recordings, simple is all you need.
Nothing worse sounding than a crappy room with a live drummer.

Again, what type of music are we all talking about anyway?

I love acoustic music and wish I could record and mix it more. I miss the old days but I've never for a moment stopped appreciating something done well.

Which looped drums are you referring to? Which link above are you commenting on audiokid?

I'd rather keep my opinion on this directed to the fact that if something is done well, and fits the style it shouldn't matter what you use or do to get it there. Music is art.

So many people get hung up on their generation and get really opinionated over it all. They also have short careers and stuffy friends.

Having gone through 2 decades of touring on the road, and I mean 6 nights a week playing everything from top 40 night clubs to biker bars, followed by having my own children that love their generation of music today, you either get it or you don't.

I'd also like to mention, we usually only hear the bad comments and very seldom hear from people whom have experienced excellence in the electronic world around here. I mean, this is a "recording" community so the bias is going to be this. But for those that know different, no different lol.

I know for a fact that I have programed drums that fooled Grammy Award engineers from the 70's. But thats because I know what I'm doing and put the time in to do it. Maybe that was because I am a real musician first and know what it sounds like. The work involved to program well is massive so the bottom line is: Its a hell of a lot easier and fun to have a real drummer but they are few and far between and most rooms sound like crap to me.
But, there is nothing more wonderful sounding than a real band that plays well together. I love playing my guitar.

But for some styles of music, and especially for writing, you can't beat a DAW and VSTi.
And I stand behind this. I will replace or blend in some sort of electronic sample in pop music. (IF) that's what gives you that sound.

CoyoteTrax, post: 403620 wrote: And you also proved one of my points (and perhaps you'll agree with this); the drums sound exactly how I want them to sound, including the "room". I've recorded in enough studios to know what a good drum booth sounds like, and sometimes that dry up-front dead room sound is great for certain material. The drums on Back In Black come to mind. But I love the sound of a bigger room with some reflections going on, that's just me. So I take the time to craft a room sound using multiple Aux channels, EQ filtering, compression, and reverb to create a hand crafted (or digitally crafted) multi-comp excited compression thing. Kind like what they did in the Motown days. And that's fun for me too.

I can't agree more, tastes can't be judge. When I record on my acoustic drum, I take time to tune it well and place the mics carefully. On the mix time, I often only use some EQs and a bit of reverb on snare and toms. That's it ! When I mix I try to fix problems (if any). I rarely use effects to create or transform the acoustic sounds of the instruments. But hey I totally understand and respect your approach. I merely stated my taste because the op asked about the possibility to put out some new loops on the market.

Returning to that, how amazing would it be if a loop program or a vst could know your song (using markers) and anticipate the changes from the different parts of the song. If it would know that the chorus is to be played with more energy. If it would know when to put a random fill or pickup phrases... An AI vst !! THats what I want pay for !! smoke

most drum machines use sound samples .. real drum hits recorded in studios and really not much different than loops other than it's played back by a computer in perfect time. they sound more the same to each other than not. i don't see how it can be said one is any better than the other. imo they both kinda suck. these tools are perfect for a songwriter to put down ideas to communicate to others the song or to produce demos for publishers / managers etc and in some cases i can see these demos reaching the listening audience. but real players is way better.

there's magic in putting several people (and a drummer :tongue:) in one room and hitting record. sound travels "in dry air at 20 °C (68 °F), the speed of sound is 343.2 metre per second (1,126 ft/s)". that means when people are all playing together in a room there's latency (DELAY) between what the musicians are all hearing from each other. how this all meshes together where everyone finds the groove is a mystery. it's magic.

loops are at the speed of light .. instant. no magic and no groove. then there's the issues of you craft a song using loops that everyone else has access to .. so you hear your drum parts on other peoples records ... limp and not creative. no more than pasting up a collage from the sunday paper. a monkey can plug in a patch cord and hit play.

the best musicians know that playing with other musicians is the best way to make music. collaboration always produces a sum greater than the parts. but of course to get others to work on something requires they respect you and appreciate your efforts and playing. many people who sequester themselves in a room by themselves to record do so out of necessity rather than a way to do it all themselves. after all the excuses are made, i guess it all comes down to whether you play well with the other kids or you don't.

the propensity of the industry to succumb to records produced by one man band producers has more to do with economics than anything else. these recordings all come in at a much lower cost than booking a big studio and filling it with top notch players, producers, engineers and arrangers or a real kick ass band. and it sounds like ass which is why the business is in such a sorry state currently. i still have hope the recording business will pull it's head out of it's collective ass someday.

i will add there's an art to recording drums and acoustic instruments. you have to use mics, pre amps, eqs, reverbs, live rooms and line amps all which takes skill. to record a loop you cut and paste it out of a sound file ... how gratifying ( please detect disdain). it's real or it's not. i like real. last i would say if you have to use loops or drum machines, it is helpful if you have a working knowledge of how drums are played .. where to put what , an idea of how to build dynamics. sadly this is rare.

Attached files

Kurt Foster, post: 403639 wrote:

the best musicians know that playing with other musicians is the best way to make music.

No disrespect but this is a very elitist statement. It also sounds like you have an opinion on what you call music.

If I ever played my guitar for you, you would likely be amazed. But I know where it belongs in a track. I mean, I don't play my guitar to impress anyone, I play it when it belongs /fits and I don't care if I get paid. But I will say I've been paid a lot to play it.
Same as a solo, ya I can play a solo but sometimes a simple on time bar chord is all ya need. Which could easily be looped and you would never know.

But we're talking about recording right? How does art have anything to do with economics or what I have evolved with and how I shape my music?

And a kick drum, come on man. It ain't rocket science here. You are giving pop drums way too much glory and importance, IMPO. Its a beat when it comes to most pop music. The crowd knows no different in the world of playback.

Because I love the sound of digital drums and make use of samples, does this take me out of the best circle of musicians now? Funny thing is, I'm still working professionally and loving everything from vintage hardware to drum machines. I don't get the segregation at all. Its takes brains, talent and passion to do what I do, too.

Art = an expression or application of human creative skill and imagination.
Rhythm = A strong, regular, repeated pattern of movement or sound.
Music = The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion

Chris,
i don't mean that to sound elitist at all. in fact it would occur to me that sequestering ones self off alone and not playing with others could be construed as elitist. .. i just like social interaction and people especially when it comes to playing music.

i think you are limited by your location more than anything ... i would bet you would be playing more with others if you had access to more people.

and if you like the sound of digital drums well what can i say? to each his own but i don't agree . i think acoustic drums, well recorded are a wonderful thing ... hell acoustic drums poorly recorded are pretty cool too. i like drums ... now drummers? they are different animal. i had to smile when someone mentioned their drummer was in jail, not that it's funny but i myself have been in the same predicament.

i had a session set up to record a song for this guy who wanted a karaoke track and the drummer (my best friend John Earp) was MIA for 3 days ... turns out he went to Reno with some flooozie .. anyhow in the interim i recorded a game show called "Do you want to be an assh*le?" and i had John as the contestant .. we all work though these things in different ways i guess.

No worries Kurt, I'm just chiming in on it all too.

I often don't want to play with others, especially drummers with bad timing and bad attitudes.. I'm a composer man, and other things too. Like it or not, this is all wonderful technology that has moved into the recording industry for many reasons beyond budget and lack of.

I can't help but say, this is another thread full of narrow minds. I consider myself a very accomplished musician that just can't get enough of it all. Man, if i could walk away and just write, never worry about money. Nothing more satisfying to me than making music and then listening to what came out of me. I don't need people or even praise. I love music and the isolation just as much as I love the main stage. Its all good. I'm making music because I just can't stop. If I had to wait for every musician to show up, I would never be where I am today.

The day I discovered electronics was the day I found my calling.

Close your eyes and imagine being able to compose music in a little cabin in the woods. No need to worry about bills or people telling you what you should be doing with your life. Just make music that lives inside your heart, listen back to it and move onto the next song. Chapter after chapter.
This technology is like magic to me. Don't get so caught up on one sound or one way to do it. 100 years from now, we might be physically connected to a computer to a point we think and it plays. I might not like it because my mental talent is directly linked to physical ability of fingers to make music, but the driving force is my mind. I don't know how you could become so narrow minded in a world so full of electronics already.
Wow I say. Its all amazing to me.
I'm not listening for a 24ft ceiling and how some guy mic'd something in every song. Who cares if its a sample and part of this generation. If it sounds good, I like it it. If it doesn't, maybe we can fix it with a sample.
I seriously don't think you guys know what good samples sound like in a mix. you shouldn't notice this.

It shouldn't matter if I'm listening to what one man is doing or 20, it makes no difference to me how many men it takes to make a song. Its sort of like a painting to me. Does every painting need to have 5 people painting it or can one artist be a Rembrandt>?

I think the mass here is so far off the mark.

To me, this is an example of what I would call music using samples. Listen to a few of these. I don't frown on it. I don't think Christopher Stone is any less a musician. I am in fact amazed and hear the love of music spewing out of him.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.audioimp…"]Demos - Audio Impressions, Inc.[/]="http://www.audioimp…"]Demos - Audio Impressions, Inc.[/]

You think people use electronics because they have no choice! Or that I would do better in some polluted metropolitan city. Man, you couldn't pay me enough to do that. I do at times miss the action, and I do admit I would love to have a big studio but at the end of the day, nature and my simple mixing system just for myself, is all I need. I love the ability to make music all by myself. I love it. And I love programmed music as much as I love Santana or a beautiful string quartet

Please don't turn this into me. I'm simply defending the electronic world. Its a great place to discover and have under your belt! And its growing...

CoyoteTrax, post: 403547 wrote: Sure man, I have a bunch of stuff here: [="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=117445"]SoundClick artist: Ken Lusk - Acoustic Music and Folk Rock with some Americana type arrangements here and there.[/]="http://www.soundcli…"]SoundClick artist: Ken Lusk - Acoustic Music and Folk Rock with some Americana type arrangements here and there.[/]

Knock yourself out.

I especially like the drums in "Holy Night Part II". YMMV

If you like it, great... that's what matters most. :)

A few folks here don't care for it and have said so, so I'm not going to nitpick over the drums, but generally I would say that the amount of "room" on the drums doesn't match the rest of the recording, so (IMO) the drums don't blend well with the rest of the recording. It's not how I would have mixed it, but if you're happy with it, cool... it's your art.

Back to the topic, if the OP is looking for for suggestions, what I would like to see are multi-track drum loops. What I don't like about drum loops is that I can't change the drum sounds or mix. So I would love multi-track loops that would allow me to create my drum sounds and mix. Now, I would imagine that the logistics of creating, or even using, multi-track loops would be difficult, but I think there are plenty of folks who could use them.

To me, this is an example of what I would call music using samples. Listen to a few of these. I don't frown on it. I don't think Christopher Stone is any less a musician. I am in fact amazed and hear the love of music spewing out of him.

[[url=http://="http://www.audioimp…"]Demos - Audio Impressions, Inc.[/]="http://www.audioimp…"]Demos - Audio Impressions, Inc.[/]

Wow! I watched several of the videos - pretty amazing! thumb

Glad you appreciated that. I have this program here but it is really buggy so I've shelved it.

If something is sticking out like a sore thumb, if you are noticing the sample or the programing of any drum, including anything at all in a mix, this is because it wasn't done well in the first place. If a tone or timing of something is standing out as bad, weird, out of place, its clearly because it was intended or its the wrong sound for the song. Plain and simple to me.

Great programming and mixing, real, loop or sample should never be something you notice as wrong or out of place. smoke