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anonymous 10 July 2001

. where the mixes don't boom when I go somewhere else and hit play.

Every day I keep learning more and more that the room is almost everything. I must be sitting in a null. My masters come out sounding good in the room. I'll play them in the car and they sound great above 100Hz, below that I have a load of subs from the Kick & Bass. Bass boomy car stereo owners might love 'em. I know the monitors will reproduce the lows but the room is killing them. :mad: I'll move things around and when there's time & $ I'll work on acoustic treatment.

Comments

anonymous Tue, 07/10/2001 - 13:52

Yuri,

You are 100% correct, the room is sooooo important. My mastering room is about 25x30 with 12 foot ceilings. My old one (in my house) had 8 foot ceilings and was much smaller. FWIW, I always listen to mixes on cans as well. Not so much for major EQ stuff, but to check to see if I need to take a closer listen to any certain thing. The ones I use are Senn 580s (love 'em , I can wear them for hours) and a custom pair of Staxx cans (harder on the ears, but more detail). I *always* do this when I mix as I mix quietly and might miss something really hidden. BTW, what monitors are you using??

anonymous Wed, 07/11/2001 - 05:01

I'm using a pair of custom made speakers that my partner picked up. The design is similar to KEF and Dynaudio. Three feet high rear ported with a pair of 8 in. drivers mounted vertically with the tweeter in between. I also have a pair of 10 in. concentric Tannoy's (can't recall the model # right now) and a pair of Yorkville YSM-1s. I notice that if I walk into an adjacent area I can hear the low end. So I'm going to start with placement changes to get farther away from the montors so the long waves get a chance to propagate along the length of the room.

anonymous Wed, 07/11/2001 - 15:27

Another thing Yuri, alot of people have had the same problem, including myself.

Even if your room was perfect, you would still need to learn it and your monitors. Some people actually do go into another room and listen for the real low end, hear what it sounds like in the hallway.

It's alot of trial and error. Listen to some of your favorite commercial releases and compare your kick drum sound to that. Thin out or roll off some of the low end.
Same thing with bass.
It's not easy, it's always a challange. And sometimes you can never really know for sure until the car or home stereo test. That well help steer you in the right direction.

I remember some engineers in a major facility in my area relate a story of a mix they were working on in their "perfect" room.
They spent a good bit of time on it only to find out when one of them took it home it blew out his woffers in his home stereo. Way to much low end.

So it's not all about the room, it's you knowing how it responds.

anonymous Wed, 07/11/2001 - 18:15

Well most of us are not as fortunate as you Brad to have an absolutly perfect room. The studio I mentioned was a major commercial facility designed by acoustic engineers who have built studios all over the country. The room was as good as they get.

My point is that you can learn a room and get good results even with flaws. And you can also have a perfect room and make mistakes. I've heard quite a few badly mixed, bad sounding albums that were done in great rooms.

audiowkstation Wed, 07/11/2001 - 20:54

Yuri....Your mix is supposed to be an example of the sound set "flat" on a typical system.

If you are acustomed to listening to music on typical systems (decent ones) with the EQ at flat...then you get the idea. You must master considering that folks are going to noch up the bass and highs...in a smiley face curve. Consumer systems are built (some of the cheap ones) with a smiley face eq built in when set flat...especially Sony's cheap systems...*(receivers and speakers) so they will sell. Learn the translation. Not necessarly the room. My Yamaha NS1000Ms in a 17X20 foot room on the long wall centered 7 feet apart when mastering...if the bass is audible at all on the loud average passages...it is in the groove...IF it sounds "conmsumer"...then their is way too much bottom...as the output is considered FLAT from the pre out to the amps. I would never use house eq or a curve on post (between amp and preamp) to compensate as this ruins phase and dynamic integrety.

Learn what you have. I have done excellent work on NS10's and we know they are 10dB down on bottom from consumer speakers typically...because I knew this...I never tried to make them sound "right"...you would be "out of the box" on bottom if you did...listen for blend...the mids should ride above the foundation (Vox mids) and the sustained mids should almost drowned out the bass. In mastering (during loud mid passages) it is common to bump the bottom up a shade to fill in the gaps...but know your translation...you will be glad you did.

The NS1000M's can hit a bone shaking 30HZ. IT still has to sound as a system should sound set flat...leave room for the tweakers in consumer audio to have room to turn up their bass...unless you are working strictly an audiophile recording. Mainstreme productions simply leave room for consumer eq. It is that simple.

Email Me if you want to get deeper into this..

Don't assume what you here will translate until you have tested it and have it firmly remembered in your brain.

Jon Best Thu, 07/12/2001 - 06:04

I kind of think I know what you mean, but I think it's for another purpose- a lot of albums out there (mostly not the best sounding, IMO), do have some bottom shaved off, but it's not necessarily to adjust for consumer EQ- it's because the more pesky bottom end you shave, the louder you can get a CD without as much compressor/limiter pumping. Now, whether this is worthwhile is another story....

Originally posted by Brad Blackwood:

What does this mean?

Mainstream productions simply try to make the product sound as good as possible. Knowing you monitors/room allow you to make the decisions that will allow it to translate well on *most* real world systems, but no one I've ever worked with or know left "room for consumer eq"...

anonymous Sat, 07/28/2001 - 02:34

Low end rolloff?

A professional engineer told me to roll off everthing below 150Hz.... Bad idea?

I'm sure all of your workstations would make mine look laffable and I'm just now getting over the "edge" in my post-prod/mixing abilities.
Maybe "out of the mouth of babes" mebbie not.But, I try to acclimate my ears to my room by listening to a commercial CD that is in the same genre as the project I'm working on.

I have a cheap ($200) Fostex unit with a powered sub.... And can adjust the bass trim to my liking. So far, my mixes are coming along nicely. Still trying to figure out this Mastering thing, tho :p

Michael Campbell
AX/VA/USA

Rog Sat, 07/28/2001 - 08:14

Someone posted that Owens Corning make some absorbant panels you can buy at hardware stores. They don't seem to be readily available in the UK though - can anyone recommend an alternative available over here?

I have 10 ft ceilings (yay!) but the rooms are roughly square with wooden floors (not yay!)

:D

anonymous Mon, 07/30/2001 - 07:34

The Owners Corning product that is commonly used is known as '703'. It is a compressed fiberglass product with high density. It is not available through most home stores. Normally you need to talk with an insulation supply house to obtain this material. Other manufacturers make a similar product. Locate an insulation supply shop and ask about it and they should be able to get it for you. Comes in various thicknesses as well. I generally use 2" but may use 4" for problem bass areas (obviously the thicknesses are U.S. based and subject to change)

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