Hey Ray! You've experienced a typical problem with most console designs. Even good ones like the Yamaha's. What you have done & heard is the overloaded result of poor gain staging, level setting. Nothing wrong with the Yamaha's, only your technique. What Mackie did was to design his microphone preamp so that you actually can't overload it. Plus, he knew guys like you may not set levels correctly. So he designed the different amplifier sections, within the mixer, to offer less susceptibility to typical overload. Another reason why they became so popular amongst so many musicians who weren't exactly real engineers. They were musicians. And we all like to see those meters banging away with good sound. After all, many of us used to slam those meters on our analog recorders. Something you can't get away with in digital. Digital doesn't overload nicely. In fact it's quite awful.

Basically, I've never used a console yet that provided me with terrible sound. Even if they were terrible consoles. This only comes from experience. The more, the merrier. So, the criteria for choosing consoles is like choosing underwear. It's got to fit right. Feel right. Never mind about the specifications as quality has improved substantially in recent years. I've chosen consoles simply based on what features were needed. Any console in competent hands will do a professional job. I own some consoles now that I really love the sound of. They are actually very limited in their features. That doesn't stop a good mix. It shouldn't stop you either.

Roll it. Smoke it.
Ms. Remy Ann David

It's confusing picking mixers... my whole life i assumed mackie's were good. Then again, assuming things has always gotten me in trouble. About 3 months ago, our main output fader went to crap... Today, we have a guy coming to class today to take apart our mackie 32x8 console and tell us why its crap. I'm interested...

Don't you know that everything that is surfacemount is crap?? It's disposable. That's why they designed it that way. It's not supposed to be repaired. It's supposed to be replaced. How else are they supposed to stay in business if you only buy one? And besides, all of the old ladies that used to stick all of the parts on the circuit boards have all died. So they have to get a Chinese robot or, slave children to do it. I mean what's the matter with CO2?? Plants like it. We're making less so the Chinese can make more. That makes perfect sense to me. We won't have to worry about producing CO2 anymore. Labor is too expensive. Parts cost too much. Why do you think they keep showing those caveman on television? That's the way we'll all be soon. What's old is new again. We don't need to record anything else. It's already been recorded. Besides, duplication is a boring job. Could you please pass the Tumbleweed?

Whoops! It just blew by me.
Ms. Remy Ann David

eatmyshoes wrote: It's confusing picking mixers... my whole life i assumed mackie's were good. Then again, assuming things has always gotten me in trouble. About 3 months ago, our main output fader went to crap... Today, we have a guy coming to class today to take apart our mackie 32x8 console and tell us why its crap. I'm interested...

First of all, most everything now is surface mount. Second, it is not necessarily how a product is manufactured, but WHO designed and manufactured it. Even then we must be careful because, many companies hire out design and manufacturing and this is not consistent through their lines.

For instance. Yamaha OEM'd some stuff like their EMX line, their rackmount EQs, compressors, etc. But other things like the large format consoles were in another Yamaha department. Just because it says Yamaha doesn't mean that any technology has trickled down or that it is good by association. That is not the case.

Now, when the Mackie came out, it was the first. There were no other budget recording consoles like it. That is if we were talking about the 8 bus recording console and not the large format live consoles. The 8 bus console was outperforming consoles costing much more. But it was made for a specific market and pricepoint. So, people ignorantly began using the recording console in the live arena, pro and otherwise, and then began to bash. So they were stupid. Never use anything in a more demanding setting than designed. It, whatever IT is, will let you down.

The Mackie 8 bus is not the cleanest console. It does not have good gain structure. It has some serious phase issues in the channel strip. The EQ sounds horrid.

Now today, there are much better options for live sound. There is a big variety of live sound products. So pick one and use it. There ARE gain issues with consoles. For instance, if you hook up a Soundcraft LX7 side by side with a Mackie 1604, the Mackie will have more output. Just the the differences in the summing amps/designs. So, it is very likely that if you replicated your settings on the Yamahas that there was a difference. But I suspect that there could have been a malfunction or operator error too.