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Ron.G 2 May 2003

Would this pre be good for all my main tracking?
I don't realy have any high-endpre's so this would be my "go to pre".
any help would be great. I know it's not a lot of money to some but for me(baby on the way)I need the most bang for the buck to take my recordings to the next level.

Thanks!

Comments

KurtFoster Fri, 05/02/2003 - 09:25

Ron,
If you haven' already done so, you should read the review of the Sebatron vmp - 4000 at
recording.org/e-mag/

That should answer all your questions. I will say this, the vmp - 4000 is a fairly neutral sounding pre at nominal settings, but it has the ability to be daisy chained thereby driven harder, or by use of a 15dB or 30dB pad, again driven harder bringing more tube coloration and attitude into the signal. Added to that ability is the implementation of low frequency boost/ cut switch and a two position bright/air switch to tailor eq. I have found the vmp - 4000 to be a very versatile pre suitable for many applications. In addition, I have not heard one complaint regarding these fine mic pres from anyone who has purchased one. Kurt

Ron.G Fri, 05/02/2003 - 10:06

Thanks Kurt, I did read your review and it was very good. thats what got me interested in the pre's.
In the review you described it as warm and fat, I wasn't sure if it would be to much for all my tracking.

It certainly seems to be just what I'm looking for.
having the ability of neutral and color is a very cool thing.
I'm ordering today!

KurtFoster Fri, 05/02/2003 - 15:26

A funny thing about that thread, is in that same forum,
there is a thread asking if a certain pre amp would be a
good all around, one for all uses, type pre. So when you tell
these guys about one, they don't want to believe it! They
are even complaining that the Sebatron is too inexpensive
to be any good! Some people are never happy. I suspect
that some of these folks are disgruntled because someone
has told them there is something better available than
what they already have. Kurt

Ron.G Fri, 05/02/2003 - 16:26

Wow! you aren't kidding. lots of skeptics on that forum. I usually check out reviews
from places I'm formiliar with and even though I'm new here, I feel that Kurt's review
was not over hyped and seemed very straight forward and honest.

I'm getting one because of the features it has and the reviews do have some impact,
but if it doesn't live up to my expectations I can always send it back. they have a good return policy.

thanks for the link, it's always good to look at both sides.

.

Bowisc Sat, 05/03/2003 - 22:16

Yeah Baby! (sorry, got a bit emotional). I placed my order for a 4000e yesterday.

Gotta mention...
My MP-2NV came in today... [audio bliss]

[audio bliss]

[speechless]

[...dizzy....]

Ok, I'm back. Sorry. It's been a GREAT Saturday for me.

Kurt, my offer for the 4Ke was accepted! ;)

Bowisc

Bobby Loux Sun, 05/04/2003 - 07:23

Bowisc

I really like the Great River Piece (I just rented it) can you tell me what you like about the RNP and the VTB-1?

I'm looking into an RNP for a clean pre (to go with my RNC) and how useable is the tube blend of the VTB-1 (do you use it mainly in tube mode, solid state, or blend)

if you get a minute to let me know how all those pieces compare, that would be cool.

nice set up..Thanks

Sebatron Sun, 05/04/2003 - 14:05

You might want to return the MP-2NV. I hear the Sebatron "blows it away".

That's silly J.Slator!

....The Sebatron's a mic pre not a gun.

There are a heap of great mic pres out there and the MP-2NV is definately one of them.

Mic pres are like windows for sound.
Each one different.....each one applicable.

....If the glass is too clean, it may let in too much sun and burn your eyes. :eek:

anonymous Sun, 05/04/2003 - 16:17

It is hard to tell when someone is sarcastic in a written message. I have seen some people use italics to denote when they are being sarcastic.
Bobby Loux- I have both the RNP and the VTB-1. They are both great mic pres, particularly at the price (VTB-1 is now $129 at many online retailers). If you are going clean the RNP is probably the best, least expensive option. The VTB-1 isn't in the same league as a Universal Audio 2-610, but for the price you can't lose. If you buy a VTB-1 and you are happy with the "dirty" sounds you get, then you have won. If it gets you by until you get a more high-end tube pre (the Sebatron, a Peavey VMP, the soon-coming Studio Projects VTB-2, or even a UA 610) you are still doing alright because the VTB-1 has a good "clean" sound. I will probably always find a use for mine, even if I get another couple of mic pres.
Another consideration is taking the money you would spend on an RNP and a VTB-1 and using it towards a Peavey or a Sebatron. Depends on your needs and budget, and projected spending.
Starting to ramble,
must...
end...
post...
Doc

Bowisc Sun, 05/04/2003 - 16:28

Originally posted by Doc@BeefyTreats.com:
It is hard to tell when someone is sarcastic in a written message. I have seen some people use italics to denote when they are being sarcastic.
Bobby Loux- I have both the RNP and the VTB-1. They are both great mic pres, particularly at the price (VTB-1 is now $129 at many online retailers). If you are going clean the RNP is probably the best, least expensive option. The VTB-1 isn't in the same league as a Universal Audio 2-610, but for the price you can't lose. If you buy a VTB-1 and you are happy with the "dirty" sounds you get, then you have won. If it gets you by until you get a more high-end tube pre (the Sebatron, a Peavey VMP, the soon-coming Studio Projects VTB-2, or even a UA 610) you are still doing alright because the VTB-1 has a good "clean" sound. I will probably always find a use for mine, even if I get another couple of mic pres.
Another consideration is taking the money you would spend on an RNP and a VTB-1 and using it towards a Peavey or a Sebatron. Depends on your needs and budget, and projected spending.
Starting to ramble,
must...
end...
post...
Doc

Well said, Doc. My sentiments exactly.

Bobby, I used the Tube Blend once... never did much for me on most material. In full S/S mode, this pre is a a good value for $129. You can crank up the input pretty high, and it isn't very noisey. Tons of features, if that's where you priorities are. Fairly neutral sounding... can be a tad "steril" at times. For me, it doesn't excite me much. As Doc said, it depends on your budget, goals, and what's important to you.

To me, the RNP has a unique sound. There's an "airiness" to it... but not in terms of a high-frequency "boost"... more like your rooftop is removed and you can reach out into the stars... DI is pretty good. An excellent value for under $500, and is up there (at least to me) with the big-league players.

If you want clean, maybe save up for a Grace 101 (one channel)... or if you want more channels... check out the Sytek MPX-4aii. Four channels of very "fast" pre-amp... not many features at all, and sounds close to Earthworks 102. You can also have a JFET op-amp upgraded on Channels 3 and 4. Sytek is around $780.

Bowisc

Bobby Loux Sun, 05/04/2003 - 19:28

Bowisc and DOC

thanks for the info. it has been said on this forum that the RNp lacks headroom due to the fact that it doesnt have a monster power supply..Are you finding the headroom is lacking on the RNP?

My goals are as follows:
I'm using the 001 and want to add the RNP as my 2 channels of a clean pre for any stereo accoustic guit micing, drum overheads and stereo piano/keys.

then I'm looking for maybe a single channel Great River or the Vintech dual 72 as I like the in your face fat color of the Neve clones for vocals to go along with my tube mic.

I already own a dbx 376 and an ART PRO MPA which I might keep around for extra pre's (for drum micing) or just dump em and put the money towards the 4 channel Sebatron or maybe a digimax LT (as I have enough outboard compressors to use on the LT's 8 inserts.

I'll need no more than 8 to 10 pre's for the drum kit. the RNP for 2 overheads, digimaxLT for remainder of kit...of course the neve clone will give me that color I'm looking for my vocal chain.

maybe down the road I might upgrade my converters with a nice 2 channel AD/DA I'll use it for drum overheads and any overdubs...but I want to get my pre's situated first.

thanks for your info

Bowisc Mon, 05/05/2003 - 03:00

Originally posted by Bobby Loux:
Bowisc and DOC

thanks for the info. it has been said on this forum that the RNp lacks headroom due to the fact that it doesnt have a monster power supply..Are you finding the headroom is lacking on the RNP?

Bobby,

I haven't run into headroom problems with the RNC yet. But that's an interesting side I'd like to look into.

Happy Monday everyone.

Bowisc

Tekker Mon, 05/05/2003 - 07:04

Quote from Harmony Central: Originally posted by Kurt Foster
The prices are going to be going up soon (I suspect as a reaction to everyone questioning the low cost of the unit) so now would be a good time to get yours at a bargain price. I seriously could see these things selling at two or three times the price if they were sold through traditional sales outlets. The direct marketing approach really is a benefit to the buyer.

Hey Kurt (or Sebatron?), do you know how much the prices are going to be going up by (and how soon)? I definitely can't afford one right now (having some serious family problems right now, and I'm also flat broke paying for college), but really I'd like to in the not-to-distant-future, especially after hearing you talk about 'em :) ... And I'd hate to miss out on one of these if the price goes up too much. Which from what you've said about 'em, it sounds like they are easily worth 2-3 times the price they are now... I just wouldn't be able to afford it then. :(

Thanks,
-tkr

anonymous Mon, 05/05/2003 - 13:17

Hi all
I am finding that this negativity and maliciousness towards Sebatron pres from people who have not heard them is getting very tiring. It amazes me how the nay sayers and conspiracy theorists come out swinging whenever someone comes up with something that defies their (the nay sayers et al) comprehension or seems too good to be true. Sure, skepticism is one thing, but the BS being seen on this and other threads is really more indicative of the posters than the Seb pre.
I first heard about this pre from Kurt on this board. I followed up with more web based research and thought "for $1500 for 4 channels - if it's half as good as Kurt's review and the subsequent comments I read - I can't loose". Being in the Islands I do not have the opportunity to "try before I buy". Sebatron offered to refund me if I was not satisfied. After testing this pre on vocals (male and female), bass guitar, and drums, I was so satisfied that I ordered a second one.

Since I close my studio for hurricane season (and have no use of my gear from July till November) and because my second pre will not ship until after I close the studio in July, I offered for Sebatron to send my unit to Fletcher at Mercenary for an evaluation. Hopefully this will happen. If Fletcher is not interested, I would make the same offer to someone else of the same stature in the industry. (FLAKES NEED NOT APPLY!).
I have absolutely nothing to gain by doing this, but feel the quality of this pre and the bad hype from non-users justifies lending my gear out for an honest unbiased evaluation. I think that Sebatron is getting the short end of the stick - because he made a better mousetrap.

For all of you non-believers - NO I am not involved in any way with Sebatron, and NO I am not using any other aliases in any other posts. Until someone with credibility says this thing sucks, why not back off.

If anyone has any serious questions, i invite you to invest in a long distance phone call. email for my number.

KurtFoster Mon, 05/05/2003 - 14:45

Dan,
Thank you for that! Yours and others kind words make this worth it! It really started to bum me out when I started reading all the negative posts at “***Censored***”. It’s like “Why do I bother?” I don’t get paid to do this and I receive no perks or other compensation for writing these reviews. “Why should I put myself up to be ridiculed and slandered?” I do this only because I have always wanted to be a writer but until now, I have never been able to find something to write about. Then I finally figured out that I might be able to do a pretty good job at reviewing audio products. In the current state of the marketplace, mics and pres are two of the things I am most interested in.

Sometimes I feel like I can’t win.. I have been attacked here on the boards before because I have stated an opinion that something sucks.. so I begin to modify my responses to not be so harsh and now I am coming under fire for only saying good things and not saying if something licks.

In all the reviews I have done here at RO, the reason I never say anything negative is, I don’t publish the reviews of the crap I get. I check out the gear and if I can’t be rabidly positive of it in my evaluation, I send it back to the manufacturer and tell them that I can’t write a positive review for them. I suspect this is how all reviewers approach this as I personally have never seen a negative review published. Ever! And I read a lot of reviews. So when you see a review of a piece of gear you can probably assume that it has already passed muster and is of at least a minimum level of quality. To be frank, most reviewers won’t publish negative comments because they want to insure they will have an ability to get more gear to write about in the future. If a reviewer writes something slamming a piece, the OEM’s will cut them off immediately. It’s unfortunate but it’s true. So the only way to maintained any level of ethics while doing this is to follow the old axiom, “If you can’t say something good, don’t say anything at all!”. Thanks for your kind words Dan … Kurt

anonymous Mon, 05/05/2003 - 14:54

Originally posted by dan mcguinness:
I am finding that this negativity and maliciousness towards Sebatron pres from people who have not heard them is getting very tiring...

Give your head a shake. Nobody's slamming Sebatron pre's. A lot of people are slamming their marketing practices, and I for one, am wondering as to whether anybody has actually heard them. I've never in my life seen as much hype about a product that so few people have actually heard.

Maybe they're great; maybe they're not. But I can't suddenly buy wholesale into them being the greatest mic pre ever made in the history of the universe based purely on a single web review (especially when there also happens to be a lot of manufactured hype surrounding them). I'm skeptical by nature. Being so, I'd actually like to hear some more comment and perhaps (gasp!) even some recorded clips before determining whether it's something worth trying out.

I honestly hope it turns out to be the RNC of tube pre's, but so far it seems more like the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.theitque…"]Ginger[/]="http://www.theitque…"]Ginger[/] of tube pre's.

anonymous Thu, 05/08/2003 - 20:23

Give my head a shake???
Maybe give your head a shake!
What marketing practices???
It's a very good pre - if you haven't tried it - why knock it - there are a number of positive posts from totally impartial users.
Why this conspiracy theory about "marketing practices"? - I am not (nor do I believe lots of others are) part of any "marketing practice" - it's a very good pre - a number of us that have had the opportunity to try it believe that - what is a "marketing practice" about that???
I think your "negative hype" comments are a bigger issue - who said it was "the greatest pre in the history of the universe"? Why make a comment that implies someone else claimed something - only to knock down what was not specifically said? These types of comments only fan the "hype" flame!

Lighten up until you have heard these pres.

Dan

KurtFoster Thu, 05/08/2003 - 22:16

I will post which is which after we get some more responses to the snippits poll. I want to see what all of you think. There has only been one response so far. I would be interesed to hear what J. Slator has to say, go ahead and rate the snippits.. let's see what your ears say J.

Actually, I suspect that a lot of the detractors are bummed out that there may be a better pre amp available for less money, after they have gone out and spent bundles on a Neve clone knock off. One of the guys from the place where this all started is supposed to come to my place and we are going to compare his Great River. I will add that to the snippits list if/when that happens so you can all hear for yourselves. Kurt

anonymous Fri, 05/09/2003 - 09:20

Originally posted by dan mcguinness:
What marketing practices???

You obviously didn't read the HC thread. Their marketing practices involve planting people on every webboard on the planet to "rave" about their pre's in a very peculiar fashion. The names Bowsic posted are some of the aliases. If you think that's paranoia, try actually reading the posts. It's actually very obvious.

It's a very good pre - if you haven't tried it - why knock it

Show me where I knocked it. I havn't. You seem convinced that I have. That's why I suggested you give your head a shake.

...there are a number of positive posts from totally impartial users.

Well, I count two.

I think your "negative hype" comments are a bigger issue - who said it was "the greatest pre in the history of the universe"?

Kurt said it is better than any other pre he's ever heard. Some of the Sebatron plants have said that it "blows away" every other pre, and that major labels were suddenly interested in their music after they started using the Sebatron. It would have to be the greatest pre ever made for it to get you a record deal.

anonymous Fri, 05/09/2003 - 09:27

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
I would be interesed to hear what J. Slator has to say, go ahead and rate the snippits.. let's see what your ears say J.

I think some of the lack of response may be because they clips are so short. I didn't have much of a listen before the rao server went down, but I'll give them a better go this weekend and tell you my impressions.

Actually, I suspect that a lot of the detractors are bummed out that there may be a better pre amp available for less money, after they have gone out and spent bundles on a Neve clone knock off.

I doubt it.

One of the guys from the place where this all started...

Australia?

I will add that to the snippits list when that happens so you can all hear for yourselves.

Some longer snips would be nice, as would some different sources. I was hoping that Dan Richards would get a unit and post some clips on his "listening sessions" website. Apparantly they've told him they'll send him one, but he doesn't have it yet.

KurtFoster Fri, 05/09/2003 - 09:47

J.
I did it that way to keep it simple and to avoid confusion. The question isn't what do you think of the pres on different sources but can you hear any differences between these pres on one source? Also longer samples would have meant longer d-load time for many and I'm not pressing and selling CDs, so I kept it as short as possible. Unlike other people I actually have work / things to record and I don't want to spend days / weeks / months doing shootouts just to keep my studio busy. I wanted to keep it a short as possible and get it over with. I did this as a courtesy due to popular demand. I also did it this way so I would be sure all the samples were consistent in how they were miked and recorded. (k.i.s.s. principal) Acoustic guitar is one of the most difficult things to record well, so I thought that was an obvious choice. :tu: Kurt

No not Australia, but another recording forum site.

anonymous Fri, 05/09/2003 - 11:35

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
I did this as a courtesy due to popular demand.

No, I wasn't suggesting that you should do a lengthy shootout, just that I'd like to hear one. Dan Richards, bless his twisted heart, seems not to mind spending a lot of time doing that kind of thing. I'm looking forward to him getting one of these units.

anonymous Fri, 05/09/2003 - 18:56

Great thread, passionate but civil. Slator, I remember you from when I used to hang out at H-C. Glad to see you posting here.
For anybody who thinks Kurt is just a rubber-stamping PR guy, I have read his negative opinions on various pieces of gear in regular threads many times. As the guy said, he just doesn't go out of his way to review gear that he doesn't like. Doc

sdevino Sat, 05/10/2003 - 09:15

I have ordered a Sebatron Pre as I ponder becoming a dealer or distributor.

I carry very limited brands based solely on whther or not I would use it the item in my studio. If I like this unit enough to use it I will move to the next step and carry it as a dealer.

I will letyou know after I get it.

Steve

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