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Patching delimas - Patchbays

Profile picture for user Sidhu
Submitted by Sidhu on

Hello!



I will be repatching my small studio this week. To include a following :



16 Mic inputs to the control room.

4 Aux feeds to the floor.



I intend on setting up a self mix option for the artists. Ill provide four mini mixers (Behringer UB802) to the recording floor. Feeding each mixer with 4 audio stems. Each artist (rarely record over 4 at a time) can them tailor thier own foldback mix. They use the built in headphone amp.



Problem Splitting each aux send to the floor x 4



I was wanting to introduce a patchbay. The Behringer PX2000 offers a parralell mode, it takes the input from the top terminal and interconnects it to the remaining three terminals of one module. So I get a 1x3 split. I can take one split and route it to another module and affectively have a 1x5 split. I'll end up using two modules per stem, but thats ok.



This was working out well, till I learnt that the particular patchbay in question has unbalanced interconnects.



I was also hoping to use the patchbay to patch microphones (understanding the perils of the same, but hoping to get lucky). With all sixteen stage feeds coming to the patchbay, and me having the flexibility to route them to whichever pre/DAW input i desire. I do not own a mid/large format 8 Bus console, so this flexibility would be very nice.



What are my best options ? I have now called for a balanced patchbay. This will atleast take care of the mic patching issue. It however does not offer the parallel mode. I can still split using a half normalled configuration, but this would eat up too many modules.



How do i deal with splitting the aux signal x 4. Will a simple cord split into 4 outputs do ? (much like an extended Y cable)



Thank you very much and a very happy new year to all!



Cheers!

Sidhu

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Comments

Profile picture for user Kev
Kev

many choose NOT to put Mic levels on the patch panel

but some do

I prefer to use an XL3 panel for changing Mic feeds



I have parallel'd microphones

but very rarely

and it was using an XL3 Y cord



" How do i deal with splitting the aux signal x 4. Will a simple cord split into 4 outputs do ? (much like an extended Y cable) "



you want to feed 4 Behringer UB802 mixers

with

4 audio stems .... from what ?



if this device is 600 ohm spec'd output or just has a healthy current capability then

with the input to the UB802 mixers at ... perhaps 10 to 20k

I think it could work ... and probably work fine.



Try it

it can only ... not work and then you will need to find a Distribution Amp or equivalent.

Wed, 01/03/2007 - 13:05 Permalink
Profile picture for user Sidhu
Sidhu

Thanks a ton Kev!



Well, Let take the example of a recording setup.



I am recording a drummer, Guitarist, bassist and vox.



From my session, I have four aux feeds going to the floor.



Aux 01 is Kik/Click

Aux 02 is Guitar

Aux 03 is Bass

Aux 04 is vox



On reaching the floor, the feeds are routed to their respective channels on the UB802 with the drummer. So the drummer wants a lot more kick in his can, he mixes it in himself. He can even do a little EQ if he likes. :-).



I now want to take a split of all 4 auxes and give similar four channel feeds to the guitarist too... He does his own submix, and so-on...



A bit fancy, and i can pretty much do it myself, but fancy is sometimes nice....



cheers!

Wed, 01/03/2007 - 13:42 Permalink
Profile picture for user Kev
Kev

a quick google on the E-mu 1820

8 balanced or unbalanced outputs (+4 or -10)

I can't find a spec for max output and if it is true 600ohm



and I own an ADA80000



I think both units have enough grunt to try the multi Y cord

you could try either balance or unbalance



but the inputs to the UB802 could be more of an issue

" 6 balanced high-headroom line inputs "

but no info on the input impedance

I'll guess they are high ... (bridging)



try some single pair shielded cable with the 5 TRS connectors

try without the sheild connected at the 4 TRS connectors

don't chop off the shield drain wire as you may want to use it later



if there is hum ... connect just one sheild



make sense ?

Thu, 01/04/2007 - 04:01 Permalink
Profile picture for user Sidhu
Sidhu

Kev wrote:

but the inputs to the UB802 could be more of an issue

" 6 balanced high-headroom line inputs "

but no info on the input impedance

I'll guess they are high ... (bridging)



try some single pair shielded cable with the 5 TRS connectors

try without the sheild connected at the 4 TRS connectors

don't chop off the shield drain wire as you may want to use it later



if there is hum ... connect just one sheild



make sense ?





Took a couple of reads.. but yeah im good! Thanks a ton ! Ill keep u posted.



Should i initially try with the sheilds connected to the 4TRS connectors also, or is that sure to cause ground trouble ? I dont understand ground troubles at all.... Also, a single pair sheilded cable = Twin core cable (like a microphone cable)



Also, I dont understand the 'Bridging' part. Is it revelant in this dicussion ? Thanks!



8-)

Thu, 01/04/2007 - 08:46 Permalink
Profile picture for user Kev
Kev

yep on the twin core ... but it is smaller than the average Mic Cable



a line level installers cable that has a foil or braid with a drail wire for easy soldering or kroning



belden have both single pair and two pair cables for the job

so do others





to ground or to not ground

:)

today my gut feeling is go Groundless

you can easily connect one or all of them later



but I have been know to change my mind



ALL installations are best done in context

... that can't always be done but in a small music studio you can afford to test many of the options and pick the best for your situation.





Bridging Input is probably only an audio term but it does have a specific meaning

it is mostly to do with impedance and the attempt to remove the need for correct loading



Low imp outputs into High imp inputs

this will allow single outputs to feed multiple inputs



google

bridging audio Input

and you get



http://www.jensentransformers.com/an/ingenaes.pdf



I haven't read this one ... but



ALL of the Jensen stuff is worth a read ... and a print

AND

the same goes for the RANE library and notes



do it do it do it



ah hah !!

here is a better one

google

bridging audio Input impedance



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_impedance

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_bridging

Thu, 01/04/2007 - 13:34 Permalink