I don'tthink yu are "overdoing" anything, Marco.

Here's what I'm hearing... take it with a grain of salt.

The first thing I noticed was a fairly "boomy" bottom end. FWIW, I have quite a bit of bass trapping and BB absorption in my room.

There seems to be an "attack" missing on the rhythm-crunch guitars, as if the initial strikes - the very tops of the notes - are being attenuated some how... over-gating maybe?

I like the natural presence of the track on the whole. It's not crowded with effect. It feels as if the band is cohesively playing in the same space.

I won't comment on pocket an groove, I'm assuming you only want engineering critique...

Thanks for the comments I'll be looking into the bass.
Did you listen to the second song ?

pcrecord, post: 423292, member: 46460 wrote: I was well overdue to present some of my work here after commenting so often on others work. (easier to comment others than ourself I guess) ;)

Its good to see more people stepping up to the plate, right on Marco! Respect to those who post their work!

Listening to the first mix, I think you picked a good time to take a breath and ask for opinions!
Everything sounds pretty balanced but you can improve this with not much more work. ( maybe less compression too?)
A few dominant things stand out to me .

The first track seems a bit dry for my tastes and the vocals are a slightly pitchy. I would attack those area's first, then bring it back here and I would be able to offer more idea's inside the mix should it even need much more after that!

I hope that helps and thanks again for sharing !

I guess a playlist is not the best thing, I updated the post

pcrecord, post: 423300, member: 46460 wrote: I guess a playlist is not the best thing, I updated the post

I listened to the second one too, however the first one is all we need as they both share a common footprint that might kill two birds with one stone.

I tried to tune the vocal, added a bit of reverb (I like it fairly dry) and use a more transparent comp in Ozone.
I reposted new versions on soundcloud but I have a little doubt about that site. I uploaded from 16bit44khz files and the site did some kind of processing on them. I didn't have time to compare the site and my file but at first playback the site seemed to have less HF. It might be a placebo effect ;)

Anyway here they are. I hope you'll hear a bit of difference.

[MEDIA=soundcloud]pcrecord/morning-bright-master-2
[="https://soundcloud.com/pcrecord/morning-bright-master-2"]View: https://soundcloud.com/pcrecord/morning-bright-master-2[/]="https://soundcloud…"]View: https://soundcloud…]

[MEDIA=soundcloud]pcrecord/newday-master-2
[[url=http://="https://soundcloud…"]View: https://soundcloud…]="https://soundcloud…"]View: https://soundcloud…]

pcrecord, post: 423384, member: 46460 wrote: I reposted new versions on soundcloud but I have a little doubt about that site. I uploaded from 16bit44khz files and the site did some kind of processing on them. I didn't have time to compare the site and my file but at first playback the site seemed to have less HF. It might be a placebo effect

Since I adapted mixing into a capture and do all my finishing there, my exported files sound exactly as I expect online. I am never surprised or disappointed with Soundcloud or any export or CD for that matter. Never.

I'll be in my studio later today, I'm looking forward to hearing what you did! :)

When playing in ozone (24bit96khz) or listening to the exported file (16bit44khz) I can't quite hear the difference.
I will compare with Soundcloud again, at match volumes. I just fear they use some compression. But that's all right. ;)

audiokid, post: 423387, member: 1 wrote: I'll be in my studio later today, I'm looking forward to hearing what you did! :)

Thank you for your time !(y)

audiokid, post: 423387, member: 1 wrote: Since I adapted mixing into a capture and do all my finishing there, my exported files sound exactly as I expect online. I am never surprised or disappointed with Soundcloud or any export or CD for that matter. Never.

I dunno guys... I've encountered problems wit SC here as well. Sometimes it will accept 320kb files, other times not, sometimes I'll get error codes that say "unable to process upload at this time", other times, 320 or 250's upload and play back without any problems. And sometimes, a file will upload fine but it sounds different after - things like it being compressed, or phasey, and I don't think it has anything to do with the capture method, because I'll try again and it will sound just fine, and with the exception of a wee bit of quality loss that's to be expected from an MP, sonically it sounds the same as the original file I've uploaded.

So, for me, the main frustration is that it's an intermittent thing, and not one thing I can track down, put my finger on, and correct; because one attempt will sound degraded somehow, where as another attempt of the exact same file will sound just fine, using the exact same settings in each case.

My guess is that it might be a local service provider thing; or a limitation of the local network...?
I don't have any explanation other than that, but I've definitely encountered issues from time to time on the SC playback sounding quite a bit different than the original file I uploaded.

Morning Bright sounds much better, Marco. Can you tell us what you did on the second mix?

Brand New Day sounds good... nice, natural vibe and space, very organic. I have nothing to add.

:)
d.

(Aside from individual uploading speed, your ISP)

I've heard people complained about corruption before and I'm not surprised.

However, fwiw and IMHO, I've not once experienced surprises caused from SC itself. I admit I have thought that but through self examination I discovered it was because of something I did to effect it somewhere.

I do hear a difference from my waves but the difference is very close as expected (an even degradation).
I have even done comparisons to my MP3 vs SC compression and each is close enough that I am alway confident a client is hearing what I trust to be close enough.

Perhaps that might have something to do with my summing, finishing and exporting process. I dunno . But I will say, this is why I choose to have my monitor output on the DAC of the export process. There is never one surprize.

DonnyThompson, post: 423395, member: 46114 wrote:

Morning Bright sounds much better, Marco. Can you tell us what you did on the second mix?

Brand New Day sounds good... nice, natural vibe and space, very organic. I have nothing to add.
:)
d.

On both songs :

• I changed tuning method form celemony to waves tune mono. I'm sure I could have good results with celemony but I need to put time for Learning it better.
• I added a bit more reverb (+5 db) and gave it a longer predelay 25-30ms
• I lowered both bass LF (below 50hz) -3db and another -3db around 80-100hz to let the bass drum go through a bit more.
• I also remade the pseudo master with Ozone from scratch, used a bit slower compression and used the guide with EQ matching a bit deeper than before which lowered a bit more of the low end.

On Morning bright, I also pushed up the guitar around +4db

Did you felt the tuning of the vocal was still an issue ?

audiokid, post: 423403, member: 1 wrote:
I do hear a difference from my waves but the difference is very close as expected (an even degradation).
I have even done comparisons to my MP3 vs SC compression and each is close enough that I am alway confident a client is hearing what I trust to be close enough.

The worst thing I did recently is bring my mixes to my car using a mp3 player. For a reason unknown, even if I deactivate any effects or EQ the frequency response changes depending on the volume adjustment of the player.. I went back and forth many times before realising the player was the problem.
I now burn CDs and get a better picture !! lol

When I first got into MP3 via my iphone, to my surprise I discovered my audio streams are being cached by file name.

Maybe something of interest.

I have a Soundcloud Pro account. "Pro" allows me to overwrite SC files, something I need to increase my workflow.
But, my iphone doesn't know the audio was overwritten to the lastest file.

In a very detailed mix, sharing this with another client through his iphone, I kept making subtle changes in my studio, going out to my truck where I wanted to compare SC. I mean, he was listening to a mix this way so I choose to do the same.

For hours I struggled with confusion. I had no idea why things weren't translating. I blamed SC and everything else I could until I looked into my iphone "General Settings" to realize it was caching everything I do.
Not only does that suck for me, but if someone else is using an iphone to listen to changes I've made, they won't hear it updated either. Even if we hit "refresh" via the screen refresh. I have to go to the iphone General Settings > scoll down to Soundcloud App each time I make a change on soundcloud.

Generally speaking,
The idea that anything is being cached in a world of detail sound engineering is nothing short of terrifying me. I often wonder how much of what we are doing is being cached or tricking us into thinking its faster than it really is.

The mixes sound better glued.

A personal suggestion, I always have a 1/4 BPM mono delay (full wet), 5 repeats or so on an Aux channel.

I would add a tiny amount of delay on the vox and guitars for a rhythmic augmentation. If you hear it, its most likely too much so I'm not saying you want this to sound like its electronic music.
I would do this for those track because the timing is a bit loose. A subtle delay will help glue timing corrections in a musical way. (You can even put a bit of reverb on the delays). Verb can add stereo sides in a more 3D but its only suggestion for that.
I always check effects in Mono to be sure they are doing what the mono track is supposed to be doing anyway.

Note: I wouldn't load a dedicated delay or reverb plug-in on the individual Vox or guitar channels. I always create AUX for my spacial effects and try to keep them 100% Wet so they add little sonics or phasing to the tracks. You should be able to mute your Aux channel and not hear any sonic change in volume other than delay or reverbs itself. Does that make sense. Maybe you do this already but I though I would mention that anyway.

To add a bit more Marco. I think because these songs are sung in English, a French accent may not be executing the English phrasing quite right. Therefore I think delay on the vox will help the phasing flow better. Does that make better sense?

think of that as adding a bit of sugar or spice rather than salt or MSG. ;)

Chris, you are quite right that the english thong in a french mouth could turn a bit square sometime ;)
I already have a delay on Morning bright but I guess I burried it too deep. I'll play around with some more and see how it goes.

BTW, That was me getting his feet caught in writing, recording and mixing everything. I'm in my zone with Drums and bass but playing guitar and singing was way over my head.. ;)... I guess I'm due for vocal training if I intend to do other songs..

Ah, there ya go. I'm not trying to get into the song itself but I did feel "delay or reverb" would improve the mix as a whole " with a because" . Glad you understand what I mean. :)

Something else that might be helpful.... It does sound like the song was tracked in stages and not quite learned enough. I bet a few more takes and possibly done all in one pass, would flow better too!

Here is where I am going on this comment now.
I hear a difference in tonalities from verse "one" vs "two". I think I prefer the changes you made in vers "two" on the Vox. Did you do that on a different day? What did you change? Verse two Vox has more roots , anchored to the session. I think I like the sound of that take better.
But my main question is, why is it different sounding?

Thoughts?

I've not had a chance to listen in the studio Marco, so I can't comment really.. however in relation to.. this..

pcrecord, post: 423410, member: 46460 wrote: BTW, That was me getting his feet caught in writing, recording and mixing everything. I'm in my zone with Drums and bass but playing guitar and singing was way over my head.. ;).

Do my drums and bass, I'll do your vocals and guitar :D

I have downloaded a trial version of Samplitude ProX 2
I'm gonna take a shot at mixing my songs with it.. How knows ;)

wow! It will take a bit to adjust. Its a learning curve that took me months to get comfortable on and more like a year before I had it down to where I was blazing along. Its a good one. I hope its a great experience for you.

Cheers!

What DAW are you using now?

Hi Marco, my suggestion should have little to do with your DAW platform though, they are something you can do on most DAW's. Whats your motivation in Samplitude?

I realize the question was directed at Marco, but I'll chime in and say that my main motivation was audio integrity.

After doing many A/B comparisons (using raw, flat audio) between Sam and Sonar, and PT, it was so obvious to me that it really was a no-brainer. PT wasn't as bad as Sonar, but Sam beat them both withoutquestion in terms of how it processes the audio. There's an obvious integrity there that the others lack.

I know there are those who feel that "all DAW's sound the same" ( I used to be one of those people), and some would take me to task with my statement, but I'm not gonna get into a debate about it, because you either hear a difference or you don't.

Sam was honest with the audio I gave it... sometimes even brutally honest. Sam is many things, but "forgiving" is not one of those things. And that's okay. I don't want to be lied to. ;)

I really like the 116 EQ. I also like the Analog Modeling Suite, although there are things I'm still learning about it. Am-munition is a very powerful GR processor. I've only just scratched the surface of what it can do.

I also quickly grew very fond of Object Based Editing, which is so intuitive that it probably requires its own thread. I use it to de-ess vocals all the time. I can't even remember the last time I used a de-esser plug.
Since getting into Sam's OBE, I don't need those anymore.

(For those interested, I recently posted a "how to" regarding de-essing using OBE, in the Samplitude Tricks and Tips thread: http://recording.org/index.php?threads/samplitude-tricks-and-tips.57866/ )

IMHO of course. ;)

I try not to be narrow minded. I've been a Sonar user since version 2.1 which was midi only at the time.
Sonar X3 is a blast as for easy workflow, plugin integration and feature counts.
BUT, once and a while I get to a mix/track and plugin count (which is not exagerated)where I notice I'm pushing it.
It's happening more and more since I track and mix at 96khz and this is bugging me. I'm talking of around 24 tracks here...
One thing that is not helping is that I don't like the track's EQ so I load Fabfilter's EQ2 on nearly every tracks.

I opened Samplitude and browsed it for 15min yesterday and I can say that it's not pretty. I might not know how yet but the mixer not going full screen is bugging me.
Already I'm missing some fonctions I use a lot in sonar, like using TAB to change the Q of eq.
But all this will be irrelevant if it sounds better at the end.

I'm already able to do any mix technics with sonar for that it's well thought.
I'm not trying samplitude only for those songs but to hear why my thrusty friends here say it sound better ;)

Anytime you switch platforms there will be things that change... or, things will remain the same but have different names...

As far as your hot-keys, that's something you've grown accustomed to over time, and so it's a tough thing to break, because they become second nature to you.

The first few days I was using Samplitude, I kept hitting the F9 and F10 keys to get me to the beginnings and ends of sections... and of course, in Samplitude, they did nothing. LOL.

Hot keys I can get with, or re bind them. The Tab fonction in EQ allow to change the frequency and amplitude of a band and when you hold tab your mouse now control the Q instead of going at the bottom to change it..

They are minor things I will get used to. After all as an IT guy we never keep getting used to versions of software and OS ;)

Hey there Pc , sound good here in my headphones . I really like the reverb on the vocals on the 2nd mixes . Sits in a nice spot here . (y)

Thanks smashh !

Some follow up :
I've worked a lot on 'New day', got the hang of using AudioSnap to do quantising. Good results with the drums but not really with bass and guitar.
I decided to retrack everything, not that it doesn't sound ok but just to record tighter tracks and experiment on a few things. Also, I'd like to put it on my website so it needs to be better then this ;) I'm definitly not use of wearing all the hats but I find the challenge appealing.

I did some tests on drums with my 2 Ribbon Fathead in M/S configuration and I was really surprise at how well the bottom end of the drums sounded in my small room.
I decided that I will use one fathead as a room mic but I still need to adjust the overhead(s) placement. I have some weird Ideas I want to test, I'll get back to you on these...

audiokid DonnyThompson
I just finished a new mix and master and would want your opinion. It's definitly not perfect but I think it's the best I can do with my limited guitar, bass and vocal talent.
My goal was to make a clean or pure mix to show how I can sound without too many tricks and artifacts. So not a lot of reverb, delays or effects, just the plain instruments.
I also want it to sound as loud and clear as commercial songs, (like some bruno mars stuff)
In doing so, I learn a valuable lesson on Ozone 6. It seems that when ever I push the volume with the maximizer it never gets to a good level without over compression.
So instead of using the stand alone app, I used the pluggin in a sonar session and finished the levels with the limiter of Fabfilter. At least it's not pumping so much anymore.
I've done so in 24bit96khz and exported it from sonar to 16bit 44khz using the export option with Dithering.

So I'm still open for comments specially if I did something obviously wrong ! ;)

[MEDIA=soundcloud]pcrecord/newday-master
[[url=http://[/URL]="https://soundcloud…"]View: https://soundcloud…]="https://soundcloud…"]View: https://soundcloud…]

awesome!
Bass, Vox, Drums ... everything is excellent. Well done Marco. (y)

audiokid, post: 424331, member: 1 wrote: awesome!
Bass, Vox, Drums ... everything is excellent. Well done Marco. (y)

You don't know how happy I am to read that !! :love: ;)

Oh yeah. Very nice. Awesome definition and clarity. Balance and tones are perfect. Print it. ;)

Yeah thats clear as , great job and a nice positive song . Got 2 thirds through the song and I was imagining this was the title track to a children's TV program .
Its a fun track , and the production, along with your voice ( sound like an honest and fun loving bloke ) made me go there (y).

It's started as a little project but, I soon realised it wasn't enough for me.
I had to redo it from the ground up to realise how different it sounds when we take the time to do it right.

Thanks you guys for the good words!

I've compressed just a tinny bit more of HF from my last mix.
Here's my definitive version (so the thread won't be empty) ;)

[MEDIA=soundcloud]pcrecord/new-day?in=pcrecord/sets/studio-marco-primeau

[MEDIA=soundcloud]pcrecord/new-day

Marco - do the cymbals - particularly the ride - sound a bit "phasey" to you with this MP3? Just curious... I'm hearing something there that I don't believe someone of your skill would have intentionally let through... you and I have both been through this before occasionally with SC, pal ... that's the only reason I'm mentioning it. You know I respect your work. ;)

I'm also taking into consideration that it just might be the ride sample you are using? It doesn't sound, well, for lack of a better word, "natural", at least to my ears, anyway. I dunno, maybe "phasey" is the wrong description.

OTOH, I really do like the song, it's fun... kind of reminiscent of Randy Newman - except you have a better voice. ;)

I also really like the sonics on your acoustic and vocal tracks. Very warm, but with nice smooth hi's, very pleasing....not at all brittle or harsh. Was this the Focusrite pre? If so, I can see why you like it. ;)

-donny

I'm convinced this is the SC convertions doing it's bads.. I wish we could have a place to share full wave resolutions.
Of course we can condamn them a lot but they didn't invent the mp3 format. We are bound to loose quality !! ( and it's free)

DonnyThompson, post: 425728, member: 46114 wrote: I'm also taking into consideration that it just might be the ride sample you are using?

Donny, I'm gonna take this as a compliment because this is a recording of my acoustic Ayotte Drum in a very small room and I didn't mic the ride (because it is already very loud) It's coming through the Overheads, the floor mic and snare mic and room mic. The ride itself has some twirly phasy sound that comes with hammered cymbals. I phase aligned all the tracks and while it is possible it is not perfect, I don't hear too much deffects on the wave version ;) On the other hand, I recorded it without punch ins and out so I had to fix some a couple of notes here and there. I doubt it but you could be hearing some fade in/out of the moved notes.

Thanks for the good words on the guitar and voice. I consider that as an achivement since I'm neither a signer nor a guitar player.
The vocal was recorded with a KSM44 through the LA-610.
My acoustic guitar is a bit thin sounding by it self and I'm thinking of replacing it. I went with a M/S configuration up the 12th fret with the KSM44 as mid, and A Cascade Fathead as side mic, both through the ISA preamps.