I bet if you hang around for just a little while there will be someone who can tell you just what you need to buy to do this!

Smartass answer - only if the vocalist has extremely attractive breasts (or pects).

The long answer is that it is a standard practice with major label pop artists to "comp" vocals: you take 15 takes of a song and go through word by word and syllable by syllable and pick the best instance from the 15 takes and paste them together. I presume that there are vocalists whose pitch needs correction on a large number of syllables. (I've never done this myself and don't intend to. But many instructional books on using recording software will give you a tutorial on how to do it - claiming that every engineer has to know how to do it. Producers tend to keep mum about it when they are talking about their artists. Draw your own conclusions.)

So yes, it can be done. Long expensive process. How likely is it that this record will sell a million copies?

I'm no expert but a friend of mine who's been recording for a while would suggest melodyne.

Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! Gooollleee Sarge!

I'm no expert but a friend of mine who has been recording for a while would recommend singing lessons.

Doh! That's what I get for not paying attention to what is going on around here!

Thanks for the responses. I'm sure that it will be tedious and that it would be easier to just record an artist who can actually sing instead, but... She's pretty, and a good friend of mine. I'm sure it will be tedious but it's work and time that I am willing to put in.

When you say it's an expensive process, how so?

The Auto-Tune series 4.12 can do absolutely remarkable things in automatic mode. Worth the price of admission. Works as a DirectX plug-in for most software's. You don't have to correct every note. It does. Highlight the track and apply the plug-in. This is assuming she is isolated on her own track? That's the only way you can accomplish this. You may have to experiment with the plug-in settings a bit but it will do quite a job. Generally under $300.

Hope you get laid?
Ms. Remy Ann David

RemyRAD wrote: The Auto-Tune series 4.12 can do absolutely remarkable things in automatic mode. Worth the price of admission. Works as a DirectX plug-in for most software's. You don't have to correct every note. It does. Highlight the track and apply the plug-in. This is assuming she is isolated on her own track?

I've never experimented with Auto-Tune before, so I have no idea what "automatic mode" is or what it does. It's hard to imagine that a program could automatically make every note in tune with no human assistance... After all, the program doesn't know what the melody is supposed to sound like?

RemyRAD wrote: This is assuming she is isolated on her own track?

Of course.

Despite the spam I own the melodyne VST, and like it. I only use it as a last resort, but it is a powerful tool. I hope thats ok MarkG. ;->

MarkG wrote: Surprise! Surprise! Surprise! Gooollleee Sarge!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I found a Jim Neighbors album in my stack of vinyl the other day, and I felt a little sarcastic.

Link, I actually tried the demo version of melodyne a few years ago and couldn't figure out how to use it. If I could have made it work I probably would have bought and used it (most likely, OVERused it!)

Based on the Youtube video posted by dartstothesea, Melodyne actually looks surprisingly easy to use. It looks like simple clicking and dragging to me... Is it actually more difficult to use than it looks?

Keep in mind that I will only be editing vocal tracks here, not full productions.

Yep its very simple to use, but it does have a few bugs, or at least I have a few issues with it. Mainly, if you apply it, do some edits and save the project. When you close and reopen the pitch changes will not play back correctly. However if you print the changes during the seesion to a new track you can avoid that problem. I think they may have mentioned that issue somewhere on there site or in the manual. But regardless it's a pain...

RE: I've never experimented with Auto-Tune before, so I have no idea what "automatic mode" is or what it does. It's hard to imagine that a program could automatically make every note in tune with no human assistance... After all, the program doesn't know what the melody is supposed to sound like?

I just wanted to respond to this post from tbr567. Autotune can do quite a lot to correct vocal pitch problems automatically when set correctly. You are correct about the melody, Autotune does not know the melody, however the melody of a song is phrased by a vocalist using notes which Autotune does of course understand and this is how it acheives its aim.

The program is able to detect the pitch of incoming notes and compares it mathmatically to the proposed output values. For simplicity lets say the singer sings a note (slightly off pitch) from A-440Hz. Autotune notices that the frequency of the sung phrase is not spot on 440Hz, but in fact at say 415Hz that of Ab. If we are singing in the key of C, Autotune knows that there are no (b) flats in the key of C, so it modifies the note to the next step up which is 440Hz. To the human ear the note sung now appears to have been sung correctly in tune.

Therefore it modifies the digital signal to reflect how it would sound if the singer had sung the phrase in tune. That is just a hopefully simple explanation of how software like this works. Naturally it is far more complex than this, but this should be enough for a noob to grip the basic concept of Autotune. I am new on this forum yet an experienced recording engineer of more than 10 years. I look forward to expanding my knowledge. I am also an accomplished vocalist.

Good to be at recording.org tks :)

Adam

On the subject of how "automatic mode" can work, it stands to reason that if the tuning error is never as much as 1/4 tone it would be possible to correct by simply choosing the nearest note (chromatic mode).

If the song is in a normal diatonic key the error could be larger and the software still correct because, as already explained some notes could not have been intended as they don't occur in that key. This means the error can be anything up to but not including a semitone in most cases or a 1/4 tone in the two cases where the legitimate notes of the scale are only a semitone apart.

So, what happens if the tuning error is greater than this. To me the obvious answer would be for someone to play the correct tune on a parallel MIDI track and the tuning corrector to use that as a reference. I don't know if any current software does this.

Fozzy's got it correct.
It's like quantizing for pitch instead of time.
If the vocal is too far off pitch, then you need to come out of 'Auto mode' and move to 'Graphic mode' - Here you can drag the offending note as close as you want to the correct note.
It takes a little skill, but stellar results can be had.

Most "automatic" modes are smarter than the simple round to the nearest pitch option. I wrote one years ago that used a moving time average of the detected pitch to smooth out the intended note. Some have an attack and release control so that if the pitch dips bellow the -1/4 tone threshold for a small amount of time, and then rises above it the pitch is not incorrectly tuned to the wrong note. This is useful for large vibrato, and poor vocalists.

Fozzy wrote: ... To me the obvious answer would be for someone to play the correct tune on a parallel MIDI track and the tuning corrector to use that as a reference. I don't know if any current software does this.

GSnap, and It's free (Pretty sure Melodyne and Autotune will do this as well.)

Melodyne is the way to go. I've been sold on this for about a year now. It's like taking the wave file display, and putting on what almost looks like a sequencer for midi-it also analyzes the pitch to get it to the closest note. and it doesnt mess with the tempo when you change the pitch. I was able to make it seem like i was able to hold a note longer than normal. and it works on instruments as well, though i didnt use it for that yet. its pretty crazy. i use to comp my vocal tracks, but now that seems like it takes way too long. you can make almost anyone sound good. it sounds more natural than antares, which i had a rack unit for prior to melodyne until it broke down. i think that this may soon become an industry standard. wait a minute, i sound like an ad. maybe because this software has given me something my studio has really needed.

Autotuning her in realtime won't sound good in this situation will it? I mean, if she's completely off key all of the time, you'll probably have to have really short attack times and whatnot. Then you'll get that effect we've all come to hate so much. :)

Will Melodyne have these same artifacts? I haven't used it enough to know. If she's really off key, and from what you said I am assuming she is... I second the multiple takes idea. Do 100. You'd have to be able to comp a decent vocal out of 100 takes right? :)

they have a demo version on the melodyne website. i suggest you try it. there are very small differences that only a trained ear can tell- if it is used well. it is much more natural sounding than antares. i'm kind of eager to see what the new pitch correction is like on protools 8LE. if it is any good i might just have to go back to my mbox. any beta testers reading?

Sonar 8 (and 7) comes with V-Vocal. Almost as good as Melodyne.

GeckoMusic wrote: Most "automatic" modes are smarter than the simple round to the nearest pitch option. I wrote one years ago that used a moving time average of the detected pitch to smooth out the intended note. Some have an attack and release control so that if the pitch dips bellow the -1/4 tone threshold for a small amount of time, and then rises above it the pitch is not incorrectly tuned to the wrong note. This is useful for large vibrato, and poor vocalists.

Wait, how did I miss this? YOU wrote the GSeries plugs?? All hail! I use them EVERY day. That series has the best sounding HP and LP filters I've heard, with no CPU usage. Amazing! Thank you! The GClipper is awesome as well. They all are. :) Oh, and the Tri-Chorus... MMMMMM.

Edit:

Also, everyone probably already does this but... I like to float the Autotune in and out with automations when I use it. This way it sounds more natural because it leaves some slightly off notes. Plus it's not running the good notes through the processor.

Sorry, I was not clear. I wrote an auto tune plug in for my own use. G-Snap is a free on that I recommend. I wish I could write that software. Those are some of my go to plug ins for a number of tasks.

To qualify, I'm strictly amateur.

I use Melodyne Uno for $200. It was the best two bills I ever spent. okay, it's the SECOND best money I ever spent. The best was voice lessons, as was mentioned earlier. They should never be underestimated.

Before I got Melodyne, this is what I did. I recommend it for people who don't have really great pitch themselves:

-Use your midi to create a one-note-at-a-time piano track, which corresponds to the lead vocal, exactly as it is to be sung.
-Make a CD with the bed tracks, and this piano track fairly loud, kind of like a kareoke thing
-give the CD to the vocalist, and tell her to put it in her car CD player, and sing along with it for about a week.
-On recording day, you include the piano track in the headphones for her to follow. She'll be used to it by then.
-Then of course, you just drop out the piano track, and her vocal will be as good as it's ever going to get.
-It can also help if she's a chronic scooper or diver with her notes.

Worked wonders for me.

Back to the Melodyne software:

There are times when it can add some goofy things to the notes, but in the end, they are usually so subtle that they are hidden in the mix. It may not be perfect, but it's a hundred times better than an out of tune vocal. That just hurts the ears!

You can take a note, lengthen it, shorten it, or make it into an entirely new melody, and a host of other things.

I'm right now working on a project where I'm assembling a whole bunch of vocalists, each is an amateur, each is in their own 'studio'(read bedroom/living room). Some of them have sung the melody entirely wrong, most are out of tune. I'm able to make them all do the same melody, in the same time, in tune, and put the whole works together. It's all working really well.

If you move a note more than a tone, you can tell it doesn't sound quite right, but hey, you can't have everything.

Get it. Use it. Learn it. You'll be amazed at what the stuff can do.

cheers
Keith