i what one.

just think about it a litle solder new tube, caps a wooden box and a new cable and you could have youe self a nice litle mic.

I'm sorry there not the same mics. As soon as you here the aphex you'll know about the difference. the aphex sounds like harsh unpolished shit, gritty sounds like a 200 dollar mic. As far as the long thread (6 pages) on gearslutz people love to bash something, but out of all the post only one person actaully heard the 460, and comented it sounded tike crap, 2D. And as far as the the page Dan set up the dissmantlingh and ultimatelly the rumor, please hurry up and post small clips in wav format than everyone canreturn there bulk bought Aphex 460's. For a well respected site I'm suprized that much BS got posted, OK you guys are pissed its "overpriced" but your just missinforming poeple that just because parts are similar it sounds, reacts, feels the same, have you ever bought an octava, there build is so bad almost all of there mics sound very different, same parts same factory. Yes quality and craftmanship does meen something. Don't buy the rumor mills, test listen use your ears.

they did keep saying its over priced. i dont think so. think about it as you can see from the pics in the links the phisical components are all difrant (ressitors caps and tube) if you have that kind of wirk done thats almost 500 dollars. and i doubt the capule is the same aphex comes from china (most likly) and telefunken comes from europe. already in parts and labor you talking a total price of about 900, then add a wooden box and a litle plastic peace that says telefunken on it.

Are some of you brain-dead? Did you even take the time to READ the posts at Gearslutz? Telefunken themselves admitted that the differences are minor (i.e; wooden box, Tele logo, different caps, resis.). Are you so dense that you believe a few different caps cost over a $1000? Alicia Keys recommends it so you're buying? Hey, I've got an old '85 Chevy truck with high miles. I'm gonna slap a Corvette logo on it and sell it to you guys so get your checkbooks ready. Hey Anusmissile, are you a Tele rep or what's your deal? Nobody could possibly be so naive.

you cannot get(or it is hard to find) a desent dual diaphram capsule for less then 200 to get the one that they got is probably closer to 350 to 400 and a complete recap job done by qualified techs would cost you a preaty penny mabey close to 150-200 then the tube probably 60-120 if not more. and remember the cost of the aphex is 250 so
1010 consevitive
1170 relistic

and thats not counting the wooden box, paint polish and litle plascit square. i mean come on thouse decals are really hard to put on with out ripping. :)

I didn't coment on the price, I'm taking about two mics that are similar, with almost the same parts, one sounding like shit the other from what poeple are comenting on sounds great, not one person said the M 16 sounds like shit, I for one have heard the 460 which sounds like shit. Whatever comments get sprung I stand with what I say. Your options are a 200 mic that sounds like crap or a 1200 mic that several people have said sounds great. No I don't work for telefunken, but I do own and run my personal studio, I don't buy shit equipment, nor do I like fizzly harsh mics. I earn and buy good equipment. My ears don't lie, hey i live close to tele usa I think I'm going to take a trip down. And if build doesn't matter why does the 460 sound like shit?Did you read the gearslutz post, the 460 is 200-300 the mod is around 400, tle has a diff. pwr supply and cabling, so you'll be paying about 700 for a mic thats still a toss up, and even after the mod it might not sound as good as the tele. Delio are you a troll? Delio do you work for GC or MXL or something; are you so dense your ears don't work? One question to wrap it up, delio the troll; are you so fuckin dense you don't relize why i posted? cost of parts don't always dictate the price point of a mic, how it sounds, reacts, and ultimately works for you dictates that.

Just a note. Any mic you buy is a rip off if your just adding up how much the components cost. Your not paying for that.

What you pay for is research and most importantly skill and experience. I'd like to give you an analogy:

In fine dining, the prep cook chops the onions makes the broth and puts together a decent sauce. The chef walks buy, sticks his finger in it and says "Add another pinch of salt and a splash of wine" and walks away.

And that my friends is the difference between good enough and great. And that is the difference between a $10.00/hour prep cook and a $100,000 per year Chef :)

If you read carefully through the thread on GS, including Telefunken USA's responses - you would have learned that the capsule IS INDEED the SAME! Telefunken 'chooses' the capsules (apparently a greater quality control), but they are the same Chinese capsules as the Apex 460.

The tube, a few caps, a few resistors. That's the difference. Oh, and the paint job and badge.

Dan's tests also pointed to the Tele being noisier.

Someone else posted these:

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?ItemNumber=CTM100&CID=MIC

http://www.nady.com/products/product_pgs/tcmmics_pg3.html

In the end, you have to use them and judge for yourself. I have an Apex 460 that arrived today, and a Tele USA coming tomorrow.

But, it can't be denied that the whole thing is at least a bit shady... Not what you'd expect from a company who tried to create the public perception that Tele USA has tried to create over the last few years...

The only BS is here, written by those justifying the Telefunken.
Take a look at the mics. The capsules are certainly the same, the parts different because well, only the negligible parts. The PS are the same, same parts, same everything.

Did you look at the graphs? The are almost identical, except the TF is noisier and has less low end.

If TF was going to save money, they'd have made the internal here and had them assembled in China, where the labor is cheap.

They are the same mic, perios. You wanna deny it, I couldn't care less. By all means, please go buy a few. In fact, you're probably someone who got ripped off and are now trying to defend your purchase.

TF should have come clean. They fucked up and got caught. They will pay...they have devalued their product.

No wonder they get away wuth selling mics like this, with such ingnorant denial flying around. Sorry, you guys are fucking idiots.....wait, no, I'm not sorry.

LMAO........LMAO......LMAO.......LMAO......

Hey mad, I don't own one so I have no bias. Just my humble opinion.

I think it is pretty clear that the main issue against Chinese manafacturing is the quality control. I have alot of personal expereince with Apex mics (I'm Canadian) and those graphs you mention - if you get 1 out of 10 Apex mics to match those graphs I'd be surprised. My *guess* is that the TF mic will nail it alot more often.

So if anything I'd rather have the parts made in China and have them assembled & tested here. OTOH if you have the opportunity to test a bunch of Apex mics I'm sure you can find a few nice sounding ones.

It's like Fender guitars. The Mexican ones are hit and miss - but I've played some real good ones. In the end I buy the custom shop versions for 4 X the price because time in and time out they nearly all sound good, and they hold their value.

Don't think that a Neumann (for eg) and I own a few of them present a better value in the parts per sale price catagory. They're just a bunch of German fellas thinking about getting laid after they finish work too ya know :)

did you read the (now dead) gs thread? it said that the telefunken rep said that the capsules where from europe not china. they also said that the case and internal hardware is made overseas to be manufactured here. also reread my post "complete recap job done by qualified techs"

what we should be upset agienst is aphex, and now carvin and nady for keeping us from the those litle wooden boxs, as i would expect that thouse are made in china. also i dont have a m16 or a 460, but that means nothing if i had bolth then i could tell you for sure, which one sounds better. so all i can say is the TECH matters almost more then anything else.

give an old silvertone guitar to a master luthier and he will hand you back a masterpiece.

Kats and Frob:

All of your points are valid, no doubt.
But the thing is, look at the close ups on the mics.
If anything, the Apex looks like it's been put togtether better.

Also, the person who has compared much more closely than we will is basically letting you know they are about the same mic. Excpet for one thing: the Apex actually specs out better.

Remember, he didn't hand pick either of the mics, just used the ones sent to him. And he didn't just take a quick peek, he looked very well and even had a spectal analysis done.

A couple of things. The Chinese mics have gotten better since they were first introduced. Still, I know, QA must be done. Still, just how much of a coincidence would it be that two randomly picked mics spec'd out so closely? And actually, the Telefunken might have been selected and picked as one of their best, who knows?

All of that being said, this is the mic equivalent to DNA evidence being ignored because the glove didn't fit OJ and certain members of the jury decided they weren't going to convict no matter what.

In this case, there is microphone DNA evidence and if you are not biased, you just can't deny it.

Again, not to dismiss you opinions on QC and techs, I agree.
But it doesn't truly have anything to do with the facts at hand.
using OJ again, it's like saying:
OJ was a great football player.
His wife wasn't
Therefore he couldn't have killed her.
The first two opinions are valid, but they have nothing to do with the questions at hand.

Anyway, I don't really care about it all.....I'm just drawn to trainwrecks.

"Apex actually specs out better"
Explain your theory.

missil - the Apex spec-ing out better is on the
http://www.studioreviews.com/

Well, I bought an Apex 460, and got a Tele USA RFTm16, and used them in sessions today (and will tomorrow and Sunday). And, at first listen, there is very little if any difference. For those who are still unclear, re-read the Tele USA posts on Gearslutz - they ARE the same capsules (this was confirmed by them on the phone as well). They apparently choose them individually, but that's a QC thing. Only the tube and some caps and resisters are different (and supposedly the wiring).

I can bear out Dan's measurements - the RFt M16 is noticeably noisier than the Apex. It's quite noticeable. Sonically, they have that Chinese mic harshness, a little scooped out in the low mids - pretty much what you'd expect from a $229 retail Chinese mic...

Well that pretty much ends this thread.

So pegleg, IYO would you say the Apex is a good mic, or that the tele is an underperformer? (Forgetting about this price issue)

I'm not pegleg, but I'll venture an answer for you:

The APEX isn't a phenomenal mic, and the Tele isn't an underperformer. They are what they are (the same mic)...which is probably the best Shanghai/Feilo mic made today...which isn't necessarily saying much considering the sound of the capsule and ultra-crappy tranny.

cheers,
Chris

chriscavell wrote: The APEX isn't a phenomenal mic, and the Tele isn't an underperformer. They are what they are (the same mic)...

how can you make a statment like that when they're basically the same mic and one costs $1400 while the other costs $200.

obviously either one mic is over performing or one mic is under performing based on Price!

-Blaumph

Both are kind of funky

As I am the subject of peglegs mike testing and mostly just an untrained set of ears, I had these thoughts about these mikes. It was surprising to hear how close the two actually were to each other sound wise. Bringing up the mikes individually got some strange results as well because the apex was actually quieter (didn't say good).
That being said, they both suffer from that brittle harshness, High endy with some weirdness in the mids as well, not very smooth, would expect that from a cheaper microphone but not really on a expensive one. Lots of people do, however, like that high end sound and may be better served to try a bunch of different microphones in their price range and let there own ears decide. It is easier than buying something just on someones advice or lack of. You may be better off saving a bit more and getting something that would maybe be a bit more versatile on a variety of different sources. Hope This helps a little.

kats wrote: Well that pretty much ends this thread.

So pegleg, IYO would you say the Apex is a good mic, or that the tele is an underperformer? (Forgetting about this price issue)

As the other replies suggest, even IF the Apex is a good mic, you'd still have to say the Tele is an underperformer, since it's almost identical and $1150 more! But, price aside, if I WANTED to buy a harsh and brittle sounding mic, with that nice metallic Chinese high end, I'd buy the Apex. It has a lower noise floor - that's about the biggest difference I could mention. I also slightly prefer the matte finish to the bright chrome. (but the Tele badge is cooler).

Tele USA told me that the Neu M147 was one of the mics they were 'gunning for'. I see no comparison. The M147 is richer, quieter, has none of the harshness or brittleness (brittality?), and IMO would sound better on a much wider variety of sources. If you had a vocalist who chews on socks while singing, and therefore needs lots of harsh high end to be intelligible - there you go!

Shantymaster was one of two vocalists who I tried the mics on so far, and the other has a very different voice. The results were the same, though the Apex / Tele mics were more annoying on the other singer.

I would say the Apex is a good deal for $229 - compared to things like the Rode NT2, the SE5600 (which I haven't compared side-by-side, but the Apex is 1/2 the price - the SE might be a little better sounding generally). I'm not sure I'd buy it over an AT mic in that range. The build quality isn't bad (other than the shock mount), the PSU is fine, so for $229 I can't say a whole lot of bad things.

I will not wax eloquent that this mic "competes with expensive German microphones costing 10x the price". Or, yes, it competes and loses badly. But if you can't afford a 414 or similar...

Did I mention the Tele also required more gain from the mic pre?

about 1/4 twist more on the gain

blaumph2cool wrote: [quote=chriscavell]The APEX isn't a phenomenal mic, and the Tele isn't an underperformer. They are what they are (the same mic)...

how can you make a statment like that when they're basically the same mic and one costs $1400 while the other costs $200.

obviously either one mic is over performing or one mic is under performing based on Price!

-Blaumph

Simple, because the cost of a microphone is rarely a direct reflection on its performance. The two microphones being compared here are the same microphone...to comment on one's performance is to comment identically on the other's. However, to comment on whether or not one is a good deal vs. another is a completely different notion and not the question I responded to. IMO, neither are a good deal really...the best deal would be to get a small business loan, order your own batch of a few thousand from the Feilo factory, put your own badge on them, and sell them for $50 less than the APEX. You'd undoubtedly make money in this market...

Pegleg wrong!

He meant the other singer was annoying :lol:

Pegleg wrong!

I sound great on a beta 58 when its not plugged in!

Man. Lots of input here. The initial link I posted got over 22,000 views in 3 days! I guess this is a pretty big deal, eh?

I still haven't ordered the Apex yet, but plan on it very soon. I surely don't plan on buying the m16 (I'd much rather buy a different mic for $1200!), so I'll have to leave that comparison to those who have a m16...

Thanks for the replies, and especially for pegleg's report "From the Field" :).

Dan Richards seems like a straight shooter, and I've chatted with him numerous times Online and on the phone. He has no need to BS these reports, as he will not make a dime as he sells NEITHER of these 2 mics.

Anyway, any further real world comparisons or general feedback are welcomed (keep it civil, please :wink: )

Later :cool:

Dan Richards has on his site now that he has interviewed Toni Fishman CEO of telefunken USA on the matter and will have a review posted "soon" this should put an end to the bickering that has been goin on here.

My post from PSW:

I used the Apex 460 and Tele USA RFT M16 in a number of session over the weeked, alongside other mics as well. I heard little or no difference between these two (other than the substantially higher noise floor onthe M16). Overall, I would still say the mic has a bit of a harsh high end - a big bump maybe from 7k up. There is a hint of metallic quality to it, though LESS than the SE5600, which I put up against it a few times. This bump accentuates sibilance, pick noise, cymbal harshness, and thins out the overall tone. The low end was less full than a 414BULS (mine's a pretty good sounding 414).

In the end, I probably like the Apex better than the SE5600, and Rode NT2, which isn't saying much for me as I dislike both of those. ((Tomas - do you use the NT2 on choirs only if you DON'T like them? :) ))
I can't compare it to many more mics in that price range as I'm unfamiliar with many more.

Other mics put against these : 4033, 414, UM70S, TLM193, U87, M147. To my ears, the Apex and Tele stood below mics like the 4033 on every source. It was 'no contest' with the M147, which Tele said they were gunning for with the M16.

Sound sources - three pretty different male vocalists, mono drum overheads, electric and acoustic guitar for rock, and a 2004 Taylor 915CE with maple back and sides, and an engleman spruce top.

I know Dan Richards, who first brought this similarity to my attention (and a lot of people's) has had some contact with Toni Fishman, and has some 'exciting new news' to tell soon. That's all well and good, and, for their sake, I hope they ditch this mic (quickly!) and do something different and better. However, if I had bought one of these a few months ago, then found this out, I'd be an unhappy customer. I did think that the Tele site was a little misleading:

"Telefunken products are meticulously handcrafted in the USA"

that's on the RFT M16 page. Also, this mic is in the 'professional series' alongside the ELAM 251F and the ELA M12F, which might make people nervous about those mics.

I can say the Apex for $229 isn't a horrible purchase.

Now, you could speculate that I got a REALLY good sample from Apex, and a bit of a dud Tele...

I'm hoping my Apex is also a "Good one" :wink: . Ordered it to see for myself. And, I wanted to mess with a variable pattern tube LDC (My first variable pattern mic!!! :eek: ) . If I hate it, I'll sell it for $200 on eBay, and take a $30 loss. Worth the $30 IMO...

I would not take this risk on the m16 (buy w/o trying it), as the resale loss would be much greater IMO.

:cool:

I just ordered a modified Apex 460 from Dave Thomas in Canada.......total cost with shipping about 370.........from what other have said regarding Dave Thomas mod is they outperform the Telefunken......I should get one in 7-10 days!

Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio

roflo wrote: I just ordered a modified Apex 460 from Dave Thomas in Canada.......total cost with shipping about 370.........from what other have said regarding Dave Thomas mod is they outperform the Telefunken......I should get one in 7-10 days!

Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio

So how is it? I know this is an old thread but I'm talking to dave thomas right now about picking up one of his modded 460s and I'm very curious to talk to someone who's used one.

What do you think? Is it really really nice? or just sort of "well it's another mic"?

Don Kelley

I recently purchased the T-Bone SCT 800 aka (SE 5500/Feilo 5500) and the T-Bone Sc 1100 aka (SE Z3300/Feilo Z3300/NTEC Z3300) I have two of each. They are in my opinion some of the best microphones in the world bar none at any price point. A couple of disgruntled engineers from Neumann who were fired after Sennheiser bought out Neumann went to China and helped develop these two very fine mics and a slew of others for FEILO China. They far surpass IMO the U87i and the SCT 800/SE 5500 is as good as the AKG C12.

Am selling my Rode mics as a result

I know this may be stretching it for you first time readers of this post. But check out these reviews:

There is a vocal sample of the T-Bone SCT 800

um, correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't that an exact double post you just did?

:)

benjikan wrote: I recently purchased the T-Bone SCT 800 aka (SE 5500/Feilo 5500) and the T-Bone Sc 1100 aka (SE Z3300/Feilo Z3300/NTEC Z3300) I have two of each. They are in my opinion some of the best microphones in the world bar none at any price point. A couple of disgruntled engineers from Neumann who were fired after Sennheiser bought out Neumann went to China and helped develop these two very fine mics and a slew of others for FEILO China. They far surpass IMO the U87i and the SCT 800/SE 5500 is as good as the AKG C12.

Am selling my Rode mics as a result

I know this may be stretching it for you first time readers of this post. But check out these reviews:

There is a vocal sample of the T-Bone SCT 800