Skip to main content

Hey guys, I just purchased an Ashly XR 1001 unit with the intention of using it in a 3-way mono old school setup trying to get back the sound I had back in the 80s. I have used analog xovers in the past but to be quite honest, I would simply set everything to where it sounded good to me and that was that but now I would like to understand the basics if you guys can help me with this please?

First let's start with the other equipment I will be connecting to this oxer? My rack is full so I am intending on using 2 Crown 3600's, one for bass and the other, one channel for mids and the other channel for highs. My Stanton RM80 Mixer will connect to the xover. The speakers are Sonic Dual 18 subs:

http://www.sonicspe…"]Sonic R218 Sub[/]="http://www.sonicspe…"]Sonic R218 Sub[/]

and the old school Peaveys SP2:

(Dead Link Removed)

I have attached a screenshot of the 3-way mono setup taken from the guide. First step is setting the low frequency, since the sub's info is
40 - 7khz, 102 db 1w/1m, I am thinking to run this sub somewhere between 40-100hz? What's the best frequency Range setting for this and also which setting is best for the "Response" setting and why please so I can understand it"?

Attached files


audiokid Fri, 10/04/2013 - 11:40

In a rush I will jump in first and ramble a bit. I'm sure others will find this topic a fun one. Live sound is where I started.
I'm assuming we are talking live sound here or PA or passive full range monitoring?

Nice cabinet. I'd be rolling that baby off starting at 250hz. I love front loaded cabs like this.

If people think mixing in a studio is hard, you need to try live sound lol. Thats where you get your chops. And this is why once again, I say gear ( the right gear) matters.

Besides skill, equipment always makes the band sound bad, good, better or best!
If you don't have great gear to shape or control the sound of any room, you are going to work your ass off to say the least. The band suffers everytime the sound sucks. And, the audience rarely blames the room or sound man.

In the 70/80's X-overs were my best friend and this is why in a nutshell.
I used these and other x-overs for 2 decades (70's 80's and into the 90's).

You usually start out by setting x-overs to the specs of the woofer/driver/tweeter and the cabinet design first, then, tweak each section to taste which is varied from room to room and cabinet.
Standard stetting were usually:
low = 250hz @ 12db slope,
mids= > 1.2 k ,
high ( tweeters), vary dependent on what you are using.

Once I got my chops up and could handle a bigger rig, I moved to a front loaded 4 way stereo systems with 31 band graphs on each point.
So at my best game I had 6 Yamaha 31 for the FOH, gates on channels and a few comp on the 2-bus. Thats when it got fun. The graphs where pretty flat but there to catch peaks or tweaks.

Speakers and woofer will start to roll off at sweet points and that's where you set them.

31 band graphs are useful to tweak the roll off hump where both speakers meet but you can also use the cross-over to go past this sweet spot to get a different or optimized approach to rolling. Blending the roll-off via the 12/18/24 db slope is another way as well. So, these x-overs were really flexible.

Between all your settings, choose the best ways to keep your sound even and natural with less eqing. If you are needing a lot of eqing, to me more than 3db was my rule, you may have a bad mix or something needing addressing in the console or stage.

Your volumes and freq area of each speaker is another area to adjust and this is a critical adjustment as well. The key is to get the PA all balanced where you aren't using excessive eqing. Using a good mix from a CD was another reference.

From room to room, I pretty much leave the mix in the console and go to the x-overs ( freq points, roll-of curve and volumes) first before I touch my mix. That is of course, once its mixed right.
The console mix is the last place I tweak. If the mix sounds great example on studio monitors, that pretty mush tells me that the PA is where I go. But, if a CD sound great on the PA, then the console mix and stage volumes need more care.
Gates and volume of the band is also another huge factor so make sure you deal with the stage.
Man, lots of things to discuss on this thread.

Does that help?

mikehende Fri, 10/04/2013 - 13:17

Yeah, that is a lot of info for me to absorb all at once , first thing, this is for my Home rig which I use in my Garage and backyard and is not for live band sound, only for DJ type or playback use. Let's start with the low's settings please? Wouldn't a setting of 250hz be more suitable for mid-bass rather than low end?

audiokid Fri, 10/04/2013 - 13:56

Perfect response :)

Sorry, I didn't look at your whole set-up while I'm doing a bunch of other things here in the process, so I gave you a bunch of info to start. You brough me back to the old days and I got all excited lol!

The image is a bit small for my old eyes but this is the skinny for setting up the sound with that unit.
Keep your amp(s) wide open and use the x-over volumes (Mains) for adjusting each cabinet. Make sense?

Put the low point at around 250hz and adjust the main volume until it sounds smooth.
Same for the mids.

The freq adjustment you see is for the notch , where it starts to drop in volume and how wide it reaches on either side of that point. Its a notch filter. The wider it is, the more bass will travel into the mids. So, you get a big bump there which doesn't sound good when the bass cabinet goes past 250 hz. Use your ears for that and use the main volume to control how much bass is being amplified.

This is a hard thing to describe but you need to use your ears. If its really boomy, its too much of something. If you are getting too much feedback, turn the volume down. Once you have the volume under control, use the low/mid freq filter to shape the cutoff point. This section "tightens" up the bass. Play a bass ( a keyboard sine wave works great) and listen to where the peaks jump out. Its a process of using all these pots to get the sound smooth and proficient.

Is this helping?

audiokid Fri, 10/04/2013 - 14:18

mikehende, post: 407606 wrote: Yeah, that is a lot of info for me to absorb all at once , first thing, this is for my Home rig which I use in my Garage and backyard and is not for live band sound, only for DJ type or playback use. Let's start with the low's settings please? Wouldn't a setting of 250hz be more suitable for mid-bass rather than low end?

Ya, up to 250 hz or so... Your sound will be smooth. If you want that sub, I would still x it over there and invest in a graph that will push the 40hz. Then use the mid to go up to 1.2, then let that horn do the rest. Thats what I would do.

audiokid Fri, 10/04/2013 - 14:59

But, do not select +10. That to me would be adding zero's. My guess is when you are in Mono mode and in Normal, the X-Over is now a 3 way mono and the left and righr sides become the low mids and highs. Automatically defaulting to 40hz. But, I could be wrong.
The sound should be very obvious. The sound will go from being boomy to THUMP!

audiokid Fri, 10/04/2013 - 15:22

added a bit so I re posted.

The Response Range will go from 6 to 24 db per octave drop. More drastic (24 db) will put more direct energy within the range to that speaker. This is a good or bad adjustment that is also determined ( good better best), and should be set to the specs of the speaker and... the enclosure. But, rules are meant to be broken so depending on the effect you are going for, you may want to use those bins for subs around ( 40 to 120) persay. If your mids are crapping out though, you will want to re-leave them by raising more low end energy into the subs. less into the mids.

These x-overs are great and I prefer them over the more digital ones because they are smooooth and logical, very adjustable. They are simple, easy to dial in and leave or control a lot of things as I mentioned in my first post. Make sense?

To answer your question, I don't know much about the other you mention but I do know a lot about these. I personally prefer these but there is newer technology including very advanced time delays that is a whole new topic.

I say keep this. Ashley has always been a winner. These will teach you how to listen.

audiokid Fri, 10/04/2013 - 15:31

To add, The bins look nice but I've never been a fan of those other cabs, especially the horns. Old gen Peavy horns are pretty nasty. When you can, upgrade those.

Also, Mono these days isn't the best route either. Especially if you are playing CD that were mixed stereo. You are going to be summing stereo into mono and a whole other pile of problems are going to occur. The bass and majority of electronic music is going to get all goofy to say the least. Stereo is the the only way to go.

research stereo wideners and mono/ phase issues. A huge percentage of mixes today are bending the rules. Engineers are using goofy plugins to widen tracks that will not sum properly in mono.


dvdhawk Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:02

Just to clarify one thing, that is a ÷ division sign, not a + plus sign above the Range button. And as you've figured out, when the range button is pressed, it divides the frequency by 10. Instead of sweeping from 400 to 8k, it's 40 to 800 (as indicated in parentheses) with the button pushed and LED lit.

And in mono 3-way mode you follow the words in parentheses below the gain knobs - left to right (Low) / (Mid) on Channel 1 and the (High) on Channel 2. The back panel would be marked the same way.

And despite advice to the contrary, there's no shame it backing the amp down on the channel you're going to use to drive those old horns. If you're talking about a 1500w/ch @ 4Ω Crown Macrotech 3600 into those old Peavey horns, I'd try to find a happy-medium between the (High) output on the Ashley and the Volume of the Crown. Otherwise those Peavey voicecoils might shoot across the room like a red-hot copper party streamer. You could run a good pair of horns all day on a tenth that much power. For example we used to have a Crown D150 running two pairs of JBL horns 2440/2441 vs. thousands of watts of Crest and Carver on the subs & low-mids. I'm not suggesting you need to buy another amp, I'm just saying don't be afraid to back off the horn channel.

mikehende Sat, 10/05/2013 - 04:27

Thanks for the info! Well yes, I remember back in the day when I was building my first 3-way mono rig using an X20 Phase Linear xover made by Bob Carver, I had used a 40 watt Kenwood receiver to push the highs alone.
To touch on what audiokid mentioned, yes, that will be something for me to see if I can get that 70s/80s sound back with this equipment while running digitized music from my computer, will let you guys know the result whenever I get the chance to do the experimenting, should be able to do next Saturday. Meantime guys, if the response knob's purposes is to manage the transition between the low and mid signals as far as I am being told, how would I know where to set this? Is this something only your ear would tell you or is there a number I can work with please?

audiokid Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:04

As always, nice response Dave.

The manual (and Dave) may explain this better than me but yes, experiment with that. It controls how tight the roll off is between the crossover points.
I touched on some of this in that first post. It's a very useful feature that revolves around the entire way you can shape a PA which I get very technical over but only in person. Its the bomb when you understand things after a few years working live sound with one of these. Basically, use your ears. You'll hear what it does in time. :)

dvdhawk Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:28

I can't for the life of me image a scenario where I would want the Slope set to 2dB / Octave. Typical crossovers (active or passive) are designed to be more in the range of 12dB, 18dB, or 24dB per Octave. So I'm going to guess that the Slope is not variable, and the "Response" is some secret sauce Ashley has added to tailor the way it transitions from above and below the crossover point. (smoothly or more pronounced) At least that's what I get from their pictograph. Twiddle the knob to your heart's content, you can't do any harm with the Response knob.

The Frequency and Range settings, however, can cause catastrophic speaker (horn) failure pretty quickly. That's especially true with the kind of high-power amps you're talking about using. Make sure you double-check the settings and all of your connections before you power things up. Be sure the Range is in "Norm" and the horn crossover at 1k or above.

There have been numerous versions of the SP2. Later generations, had higher power handling and (not coincidentally) raised the crossover point.

If it were me bi-amping that particular version of SP2 you linked to on eBay:

STEP 1) Those horns will allegedly go down to 800Hz, but they'll sound a lot better if they don't try to work that low and they probably don't have much above 12k. I'd start with the mid/high crossover point at 1kHz to 1.2kHz and the sub/mid point as low as it will go. (which is 40Hz in your case to start and don't turn up the subs yet). And the Response at 6, since it appears to be Ashley's default recommendation (the picture I'm looking at has bolder markings at Unity on the Outputs and 6 on the Response)

STEP 2) Balance the (High) and (Mid) Outputs until the horn and 15" in the SP2 sound like the fullrange cabinet it's supposed to be. If you have an RTA analyzer and source for pink noise that can help with the coarse adjustments, but this will all come down to what sounds best to you in your given environment.

STEP 3) THEN AFTER you've got the SP2 sounding as good as you can, introduce the sub. Your sub cabinet can theoretically go up to 7kHz, but it's most efficient doing the animal low-end. I'd try between 80Hz and 120Hz if the Peavey's sound good on their own. If the sub is dominating the PV 15, you might want to give some more of the low-end to the sub by raising the crossover above 120Hz.

*If you would have dialed up the sub crossover point back in Step 1, you would have had a much harder time making the SP2 sound balanced because it would have been depriving the 15" in the PV of frequencies below the set frequency. That's why I would do that last.

Twiddle away, have fun. Just know that trying to send really high frequencies out of mids and woofers won't hurt a thing. They can do that surprisingly well. But, accidentally sending the horns frequencies that are below their liking can burn out their diaphragm in a heartbeat.

Best of luck.

audiokid Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:38

"Response" is some secret sauce Ashley has added to tailor the way it transitions from above and below the crossover point.

Indeed and also adapted with some other x-overs:

The Response setting, well all those settings on this type of design is the bomb for me but it took a few years working live sound (with that Ashly feature) before I started appreciating what it offered. Put it this way, I wouldn't want to be without that but I also admit, I'm old school and unfamiliar with the current PA gear.

mikehende Mon, 10/21/2013 - 04:47

Well guys, I was finally able to hook up the xover but only 2 way stereo as looks like something is wrong with my 2nd amp so I will switch to 3-way mono when I get that amp checked. Yes, I am getting exactly what need out of this xover and you guys called it right, as Hawk predicted as soon as I touch the amp's volume knob on the mid/highs, the speakers are already at high power and as audiokid predicted the horn's highs get very easily distorted so guys to address these 2 issues mentioned:

1] Regarding proper volume setting on my entire system, here's the situation, since I play back music from my laptop, I always have my laptop's output at 75%, I do the same for my Stanton mixer which has both a master and line gain so I set both to 75% and control the entire system's volume via the mixer's line slider from whichever line my laptop is plugged into as the attachment shows so this leaves the amp and xover. Any recommendations on a fixed setting for both input and output settings on the oxver and also for the amp?

2] Regarding the horn drivers, with my previous peavey tops which was the Impulse 200, I had replaced them with Selenium D220i drivers but one guy told me the best horn driver for these horns may be an Atlas horn driver? I think this horn driver issue will be key when I switch to 3-way mono, any recommendations please?

Attached files