Yeah thats my goal when it comes to putting together my little studio. I'd rather have 6 channels of mackie pres that I spent $400 on then spend a grand on a couple cheap pres that im going to outgrow at some point anyway. Same goes for mics. From now on if i need more mics or something I'm putting the small amount of money i have in more 57's, 421's and re20's. Even if a cheap chinese condensor might sound a little better, once i own a couple Neumanns and royers the chinese condensors would never be used but ill still keep coming back to those trusty dynamics. Oh well time to keep saving up for the spider.

By the way if you do buy anything DONT get the lower line dbx pres.

Originally posted by jeronimo:
Has anyone tried any of those? Or can comment anything about those?
dbx 386, HHB Radius10, Presonus MP20 or ART Tube Pre Amp System or DIO Tube Pre Amp System.
Thanks

Skip the dbx, run from the HHb, try the Presonus (I've heard good things), try the ART that was the first outboard pre we ever had. I still like for some things. It definitely sounds different than a Mackie (which I was mixing on when we got the ART), I like the low mid on the ART.

My $.02

Bear, I don't have the Mackie anymore, don't ask me why, but I sold it and got an old Tascam M-2524. Well, all I can say about the Tascam vs. Mackie: the 1st has better eqs and the second has quieter pres. But, I do like the Tascam, it's quieter than my MXL 603s :) .
I understand about running away from the entry-level gear, but let me try to explain what's going on with me. I'm from Brazil, and I'm living here on the US for a year and a half now. I don't have a lot of money, I just deliver pizzas in the area here, but, I plan to go back home soon and make my own small studio, believe me, the prices hourly there are cheap compared with L.A. for example :) but is enought to make a living. And we need good "labor" over there in my city. There are very good studios and very bad studios (loaded with Alesis stuff i.e.) so I just want to sit between. I can't think about anyone that can lend me his "manley" EQ, or his 1176...
But thanks for the input, I DO LOVE THIS FORUM! Ohh, and by the way, what is the MP model you have in your studio Tony?

Originally posted by jeronimo:
I just want to sit between. I can't think about anyone that can lend me his "manley" EQ, or his 1176... Then shop around wisely. If you are going to sit between the 'real' and the 'Alesis' studios, you will mostly be doing overdubs. So get yourself one pair of 'good' mic preamps - if you can't get Great River, get a Sytek at least, and put all the 'important' sounds through it. Harvey does similar stuff in his studio and stuff that comes out of it sounds great.

1176 is great, I bet (never seen one, there are zero of them in the country where I live), but you can do a lot with an RNC. So get one. Or two - at times (most) you want to track bass with both DI and amp micing, so two compressors with separate controls won't hurt...

About Manley Massive - I've heard that it could evoke sensations similar to orgasm - hard not to be dreaming about that unit, it looks sexy aswell, but... yes, it ain't cheap. But you can check on Mercenary site for a pair of Speck equalizers. They aren't cheap either but they have racked about only praisals everywhere I read.

You are on the States - a luxury I don't have, so you have all the best gear in the world literally over the corner. Shop around for discounts, shop around for used gear. Use what means you have in your disposal - I dwelled and dwelled on "should I buy an V67 or should I not, or maybe the cheap Behringer condenser (the only chinese condenser we have available over here), or should I save up for a TLM 103 (which I liked very much)", until I heard that a local studio owner, friend of mine, is looking for selling a couple of U87's. The price was about $800, it was $900 more I could spare at the time, but I still thought about it for only about 5 minutes ant told him I want it.

Fletcher said the golden words - have patience. When buying stuff, have all the time in the world - and when you know that 'this is the deal' then act quickly. Don't just rummage around buying stuff that you won't be needing all that much later anyway, but try to build a cushion for yourself that you will need when this deal comes in front of you.

Arnie, I don't plan to do mostly overs, but... I plan to track drums and everything else... so, I thought to have one of those 'cheap' mp to use as DI (most of them can) and to use for vocals, since the mps on my console aren't that good. I do understand about saving for the right time, but, if I go back home w/o some gear (that I can buy) I'll probably need to save money for the rest of my life :) . Right now 1 american dollar worth almos 3 of my currency and over that, the gear back there is 2 almost 3 times the price here (in dollars) :eek: !

Originally posted by jeronimo:
Arnie, I don't plan to do mostly overs, but... I plan to track drums and everything else... so, I thought to have one of those 'cheap' mp to use as DI (most of them can) and to use for vocals, since the mps on my console aren't that good.My point is - have at least two good channels of mic pre's around, 4 is better but 2 is also OK, and console. Use good pres for kick, snare and overheads when possible, and the pre's on the console for toms and such. Also, maybe something like Meek Vc3/6 is worth looking at - great as a bass DI, rather clean preamp, surprisingly useful 3-band EQ and a weird compressor.

I do understand about saving for the right time, but, if I go back home w/o some gear (that I can buy) I'll probably need to save money for the rest of my life :) . Right now 1 american dollar worth almos 3 of my currency and over that, the gear back there is 2 almost 3 times the price here (in dollars) :)

If you arent going to spend much on mic pres theres really no point in buying them unless you just need more channels. Your sound would improve more by buying some decent mics then mic pres in the 300 to 500 dollar range (the joe meek is cool for what it does though). The cheapest thing that I've heard that sounds decent is the sytek 4 channel. Maybe get a used one and a couple rnc's. If you go get a bunch of dbx, hhb and art mic pres your sound wont be much better then all the guys with alesis stuff. You would imagine that if a $800 a channel pre sounded awesome and the pre in your console cost you about $50 a channel that something in the $300 a channel would sound somewhere between the two. But its not and it sucks when all you can afford is the cheap stuff. But the cheapest thing you can do in the long run is save your money and buy quality.

Hey Planet Red, I really liked your theory man! It's the 1st one that really, really, opened my eyes. Thanks!

I've found myself in a similar situation. I live in Asuncion, Paraguay (hey there, neighbor - when you go back to Brasil).

I decided to stick with the Mackie pres I got (the new ones) until I can afford something worthy of purchase. I was thinking about the MP20 myself...It might take me busting my balls trying to earn money for a great river or some apis or even focusrites, etc etc..., but if that is what I need to do to improve the weakest links in my chain, then that is what I need to do.

It might very well be the case that a lot of those Alesis studios, in a year or 2, will have purchased some sort of hi-quality gear that you will have to compete with. If you can manage saving the money you'd spend on either one of the units you were interested in (which means NOT touching the $$$) you might soon have a chance to somehow get something that will kick half of your competitors' asses in Brasil.

I am working on that right here. :cool: Not there yet, but going for it, slow and steady.

It makes me have to work around limitations and be inventive about what I am doing, sometimes I just need to develop new sounds so it becomes special to whoever I am recording...

What format do you record to, by the way?

Juergen

The ART and dbx stuff doesn't sound better then a Mackie. It's just different. If your between the Alesis filled rooms and the high end places you might want to look into getting a few pres in the $1000-$1500 a pair range. I have a Presonus MP-20 and it's not too bad but I don't think I'd want to have it as my "big money" pre. The Peavey VMP-2 is pretty cool and not all that expensive. The Sytek would also be a good choice as would a Great River. If I could only have three flavors I'd probably want the Joe Meek, the VMP-2 and either the Sytek or Great River depending on what I can afford. In the long run, you'll just be throwing your money away on most of the other stuff.

The only "cheap" preamp I've tried that I like is the Joe Meek stuff like the VC6. While it's not great on everything it can be fun on guitars, bass and sometimes vocals. Someone else mentioned the solid state Telefunken stuff. That might be a good route to go but it's not cheap. A single module will run about $350-500 and then you need to get a box, power supply, I/O connectors, and possibly recap which can add a few hundered to the price.

Hello Juergen, man, is good to know that I have a neighbor around here!! Cool! Well, you guys really changed my mind! Thanks for all the inputs. I record on digital. The recordings I did here in the US where done thru a rented AD8K going digital into the 001, but I'll take an ADI 8 Pro back home. I'm trying to find out how the new Hammerfalls DSP sound with the Multiface interface :)

We have the ART Pro MPA. The 2 channel 2 space VU meter guy (we have the comp too). They both still get used even though the console has been upgraded, and we've bought some high end pres (VoxBox and Great River) Like anything, they are a color.

Thanks drum sound... this unit is the2u unit right? And guys, the VC 6 looks good for the price... thanx for the tip! What about the VC 3?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeronimo:
[QB]Thanks drum sound... this unit is the2u unit right?

Yep, 2u 2 channel

Hi Jeronimo, I would agree with the Peavey VMP 2, not a prestige name but sounds good and is relatively cheap. You might also find a Symetrix SX202 for around $200 used. They are a 2 channel unit (now discontinued) and I would rate them better than a mackie but perhaps not quite a sytek. There have also been rumors of "Real Nice Mic Preamp" by the same company that does the RNC though it may still be a while before it is available. As far as the Multiface goes, I dont think you will find an opinion on it as it wont be shipping for at least a few weeks. Spec-wise it does not look as good as the ADI-8 as supposedly the converter chips are of lesser quality. You can find more info on this by reading the RME newsgroup accessable from their web page.

How do I access the bulletin board at RME? I tried but looks like I need some extra application...

Has anyone bought from http://www.musicians-gear.com?
It seems almost too good to be true! Prices are literally half those of UK dealers.

jeronimo.
FWIW, I don't know which Mackie board you had, but, I once checked out the Sytek pres and compared them to the pres in a newer Mackie board (with XDR pres) and to my ears they were really close, really clean (but boring) :roll:

I gotta plug this, 'cause they don't get mentioned nearly as often as they should:

John Hardy Mic Pres!

First of all, they sound amazing, on par with Great River and the like. Second, they are priced right in between that rift that exists between prosumer and the best stuff. The four channel power supply is ~$525 with each channel costing $350. I bought a two channel unit for a little over a grand, but now I can get two more channels whenever I want for only $700, as it's all modular. It's the best four channels you'll ever hear for under 2k.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bear's Gone Fission:
Tony, about that Sytek/Mackie comparison, were they both auditioned through the Mackie board? That could well have flattened out the difference. The new Mackie pres aren't horrible, and the Syteks aren't wonderful, so I don't doubt that there could be little practical difference in the right real world application, but if the listening was done after the Mackie board's mix bus in the chain, well, that's right next to the eq the worst part of the board. I'm curious whether that's it or the Mackie pre's are in fact that good if you cut the rest of the board loose.
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Hey Bear, how’s it goin,
I did the comparison a while ago, a friend of mine had a Sytek (four channels I think it was) and brought it over so we could AB them. Aside from live listening we recorded a vocal and acoustic guitar track ( using a U87 and an SM81) to Digital Performer, once through the Sytek > to HD and then again through a Mackie pre. > to HD. When using the Mackie pre I tapped the pre at the insert (bypassing the channels eq etc,) We thought the pres were really close. If anything the Sytek was just a little clearer, but not enough for me to get the Sytek. I figured I’d wait to get some hi end pres. NEITHER ONE sounds anything like a Great River MP-2NV running through a Speck EQ though, even if I gotta live on beans for a while..... :roll:

I like mackie pres. I even think they are as good as many cheap pres out there.

I've used some pretty good midrange preamps. Joemeek vc6q, symetrix 528, m-audio dmp2 etc but none of them touches the sytek mpx4a. The sytek has a definition and focus and "niceness" that I just fall in love with everytime I record through it. Recording an sm58 with the sytek is the best I ever heard an sm58 sound.

sucks eating ramen doesnt it? the spider better be worth it for me. I never new the john hardy pres were that cheap. I was at the studio that i apprentice at and someone brought them in and they sounded pretty clean.