Depends on what your budget and needs actually are....

I'm a big fan of Audient boxes for this kind of thing and use ASP880 for this (alongside other boxes)....I've got one of the original Octopres somewhere in the gear store but I only ever used the onboard dynamics on the was in once in about 7 years...

+1 on audient. Focusrite isa also has a digital out option.

I've used the octo pre quite a bit, and my boss also has the octo pre dynamic at the other studio. He describes the dynamics knob as the 'suck knob'. lol doesn't like it.

One thing to keep in mind w Adat I/o is channel count gets reduced if you use higher than base sample rates 44.1/48, so this is something to keep in mind if your 88.2/96k or above.

As far as using other interfaces, it depends on if your Mac or PC and or if the expansion interface has a standalone mode allowing operation without a commuter connection. Windows ( drivers) doesn't allow you to 'aggregate' interfaces by default so your software would only recognize one interface at a time, which may or may not be a problem depending on the modes and drivers of the interface. Asio4all is a Windows audio driver that allows aggregation.

what samp rate will you be recording at? i have 2 ai3's i want to unload.

I have a Focusrite 56 and had an octopre that I sold. The preamps don't have much gain and the sweet spot aim more toward hi gained mics. With dynamics mics like the sm57 or sm7 you need a loud source because driving up the gains of the 56 or octopre will be messy.. Also they are not cut for ribbon mics unless they are active.

I had tons of problems with my 56, (preamps mostly) but it might just be that it was a store demo (a big fail I won't reproduce). I now keep the 56 as an headphones amp and will get rid of it when I get a better solution.

Now if you want units with adats, the audients were on my radar for a while and but I settled one the ISAs, with 80db of clean gain with transformer mojo, they are hard to beat for the price.
They have the ISA428 or 828. Yes they are expensive but Worth every penny !!

Some other pristine preamps would be the Grace Design m108 that has adat.

If we come down in price the Focusrite Clarett 8Pre X seems like a better choice than the octopre.

Forgot the MIDAS XL48 too.. ;)

Its mainly for connecting synths and samplers etc. It has to be minimum 8 channels IO.
And it has to be ad/da conversion. Minimum 48Khz preferable 96Khz.

I can get the Saffire 56 for $400 used, or a new ADA8200 for $200

I dont like to spend huge amount of money on this especially since i really dont need high end mic preamps for connecting line level instruments.

What to do? :)

pcrecord, post: 443543, member: 46460 wrote: I have a Focusrite 56 and had an octopre that I sold. The preamps don't have much gain and the sweet spot aim more toward hi gained mics. With dynamics mics like the sm57 or sm7 you need a loud source because driving up the gains of the 56 or octopre will be messy.. Also they are not cut for ribbon mics unless they are active.

I had tons of problems with my 56, (preamps mostly) but it might just be that it was a store demo (a big fail I won't reproduce). I now keep the 56 as an headphones amp and will get rid of it when I get a better solution.

Now if you want units with adats, the audients were on my radar for a while and but I settled one the ISAs, with 80db of clean gain with transformer mojo, they are hard to beat for the price.
They have the ISA428 or 828. Yes they are expensive but Worth every penny !!

Some other pristine preamps would be the Grace Design m108 that has adat.

If we come down in price the Focusrite Clarett 8Pre X seems like a better choice than the octopre.

Was that the MK1 or the MK2 octopre? I've used the mk2 and mostly on drums, but I've occodaionally on room or extra mic, never noticed gain issues, but like I said most of my experience w it is for drums.

Earthless, post: 443546, member: 48963 wrote: Its mainly for connecting synths and samplers etc. It has to be minimum 8 channels IO.
And it has to be ad/da conversion. Minimum 48Khz preferable 96Khz.

I can get the Saffire 56 for $400 used, or a new ADA8200 for $200

I dont like to spend huge amount of money on this especially since i really dont need high end mic preamps for connecting line level instruments.

What to do? :)

I wouldn't get the ada8200. Gain shouldn't be an issue since your using the synths, I'd shoot for the octopre mk2.

It may be more than you were thinking of spending, but you could see if you can find a second-hand RME ADI-8DS (or the lesser-featured [[url=http://[/URL]="https://www.rme-aud…"]ADI-8PRO[/]="https://www.rme-aud…"]ADI-8PRO[/]).

There is no da conversion on the octopre mk2:(

Earthless, post: 443552, member: 48963 wrote: There is no da conversion on the octopre mk2:(

Good call. I've never needed DA on the pre amp so it didn't even dawn on me.

Thanks for the correction!!

Very difficult to decide because of the tight budget at the moment.
Initially i was considering the ferrofish, but cant afford it.

Budget roof is around $400 so i might go for the saffire 56, which gives good value.

kmetal, post: 443548, member: 37533 wrote: Was that the MK1 or the MK2 octopre? I've used the mk2 and mostly on drums, but I've occodaionally on room or extra mic, never noticed gain issues, but like I said most of my experience w it is for drums.

It was the octopre MK2. You're right with loud instruments like drums it's ok. I had it for 2 months, did 1 project and sold it.

Earthless, post: 443559, member: 48963 wrote: Budget roof is around $400 so i might go for the saffire 56, which gives good value.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubeOpto8 maybe ? (has 48khz only)

If you go with the saffire, you still need to plug it once with FireWire to set it to stand alone and route all preamps to the adat outputs. once done, it's like an octopre, but bulkier ;)
If quality is not an issue, I'd go with the Behringer ADA8200 at 200$

The Saffire 18i20 has 8x8 adda as well as a separate 2ch speaker out and adat. It's 499 but has some potentially useful features. They'll probably be on sale. It's got great latency specs for the class. And updated conversion.

If you can grab it on sale it's probably better than the Safire 56 or any of the others.

Marcos experience w the saffire 56 scares me.

The extra speaker and headphone outs could be useful for jamming.

Just throwing it out there becuase it's something I was personally considering before i decided on a pcie based unit.

The scarlett seems like a good option, ill check it out. Thanks.

When expanding with 8 IO over adat i have to sync the devices via wordclock, right?

I notice the Scarlett Saffire 18i20 only have wordclock out, meaning i have to use it as master when syncing to the rme ufx, maybe not the best option.
Shouldnt i have the ufx as master?

Earthless, post: 443578, member: 48963 wrote: When expanding with 8 IO over adat i have to sync the devices via wordclock, right?

I notice the Scarlett Saffire 18i20 only have wordclock out, meaning i have to use it as master when syncing to the rme ufx, maybe not the best option.
Shouldnt i have the ufx as master?

You can sync via adat. No need for BNC cable if you only have 2 units to sync together.
Check the manual to confirm if you can put the RME as master with ADAT...

It's not easy using one complete audio interface as the ADAT expander for another, as both would naturally want to be wordclock master. In this case, either of the RME and the Saffire can sync to an incoming ADAT bitstream, and the question comes down to which gives the better local conversion quality when externally clocked. The answer to that is almost certainly the RME, but the thing to do would be to avoid using the ADAT data connection as the clock source. To achieve that, use the Saffire on its local clock and run a 75 Ohm BNC cable from its wordclock out to the wordclock in connector on the RME FF800, with the 75 Ohm terminator switch set on. Sync the FF800 to its BNC wordclock input.

If you could pick one, regardless of price, for line inputs and conversion. Saffire 56 or ada8200?

Of what I heard of the 8200 and experienced with the 56 ..
I guess the 8200 would be my choice in your position... less things can go wrong with a unit made to be preamp addition compared to full audio interface you need to plugged in to the computer to setup..
I honestly can't say which of the 2 has better preamp and convertion. . . Instinct goes to the Focusrite.. but we'd need an A/B test to compare...

Best of luck to you Earthless ;)

Thanks, guess i have to pick something and try out see how it goes. The huge bonus that comes with the saffire 56 is that it gives me 16 channels of 48Khz or 8 channels of 96Khz and even 4 channels 192Khz. More in the same league as the UFX, although the conversion is probably not that good its good enough i guess.

Having more I/O doesn't make the saffire more in the same league... RME is way more advanced than focusrite when it comes to make drivers, realtime mixing, preamps and general build quality. I'm using a used Fireface 800 that I bought from a member her.. it must be 10years old and my jaw droped when I compared it to the 56. I was like comparing a amateur toy with a profesionnal tool.

It's very sad that you don't have the budget or you are not willing to wait to buy something more professionnal..
I've been there, I wasted a lot of money on cheap gear because I was in a hurry to get there. With all the videos saying you don't need expensive gear to have a great sound. You'd wonder, right ? The thing is, the first time I tried a professionnal preamp, my brain splitted !! Dawm them for saying this.
Yes, you can record with cheap gear but you'll work your ass off to make it sound ok when mixing.
With highend preamps, you may get a similar sound but it's 10 times more easy to mix.
I'll give you a specific exemple : when mixing vocals, I would often use up to 6db cut and boost on the EQ and know with better gear, I rarely go beyong 3db. Why so ?? because the sound is fuller and more even. So you have less to do to make a track shine. . .

You say you just want to plug keyboards/synth, right ?
Let me ask you something, are you really using them all at the same time. could you not plug them one by one to record with your RME..
If unpluging them is so anoying, why not using a 100-200$ patch bay ??

Just food for your thoughts ;)

pcrecord, post: 443635, member: 46460 wrote: Having more I/O doesn't make the saffire more in the same league... RME is way more advanced than focusrite when it comes to make drivers, realtime mixing, preamps and general build quality. I'm using a used Fireface 800 that I bought from a member her.. it must be 10years old and my jaw droped when I compared it to the 56. I was like comparing a amateur toy with a profesionnal tool.

It's very sad that you don't have the budget or you are not willing to wait to buy something more professionnal..
I've been there, I wasted a lot of money on cheap gear because I was in a hurry to get there. With all the videos saying you don't need expensive gear to have a great sound. You'd wonder, right ? The thing is, the first time I tried a professionnal preamp, my brain splitted !! Dawm them for saying this.
Yes, you can record with cheap gear but you'll work your ass off to make it sound ok when mixing.
With highend preamps, you may get a similar sound but it's 10 times more easy to mix.
I'll give you a specific exemple : when mixing vocals, I would often use up to 6db cut and boost on the EQ and know with better gear, I rarely go beyong 3db. Why so ?? because the sound is fuller and more even. So you have less to do to make a track shine. . .

You say you just want to plug keyboards/synth, right ?
Let me ask you something, are you really using them all at the same time. could you not plug them one by one to record with your RME..
If unpluging them is so anoying, why not using a 100-200$ patch bay ??

Just food for your thoughts ;)

I took your advice and went for a patchbay instead :)
Until i can afford a good company for the UFX..

A little update on this thread.
Some more questions about expanding the UFX with more IO via adat.

I have an offer on a FF800 and would like to know your opinions on this interface, using it as an adat expander for the UFX. Is this a good choice? Or do i have to save even more money to grab a ADI-8DS?

The fireface 800 is a good interface and the converter is honest.
the interesting thing about it is that it would make you a backup in case the UFX has a problem one day (which I doubt will ever happen because of its built quality)
I don't know how much more money you would need for the ADI, but in my opinion it won't sound much different than the FF800. If I wanted to invest, I'd go for a good preamp unit and maybe one with character.
I don't know if you record live instruments with microphone but even if you only do synth, a preamp like the UA 4-710, is nice because you can dial a clean sound but also craft a dirty sound that can transform a plain synth to an amazing unique sound. (with the sweepable solidstate/tube and the fact that it's very easy to break to distortion. ) The 4-710 has 4 solid/tube preamp and 4 line input to a 8 channels converter and ADAT.
In conclusion, I'd go with the FF800 unless you want to wait for something that will make a difference in the sound...

Earthless, post: 445939, member: 48963 wrote: Some more questions about expanding the UFX with more IO via adat. I have an offer on a FF800 and would like to know your opinions on this interface, using it as an adat expander for the UFX. Is this a good choice? Or do i have to save even more money to grab a ADI-8DS?

The FF800 can be used as an expander via ADAT, but it depends on how many inputs of what type you need as to whether it's the best way to go. The FF800 has 10 analogue inputs, 4 of which have mic pre-amps (2 are mic/line) and 6 further dedicated line inputs. By using the internal routing matrix, any combination of these can be sent to the ADAT outputs. If you are running at 88.2 or 96KHz, you can of course only have 8 channels total going out through the two ADAT ports. So you have to match this up to your requirements, taking account of what other gear you have. If you happen to have 6 channels of spare mic pre-amps with analogue outputs, by using the FF800, you would be set for a further 10 analogue inputs into your UFX.

The alternative is to look for a straight 8-channel pre-amp/converter combo with ADAT outputs. There are very many of these available at a wide range of prices, usually reflecting the quality of the amplification and the converters. If you want something that is in a similar league to the UFX, then you could do worse than considering the Audient ASP880. This product stands out as having balanced insert capability, with the consequent facility of balanced line outputs and also (importantly) direct inputs to the AD converters that by-pass the pre-amps. This means that any number of its channels can be used purely as an AD converter for other external analogue-output pre-amps.

pcrecord, post: 443635, member: 46460 wrote: I'm using a used Fireface 800 that I bought from a member her.. it must be 10years old and my jaw droped when I compared it to the 56. I was like comparing a amateur toy with a profesionnal tool.

When I used say stuff like that, people would throw rocks at me and leave.:LOL: Glad to have another guy here taking the strain off of me. (y)

great advise guys.

audiokid, post: 445943, member: 1 wrote: When I used say stuff like that, people would throw rocks at me and leave.:LOL: Glad to have another guy here taking the strain off of me. (y)

great advise guys.

I'm the first one to admit when I'm wrong, but when I have an opinion it's usually a strong one. We shouldn't be ashame about that !! ;)

Hi Guys

Thanks for the feedback so far, its been really helpful(y)

There is one question i forgot to ask.
When it comes to the totalmix fx capabilities of routing the i/o, like as a digital patchbay.
Will i have the same routing options regardless of which adat expander i get, or do it has to be an RME device that is programmed to understand
the Totalmix Fx software?

TotalMix is an RME product and only runs with their own hardware. Some other interface manufacturers have similar products for their hardware, but I don't know of any that are as versatile and comprehensive as TotalMix.

Boswell, post: 446511, member: 29034 wrote: TotalMix is an RME product and only runs with their own hardware. Some other interface manufacturers have similar products for their hardware, but I don't know of any that are as versatile and comprehensive as TotalMix.

Actually, with my Fireface 800, I see all the inputs and outputs including ADAT channels in Totalmix. So anything connected to those ADAT ports will register in Totalmix and can be used in the realtime mixing. (I use my 8 channels comming from my UA 4-710 within Totalmix all the time) And I use the ADAT output to send audio to my old Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 which I put in standalone mode and use only for headphone mixes...
My channel count with the FF800 looks like this :
18 inputs : 10 analog + 8 inputs via ADAT
16 outputs : 8 analog and 8 Adat

So you can route any input(s) to any output(s), it can't get better than this...

Where Totalmix limits starts is when you add more than one interface directly plugged to the computer. For exemple : Totalmix will see 2 Fireface 800 but you can't route the input of FF800-1 to an output of FF800-2.
And of course you can't use Totalmix if you bought a Scarlett8i8 (Focusrite has Mixwizard that is similar to Totalmix)

Maybe my question wasnt clear enough, but what i meant was that if i want to expand my RME UFX with more I/O via adat,
it doesnt matter if i use a Behringer ADA8200 or a RME ADI 8 DS? I will still have the same routing functions inside Totalmix for those I/O that is
connected via adat, right? I guess you pcrecord has already answered that, but Boswells answer made me uncertain:)

Maybe it was my answer that wasn't clear enough ;)
It doesn't matter what you plug into the ADAT ports. They will still be available in Totalmix with the same routing fonctions.
Boswell was refering to using the software Totalmix with other audio interfaces plugged via USB or FireWire, not via ADAT.

I was refering to setting up the configuration matrix inside an RME device. The matrix lists all the external inputs (analogue, ADAT, S/PDIF etc), all the outputs and all the I/O to/from the computer. It makes no difference what devices you have supplying data to an ADAT or other input.

The comparison was between TotalMix running in an RME product and comparable software products from other manufacturers controlling the setup of their own hardware. I'm sorry if there was confusion caused by my previous post.

Ok, guys. Seems like we got things cleared up (y)

I ended up with a RME ADI 8DS MK3
So far working great with UFX and TotalMix :)

Earthless, post: 446847, member: 48963 wrote: I ended up with a RME ADI 8DS MK3

I owned two ADI 8 QS and the HD 32 AES EBU interface and it was stellar. I would expect these to be the best of RME now. I may get a few of those for my next DAW system. Good move.