I've used vmware, but using BootCamp is generally better. Running two operating systems at the same time taxes your processing power, as well as vmware does not allow windows to see your hardware like soundcard and video card and etc. BootCamp is a more stable (as stable as windows can be) way of using windows on your mac.

To each his own.

Guitarfreak wrote: I've used vmware, but using BootCamp is generally better. Running two operating systems at the same time taxes your processing power, as well as vmware does not allow windows to see your hardware like soundcard and video card and etc. BootCamp is a more stable (as stable as windows can be) way of using windows on your mac.

To each his own.

yes, you can't run audio applications smoothly through fusion. and firewire doesn't work. for something like that boot camp is better. but for smaller applications it's really good because you don't have to restart the computer. and you can exchange files from one os to the other with drag&drop.

yes grab and drop is nice, I liked that also. I use MacDrive, with that your windows partition in BC can read OSX formatted drive and access files directly, eliminating the need for drag and drop redundancy. Not sure if you knew that already, but if you didn't it's pretty cool.

Other than that, having to restart your computer is pretty inconvenient. :?

FWIW, I've been using my PC for 4 years non-stop - no re-installs, no BSODs, never even a crash. Built it myself and runs like a champ.

I only now built my most recent box for portability's sake. The old one's still in service and does the heavy lifting in the studio.

It's XP Pro.

Re: Are pro audio boutique PC's better for recording

Good to hear your success cucco. I'll bumb this question I asked a while back.

audiokid wrote:

The next big question here... Are pro audio boutique PC's like example: ADK any better at handling Windows for recording?

or, are they over rated and we can all build our own like cucco has done?

They have their place - if you're not comfortable building the PC, configuring the OS, etc...
Also, presumably, those guys know which fans are quieter, which FW cards work better, etc.

I've built all of my computers since 94 - I can't justify the extra $2K for a tweaked computer that I can build.

J.

What type of case do you use? Steel, plastic, aluminum?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147100

FYI -
The 120 MM fans in this case are dead silent as is - no need for special fans. They're quieter than $25 a piece Nexxus fans!

Interesting topic.

I've heard aluminum is the best. It distribute heat better than steel and plastic. Result is less need for fans running fast. The steel ADK I have is a noisy pig, where the less expensive aluminum RAIN I have is sooooo quite and efficient. I'm a believer from that POV.

For PC, why are you having such luck with your PC cucco? Others are having terrible problems.

I only run audio on it...ever. I don't do anything else.
Also, I defrag regularly.
Also, I keep it clean (dust...)

I've got 8 computers in active service - all built by me.

My oldest is an AMD 350 that's running Win 2K Advanced Server. It's on all day every day and has been for many years. No crashes, minimal restarts (monthly patches) and NEVER reinstall Windows. (Well, I took it from WIN98 to 2K but that's it)

I can't possibly imagine any reason why people's machines are doing this!

I have a Dell C800 from 2001 - it still works fine.

The only computer in my home that has gotten as slow as molasses is my wife's desktop. (She's got 2 laptops and 2 desktops - the crappy desktop and the high-end photo desktop).

Her crappy desktop has about 5 different toolbars in IE, every kind of crappy shareware you can imagine and never gets updated, defragged or cache cleared. It's a piece of crap and it's slow.

BTW - on a case that large, I can't imagine a cooling issue.

The aluminum cases should be a lot lighter!

I believe the aluminum simply attracts the heat and dissipates it so much better, all over the system. End result less fan need and cooler components. And, a priority for studios... Quieter and cooler everything. This helps when the PC is under stress I guess. It makes sense. Id love to get a few designers here to talk about this but the good ones seem to avoid public forums.

I think one of the main objectives for production PC's it to AVOID the internet. Have one for surfing and updating and the production, strictly for audio. You are having great luck cucco.

Yeah, I'm good with the principals of aluminum, however, I don't really buy it in this application. Metal of all types are good conductors of heat, however, given that the computer is a convection system with venting and ventilation, the level of heat required to over heat a processor even with minimal cooling won't have a significant impact using either metal. If the case were in direct contact with the heat sources, then yea, it would make a pretty big difference.

If you really want the best solution - aluminum and copper sandwiches. Iron would work well too...

My new PC (the rackmount one) is dead quiet. In my room with an ambient noise level of 18dB, I can barely hear the PC at a distance of 3 feet. I could even make it quieter, but I put 1 extra 80mm fan in to bring the CPU temp down from 59 degrees under heavy load to 55 degrees.

Cheers-
J

Seems OSX wins for stability ,however I like what a member said about how you can build a PC very specific to just audio. Mac is Mac. This is where I'm beginning to lean toward PC more than I have ever before.

Are the new Power Macs aluminum?

I'm going to find more in depth answers to the case concept. Its an interesting part to the equation.

I have to say that I have never had a dedicated audio PC crash on me. My desktop machine is still an AMD 2500 and I also use two other laptops. XP pro, Vista Ult, and Win 7. Vista is a pig but no real issues inre recording audio. I don't ever record higher than 88.2 or 96 so maybe that is a factor. I have a third laptop that is my utility internet machine etc but it doesn't crash on me either. My pda phone on the other hand....

Hey John,

I have an AMD 64 bit Octo core 2 loaded with 16 gig ram coming for a test run this month. It will be loaded with Sonar 8 ( not to excited about Sonar but who knows, I may like it in time...) It has Vista and I won't be hooking it up to the net at all. I'll be comparing that beast with an Intel 965 3.2 i7 running 32 XP pro . I'm told 64 bit sounds quite a bit better than 32 bit.

Anyone try the Pepsi challenge with 32 vs 64 yet?

I have five computers here - 2 XP Pro machines and 3 Macs.

I can't vote because I do my audio, (currently PT LE) on an old G4 running OS9 - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Nearly everything else important is done on OSX.

The PCs are for very specific (relatively simple) tasks and on any given day, I could be coaxed into throwing one of them out the window.

I'm not one of those guys who goes out preaching 'don't buy a pc'. I'm not a mac-evangelist, it's not for everyone. It costs a little more upfront, but it works when I turn it on - what's that worth? A friend of mine in professional graphics runs several machines - all Windows, and when he needs a new peripheral it will sit in the box for months - because he can't afford the almost inevitable downtime if there's a glitch - and he's no slouch with debugging that sort of thing. When I get a new device it's usually up and running before the UPS truck has made it out the driveway- what's that worth? I have to use both platforms out of necessity, because there are just some programs that are PC only. Simple as that.

When people ask why I prefer to use a mac for my audio, video editing, graphics, etc. (other than the fact it works when I turn it on) I'll tell them this. It takes time and energy to learn how to efficiently and skillfully use your software, not unlike learning how to play the piano. With my mac, I can concentrate my energy on "learning how to play the piano." With my pc machines, I can't learn how to play the piano without knowing how to build pianos too.

Unfortunately, it seems that each new OS version (from either camp) adopts more and more characteristics of the other. A trend that will have them both in the crapper eventually.

Again as people around these parts like to say YMMV.

dvdhawk wrote: With my mac, I can concentrate my energy on "learning how to play the piano." With my pc machines, I can't learn how to play the piano without knowing how to build pianos too.

Excellently put. I couldn't have come up with a better analogy.

audiokid wrote: Are the new Power Macs aluminum?

the new mac pro's are aluminium. i have a 2.8 octa core mac pro at work for graphics and you couldn't tell if it's running or not without the monitor switched on.

audiokid wrote: I'm told 64 bit sounds quite a bit better than 32 bit.

Anyone try the Pepsi challenge with 32 vs 64 yet?

Technically, there should be very little difference between the 32bit offerings and 64 bit offerings right now.

First, the audio card communicates with the card at 24 bits (32 max). The audio is usually encoded at either 24 bit or 32 bit. When you mix, it will mix at 64 bit but even during mixing, the bits are truncated back to 32 bits (or 24) to go back through your soundcard.

Also, 32 bit or 32 bit float give you so many discrete variables that, while 64 bit is a significant improvement on paper and in theory, I hesitate to think the difference to our ears is even noticable.

My new OS is XP 64 Bit version - it doesn't have any impact on the sound or the stability but it sure is nice having that much RAM handy!

For what it's worth -
building my new PC took about 2 hours of assembly (with 1 screwdriver and a dictionary of curse words and 1 band-aid).
Installing the OS took about 1 hour.
Installing all of the DAW software took about 1 hour
Installing the latest drivers and firmware for every device on the box took about 1 more hour.

In all, it cost me about $1000 total. Oh, and I just did 10 tracks of 176.4kHz recording for 3 straight hours without even a hiccup.

Cheers-
J

Codemonkey wrote: MadMax, yes - Windows hardware fails more.
Apple however, if I understand correctly, are completely anal and have 12' brick walls against 3rd party hardware in their machines - Windows runs entirely on low end crap with insufficient cooling and gets dropped into cupboards with no airflow.

Not true Intel actually designed and made the motherboards for the first versions of the Intel machines.

Apple is now back to designing their own now.

8)