Hey there djmukilteo,
I just ordered a reconditioned Mackie C4 Pro this morning after having stumbled across this in a search I did.

http://www.overstock.com/Bulk-Electronics/Mackie-Control-C4-Pro-Rotary-Midi-Control-Interface-Refurbished/4236935/product.html

I have heard that these are wonderful controllers, however I have had no experience with them personally. I guess I will be trying it out on my midi gear soon.
Bret

Hey there jammster:
I really look forward to hearing your impressions when you get it setup.
The C4 looks like the cats meow for doing hands on control of VSTi and effects in Cubase and was one of the units I was looking at to go along with the MCU unit.
If you don't mind me asking...Do you already have a mixer/control system for your DAW or do you use mouse and keyboard and what's the plan on where the C4 will be used?

Looks like the Mackie MCU Pro Universal controller is out of stock everywhere!
Does anyone know anything about the Mackie protocol? It seems to be used by other manufacturers..
As an example...my Kore2.1 controller supposedly can use the Mackie protocol as a template but I haven't been able to figure how to make that work yet....
Does anyone have any experience using Kore as a Cubase controller?

hello- i use a mackie mcu. i have the older version. from what i undertsand there is no diff between the older version and the new one except the shiny new colour. i would pick one up off ebay if i were you and save several hundred bucks per unit. mackie stuff is pretty reliable so i wouldnt concern with it being used.

i use it with great ease with cubase. although i do not have a c4 my friend does and uses it all the time with his plugs. (the regular mcu is pretty good to interface with plugs too by the way)

djmukilteo wrote: Hey there jammster:
I really look forward to hearing your impressions when you get it setup.
If you don't mind me asking...Do you already have a mixer/control system for your DAW or do you use mouse and keyboard and what's the plan on where the C4 will be used?

Hey djmukilteo, sure I don't mind you asking.

I hope to be in the process of rearranging my home studio soon. It may happen when I have some extra energy to invest into it, at the moment I am beat from a couple of months worth of hard work siding a house three hours away, something that I am totally not used to doing.

Ah, the weekend!

I use a Macbook and Logic 8 at the moment. I do not have any mixing/control system for my DAW computer. I am interested in looking at new ways of mixing in the analog realm, but thats a different post. 8)
After hearing about how logic pro utilizes the automap feature in the C4 pro I had long since desired the interface for use on editing sounds on my plugins within logic pro, and also for editing my keyboards/effects modules. According to reviews, it makes editing fast and instant with Logic pro 8. Sounds almost too good to be true to me, but I have heard more about it on the Logic Pro Help forum.

The C4 pro comes with one midi in and out, thats it. Mackie does make software to program the C4 pro to control any midi device, making it a stand alone tool for your programing needs even without a DAW. So, it is possible to use it with just a synthesizer and program all the pages of parameters right into the C4. I've been collecting gear for over twenty years so I have quite an assortment to use with the C4. I mainly am fascinated with the Analog synth emulations by Arturia, and am also looking forward to using the C4 with my Roland XV-3080 which is a pain to program without a computer.

About controlling my DAW, I have always used a trackball (Logictech marble mouse USB) for my computer. I do not like traditional mice, they are fine for brief use, however as we already know music takes hours and hours of work. The trackball only takes a fingertip to manipulate, much easier for me.

Anything to make things more painless and keep creativity at the maximum rate when the juices are flowing is a welcoming addition to the process we call making music.

It seems that a thought can make or break a song, so if you don't write it down you may not remember again thereby having lost it forever.

I have an MCU Pro. The major difference to the prior version other than having the latest firmware, is the built in USB port. It works well with Audition 3, PT MP 7, Reaper, and of course Tracktion 3. Older extender units can be used with the MCU Pro without problems via the normal midi I/O.

TheJackAttack wrote: I have an MCU Pro. The major difference to the prior version other than having the latest firmware, is the built in USB port. .

thanks for correcting me. sorry i gave the wrong info!

Thanks for the input jammster and jack!
I hadn't considered a trackball instead of the mouse. I use a wireless mouse and it can get annoying...

A friend mentioned looking at the Yamaha n8 or n12 which are digital mixers and also work with DAW software...but I'm not sure how or if my RME FF800 would actually interface with that.....which is another question...
A new n12 is about $1200 and has all the same controls as the Mackie but instead of just a control surface the n12 is a full digital mixer interface.
I'm defintely leaning to a mixing surface just don't know how far down the road or where to focus my attention....

Unless your mixing surface is also your interface, then combining the two discreet devices into a mobile or non permanent installation is a PITA. I'm 100% mobile so when I mix it is nice to use the MCU to set automation etc. Then when I have things tweaked I burn off the test discs and the MCU is put away. Lately I've taken to analog summing so a control surface isn't much use for that, but a digital board isn't much use either.

I love the converters and quality of sound of the FF so whatever I do has to be routed to/from the FF.

TheJackAttack wrote: Unless your mixing surface is also your interface, then combining the two discreet devices into a mobile or non permanent installation is a PITA. I'm 100% mobile so when I mix it is nice to use the MCU to set automation etc. Then when I have things tweaked I burn off the test discs and the MCU is put away. Lately I've taken to analog summing so a control surface isn't much use for that, but a digital board isn't much use either.

I love the converters and quality of sound of the FF so whatever I do has to be routed to/from the FF.

Very Cool John!

If you don't mind me asking, what summing mixer do you use?
Thanks,
Bret

I agree Jack the FF works perfectly for me also. I don't think the n8/n12's would be the way to go.
I'm not doing any mobile stuff, just my own little personal studio.....so what I have setup works just fine for me....I guess I'm just tired of mousing around and looking for some sort of nice control surface that I would enjoy using when recording, playback and mixing with my RME and Cubase.
I keep coming back to the Mackie only because it seems to have some nice future expansion features and might be nice for controlling VST's, EQ and other plugins.
I will probably wait and see what this new MCU looks like when they get in. I've heard they are out of stock because of demand and had to find larger manufacturing help...rumors say China but I don't know if that will change the price or quality....there's always used/reconditioned I suppose.

djmukilteo: I got mine off of ebay for quite a good price-good because it worked, bad if it hadn't. I'm comfortable getting into it and working on it if I have to. As with all used gear purchases, it is a gamble in order to get a low price. Make sure you can afford a total loss.

jammster: I don't have a true summing mixer......yet. I've been influenced to look at the Dangerous line and will go that way if the new baby doesn't eat and poop away all my future resources. What I do use right now is my Onyx 1640 going analog in and out. My other board is in storage in Cali and it is a live sound pre-Peavey Crest Century. I liked it for live sound but it is not a studio board.

John, Onyx 1640 looks great to me.

I used to have a mackie 1604 vlz many years ago, it was very good at the time.

How do you like the EQ on that board?

I agree with what your saying, why bother updating if it eats up all your extra resources and does not provide a good investment into your setup.

I never use the eq in summing at all. Every gain stage is set at Unity and everything else is off or bypassed. For live gigs I like the eq. It is quick to dial in and doesn't intrude at all-but I'm a less is more sort of engineer.

Oh, I'm afraid I like my toys. I'd love to drop the cash on the Dangerous box. It is only the severe self discipline imparted by the Corps which keeps the MC in my pocket. And I love my wife and marriage.

And I'm afraid that a Springfield TRP may infect my near future.

TheJackAttack wrote: I got mine off of ebay for quite a good price-good because it worked, bad if it hadn't. I'm comfortable getting into it and working on it if I have to. As with all used gear purchases, it is a gamble in order to get a low price. Make sure you can afford a total loss.

Yes Ebay does have that problem...I'm not real excited about spending $800-900 and find out there's a problem..

I guess the quest and research will have to go on for now...

Oh I wouldn't pay that much. My max ebay price on any item is 50% retail. And then I have to want it badly.

Yeah, I had a couple bad experiences on eBait years ago.

You got to be real careful with buying something used, you just never really know if its worth it till years down the road.

Is there such a thing as wise gambling? I was never raised to gamble so it doesn't always work for me.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Impossible to know.

Its always good to know that you can return something if you find it does not fit your needs.

There was a MCU Pro "NIB" on "Ebait" (LOL good name) for a starting bid of $800 so that was why I posted that range.
Finding one for $600 or less would be a great deal but I never seem to find deals like that.....if I did it wouldn't work or something would be wrong with it LOL
I will keep my eyes open and an open mind...

"eBait" LOL! Yeah, I had a friend tell me that one. hehehe!

Now, does that seller have good feedback?

Its up to you to feel confident about buying something on eBay, don't settle for a low feedback number or %

If he's got 100% chances are your alright. Remember its your money, none of us can tell you what to do with it.

If the shoe fits wear it!
8)

Hey, I just got my Mackie Control C4 Pro up and running with Logic Pro 8 after calling Apple Tech Support.

This is the first controller I have ever used.

All I can say is it makes Logic much more tweakable. Very handy for use with the DAW. It does interact with the mouse and update the settings to the GUI in realtime.

The interface is interactive with Logic. It was a pain to get setup right, I have more research to do. I will report back later, but I have read that it may work with 3rd party plugins as well. At $339 shipped this is a knockout deal!
8)

Arturia CS80V:

Eighteen pages of 32 parameters!

All the knobs with active parameters light up the LED meter around the knob.

Wow, I am amazed! I can see why the retailed for $1000 now

C4 pro working perfect. . . so far.

jammster:
thats awesome....glad to hear it's working the way you expected....that is the way things like that should be....exceed your expectations....I like that..:)
I looked up the Auturia....that looks like a very cool synth....I have so many of those with NI Komplete, but that looks like a nice interface and probably a perfect application for the C4.
I will continue to watch for deals on the MCU, C4 etc..seems like Mackie has a pretty good following on this DAW controller business with good opinions! Still debating the Yamaha n12 series route but that would duplicate my RME FF800 interface and I do love the FF..so my quest will continue!
Be sure to post any new opinions as you get further into it!...I would like to hear anything you have found out...
Thanks for all the info!

djmukilteo wrote: I looked up the Auturia....that looks like a very cool synth....I have so many of those with NI Komplete, but that looks like a nice interface and probably a perfect application for the C4.

djmukilteo your welcome,

The Arturia Prophet V, Jupiter 8V and CS80V are like no other VI plugin I have ever heard. About as close to real as you can get, within reason of course, to an analog synthesizer.

Now, I have not had such a great time controlling them since they are 3rd party plugs. All the parameters come up but they are laid out strangely. There not put together the way the GUI is, there not intuitive to me at the moment. I think that there may be ways to work around this.

The C4 pro does have limitations, more than I had thought. I was wrong about being able to use this device as stand alone with a piece of midi gear, without a computer. The midi does always need to be connected to the computer, along with any other device you wish to have access to.

Also, when I talked with the tech support at Mackie today they told me that it is painstaking to program. Now, I have not delved into that one yet. It could be better than the way he made it sound, then again what do I know? I'll see later after I have enough time to absorb the manuals.

Now the good news. This device does come with Traction 3 software.
I have not bothered to instal that yet, it will be interesting to see how that works.

I did get a bit familiar with C4 and Logic Pro today, it works wonderful magic on plugins. Specifically ALL Logic Pro plugins.

For example, you can start your adjustments on the channel strip with the inserts. You just take the knob and scroll to the desired plug and the simply push on the knob and presto, it opens to the parameters for that plug.

Simple really, and I can sit here in the sweet spot and check out the mix. Now, there's my little review for tonight,
Till next time,
jamm

Here is [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.jazzmuta…"]something[/]="http://www.jazzmuta…"]something[/] new and interesting!

jammster:
Now thats is one cool piece of hardware!
I was just talking with someone the other day about touch screen interfaces for Windows...
Definitely going to look at something like that JazzMutant Dexter, it appears the Lemur is more geared towards the DJ market....it is truly the future...a little pricey but seems to be right around the Mackie MCU price point and ethernet protocols to boot!!....that will make some people pretty happy!

I'm still on this A&H ZED R16 mixer bandwagon and was quoted $1700 shipped to my door....that may be hard to turn down considering I'm still very set on the analog....my plans right now are to try using it with the RME in a couple different configurations and see what works best and which sounds better.....It will be interesting to see how the ZED interface compares to the RME...I would be pretty surprised if the ZED sounds better...
I also managed to get my updated Kore 2.1 controller working to the point it will operate the transport controls in Cubase....but just getting that figured out was like pulling teeth...I will take another stab at the faders tomorrow and see how that goes...I need to finish a couple more tracks first...

Yeah, I was drawn to a website called [[url=http://[/URL]="https://www.beatpor…"]BeatPort[/]="https://www.beatpor…"]BeatPort[/] by this remix Timothy Allen did that is very cool. It just so happened that there was some info about this product there.

Dexter does look interesting, however its something that I would like to try hands on before spending that much on something of that nature.

djmukilteo wrote: I'm still on this A&H ZED R16 mixer bandwagon and was quoted $1700 shipped to my door....

Wait! Those are $3K retail, where on earth did you get that price? Sounds good, I may be interested sometime in getting a new mixer too.

I'm with you on the analog, just wished I had more time for making music right now. I've got to get some work done on siding my garage before the snow flies.

Yes big price drop...they have ranged anywhere from $2999 all the way down to $1699@GC...also check out Northern Light and Sound...

The snows are on there way, so get that siding done and then heat up the room, board and all your equipment and be ready for some warm winter recordings....that's my plan....of course it will be more like rain than snow here..LOL

Ya know, there are some things about the ZED R16 that have me wondering, one of them being why they are not up front about its firewire sampling rates.

There has been no mention if it is a 24bit/96k device or if its 24bit/48k, but now that I have seen their video on their website its pretty clear that the Zed R16 is ADAT ready and is more than likely only 48k capable. Certainly if it was 96k capable they would be mentioning its abilities to do so.

I know that there are a limited number of people who want 96/88.2k capable machines for recording. My interest lies in the improvement in sound quality of plugins/ decrease in latency on my setup. I can hear a difference, sometimes a dramatic difference depending on what is going on. It does work the machine much harder and pushes the file size up. Its not for everyone, but those of us who like an improvement in performance while recording can appreciate the difference, not to mention the improved noise floor/ dynamic range.

Still, I wonder how the ZED R16 really stacks up to the Mackie 1640/ Onyx w/firewire option. The more I looked into the 1640 the more it seemed that it is not capable of sending back 16 individual audio outs back to the analog mixer. Bummer, because it is a 96k device.

So djmukilteo, the Zed R16 is certainly a breakthrough product, just keep in mind its nowhere near the capacity your RME FF800 has for handling higher sample rates and outputs.

Which leads me full circle, back to where we came from. Each device serves its purpose. Take one away and things can really begin to make you wonder what happened down the road.

I have a real hard time wanting to give up recording in 96k or 88.2k on a regular basis now. It just gives the tracks that extra touch that really makes a difference in the end.

Jammster,

And with a wave of their magic R&D wands, Mackie made your dreams come true:

http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx1640i/

Maybe not all of your dreams, but it looks like it sends all 16 channels back to the mixer for analog mixing (you can enable the firewire return channel by channel if I'm reading the front panel correctly).

apstrong, you know I love Mackie, but the world of electronics is constantly changing, from one day to the next.

They now are having problems with these new mixers being made in china.

I don't know why there doing it. Why on earth would they ship all their jobs off to be manufactured in China?

Well, I'm simply not going to support this.

Go to the Mackie forum and read what problems are happening with these new mixers.

The main problem is that they decided to move the operation to China.

One of my friends told me that they are a publicly traded company now, no longer privately owned. This opens the doors for real problems for us musicians.

Bad move, they should make good quality here at home. IMO the problem with our country is that we buy into the Wal-Mart idea that we can get something cheaper rather than get something that was made meticulously and costs a bit more but works under stress.

Anyway, its back to that circle. I think their is something important about using equipment that works well and serves a dedicated purpose in the recording environment.

It seems to me that when we get these new devices that do so many things, they have a tendency not to live up to all the functions as long as separate, dedicated devices do.

For instance, you have power amps and speakers. When one of your speakers gets blown, you just swap it out. Same with an amplifier. just replace it with a good one so you can send the broken one to the shop to get fixed.

Now if I had spent $1200 a piece on powered monitors, I have to send the whole thing back to the shop and wait for it to get fixed while I am using a whole different set of amp/speaker.

Things just get more prone to failure with the increase in tasks for the individual product.

So, I simply like the analog mixer. I got the FireStudio to do the A/D + D/A, I plan on keeping it like that.

IMO the problem with our country is that we buy into the Wal-Mart idea that we can get something cheaper rather than get something that was made meticulously and costs a bit more but works under stress.

We agree completely, and it's not just your country. :) Wasn't aware Mackie was having problems with quality control, thanks for the heads up. In the meantime, I don't want to take this thread too far off course, so onwards and upwards!

Actually on page 10 of the R16 manual it states specifically that it can do firewire recording at 44.1/48/88.2/96 .

The rate does change when you use it in ADAT mode and I believe it goes down to 48K with 16 channels ADAT.
But then I also think this happens on many of the FW interfaces out there when you use ADAT.

I may be ordering it here real soon and at the very least it will become my analog mixer or FW on SonarLE and I may even upgrade to full if I like Sonar better than Cubase!
I'll either do that or upgrade to Cubase 5 anyway!

I think the price, capabilities, flexibilty and quality of the A&H and its preamps are worth the risk and only actual testing and experimentation will tell the tale. After all, it is my setup and it has to be the way I want the workflow and quality to go...
At least that's my rationale for today....tomorrow it will probably change LOL

so...
RME FF800 10in/10out running on Cubase
A&H ZED16R 16in/16out running on SonarLE...
I'll see who wins....if there is a winner...in my mind anyway...
I'll let you know what happens

Oh BTW:
"GC" had a MCU Pro on sale here for $1080

If you really want to play run both interfaces on both DAW's.

WHAAAAAAT......holy smokes
Two FW connections running simu?
I thought that couldn't be done?
Are you just funnin with me JA or for real...?????
Please say it's possible and how!!
I would need a different FW card only have one FW connection on the back of my puter...

No, you can't run two ASIO drivers at the same time on the same computer. You could run two firewire connections like interface + hard drive. However, you don't need to change the DAW to change the interface. Cubase will run either and so will Sonar.

Ok......
The easiest way I would think would be to run each on separate computers....

I don't know. It's just a swap of a firewire cable and the ASIO driver. I do it all the time when I'm changing setups for different locations.

TheJackAttack wrote: Actually on page 10 of the R16 manual it states specifically that it can do firewire recording at 44.1/48/88.2/96 .

This is Really good news guys!

.....of course the RME will run at 192K, so how bout tracking and mixing on the ZED @96k and then master on the RME @192k....either DAW Cubase or Sonar....I'm thinking Cubase just because the Sonar is an LE version....
any thoughts on plugins?