The old guys call it room ambiance, the other guys call it reverb.

Its not reverb that occurs after the sound plays this (after much research) is the AIR line6 thingy that creates a sonic distance before the sound occurs.

Maybe its a phase/filter combination???

It's a reverb with pre-delay.

Ambiance is a type of reverb. Like traditional reverb it only effects the sound after it occurs. (It's just not possible to effect the sound before it occurs. You can make it appear that something happens before the sound by adding a delay that is louder than the original sound, but that will sound unnatural. It is also very hard to play live with this sort of delay.)

The main difference between ambient reverb and a typical room reverb is that ambient type reverbs have a shorter pre-delay, generally less low pass filtering, very high diffusion, and a short decay time.

"Ambiance is a type of reverb. Like traditional reverb it only effects the sound after it occurs. (It's just not possible to effect the sound before it occurs."

In the linear history... ambiance was the only reverb, it was gained from large and spacious rooms. Back in the day. Which was were Jimmy Page developed what he has been credited with as the technique of [[url=http://[/URL]="http://en.wikipedia…"]reverse-echo[/]="http://en.wikipedia…"]reverse-echo[/]. Right, I know, it was recording not live.

I think that is most likely the disparity here...time.

As far as I can see from the manual you should be able to tweak your pedals effects to give you something similar. I am not certain that it is a mic simulation effect you are looking for. I would start in the reverb section with the "Ambience" group, which by the way the manual describes as the exact effect you are looking for. Tweak the predelay, eff level, dir level, and or density.
These pedal's effects can be difficult to adjust unless you are doing this kind of thing all the time. I have found that getting the effect I am looking for is a matter of overdoing it and then backing it off (lowering the eff lvl and increasing the dir lvl until it is more subtle.) Make several saves along the way and then try them out later (fresh ears.)
You really should not need any other effect other than those built in.
Another tip is have someone else play while you keep the processer in your lap while making the adjustments.

So what do guys recommend I buy in order to create this effect?

mrfrisky330 wrote: So what do guys recommend I buy in order to create this effect?

So you don't evenwant to try using reverb? It is reverb. Find a room verb patch and tweek.

The problem I have is the equipment I have does not have a good room reverb its the usual "full in the face then echoy shimmers" which is not the same as the Line 6 A.I.R effect which positions the initial sound away from you before you hear it so it sounds like its in the distance.

If you guys know of a decent rackmounted system that can do what you say tell me what it is!!

If you're willing to go with a VST, "[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.kjaerhus…"]Classic Reverb[/]="http://www.kjaerhus…"]Classic Reverb[/]" will do this (adjustable lo/hi damping, lo cut, early ref volume etc.)

A decent rackmount would be made by Lexicon. Price and model varies greatly. Most any of them are the best for the most part.

Another great box is an Ensoniq DP Pro.

If you would like a cheaper box try and find an Alesis Quadraverb. You can get them dirt cheap used, not sure about the UK however.

Best wishes to your search,
Bret

You mean that you tried the ambience reverb setting and couldn't tweak it? Or you tried the preset room settings on that came with the pedal? Did you read the manual re: ambience in the reverb section?

I think you should add at least two more reverb units, because that is what the lexicons are, that way you can have 4 daisy chained verb units, your amp, the Boss, a couple of lexicons oh yeah and the natural reverb of whatever space you are in!

.Oh, one problem you will still likely have to dial them in to get your effect, which I am certain your Boss unit is capable of doing but maybe your not. If that is the case I don't mean to be stupid but just buy the Pod XL.

Unless you are a subscriber to the more gear must be better sound school of thought. I subscribe to the more gear, more potential for noise, problems, tone loss camp.

Once again your Boss unit should be able to render the effect without additional $$$$$.

The GT-10 is pants when it comes to doing that. All it does is add reverb not space and dimension so everything sounds DI'd in the mix and its all in your face no ability to "push" instruments into the background as you can with the A.I.R. facility.

I was thinking about it in depth and I am beginning to wonder that because its part of Line6's amp/mic modelling combo whether its a combination of phase shifting filters and reverb?

We all know using phase can create a convincing stereo sound from a mono input and the essence of sonic "distance" is the fact sound has certain harmonic frequencies filtered out as the sound goes further away otherwise a lorry in the distance would sound exactly the same when you stood next to it, so maybe a phase/staged filter unit would also assist?

couldn't you just dump the gt10 and go back to line6? the X3 live is golden!

I have a hard time accepting that you can't simulate a room sound. If it truly isn't possible, that thing is a piece of garbage. Add a small room verb and draw back the direct signal. Usually this is represented by a wet/dry mix parameter. Sometimes represented simply as mix. The less dry you add the more distant it should sound. No parameter adjustment? Take that piece of crap back!

I could, but the GT-10 simulates my Boss pedals better than anything and thats why I bought it to use it for recording so I could get very close to my live setup.

Also I expected my old Digitech Studio Twin to come up with the goods regarding the issue but it didn't it might have 15+ reverbs but none create the sound of an amp in a room the Line6 does so very well :(

Learn to adjust the parameters. There is a world beyond presets.

While Line 6 claims that their AIR effect is propietary it is simply a mix of effects as a preset and using the Boss effects you should be able to come close to what you are looking for. I would think that some sort of very short delay mixed with a proper reverb setting, some EQ; tone decays with distance, reather than phasing is most likely the chain you are looking for.
Otherwise as I said before buy the POD, because you will not find their preset on any other piece of equipment and there is not an effect that you are "missing."
No magic pill.

Well, it's probably a convolution reverb. I don't know how proprietary that can be.

Came up with a solution that means I keep everything! If I ditched the GT-10 I could not replicate my live sound with other equipment (have found that out before!) the GT-10 does my Boss analog pedals 90-95% accurately :)

Anyway bought a TC M350 dedicated reverb/delay used the "ambience" room setting played about with it a bit got the classic reverb shimmer but the sound is still "direct".

Setup a clean patch on the GT-10 with max cardio off axis and maximum mic distance, then knowing that distant sounds have a phase variance that alters certain frequencies used an Ibanez Lo-Fi pedal for the appropriate frequency cuts and et voila! a very convincing "amp at the other side of the room" effect :)

So the effects chain ended up as:

Ibanez Lo-Fi->GT-10->M350

Who needs to spend loads of money on line6 when I spent £75 on the M350 and everything else I already had :)

Thanks for your help dudes!

I am happy you got your sound but I am a little suprised that it required the purchase of a dedicated reverb unit, my Korg processor has the reverb controls that TC unit seems to have. Sometimes the adjustments of these processors can be a PITA because you have to go thru so many screens or stages to adjust the settings.

Well the reason I bought the M350 was the old Digitech was a paltry 16bit machine and the GT-10 is 24 so it seemed logical to get a modern 24 bit version of the digitech so the sampling rates/Hz are the same accross the board :)

I'm with jg49 here. I'm surprised you couldn't get your sound out of tv GT-10 on it's own. I bet a read through the manual would have got you your sound.

The GT-10 ha0 no where near the quality of the reverb, plus this special sound requires a good studio reverb plus phase alteration plus mic emulation.

The GT-10 is not a studio system its for playing live the reverbs are simple, the M350 is far, far superior and the Ambience was 85% what I was after to start with :)

I am not certain what is meant when you say phase alteration, the Ibaznez lo-fi seemed to be a an EQ device (lo-cut, hi-cut, frequency.) These were the things I recommendeed in the earlier post, reverrb, delay, EQ but perhaps I am not aware of the use of the term.

delete double post

I could be wrong here but, it seems to me this "phase" effect will occur whether you apply it or not if you are applying a reverb effect. Reason being, you are creating the perception of distance. Distance meaning that the sound is "reaching" the mic at different intervals. This cannot possibly be in phase at all times so there will be some perceived "phasing". Want more "phasing"? Add a chorus to the reverb(only).