Originally posted by tundrkys:
I'm giving up on the AMD. I thought the problem was solved, but it wasn't. So any way, is this the stuff that I need to build your system, or one similar?
MBASU-00230 ASUS P4B266-M Socket478 LAN/2DDR/AGP4X/3PCI/CNR/USB 1.1/ATX DDR Motherboard $99.00

CPP4-00240 PENTIUM® 4 1.6GHz 256K cache 400Mhz FSB Socket 478 OEM $120.00

NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!! Stay the hell away from that old Willamette 1.6 P4 chip!

You want only a Northwood P4. Seek out the 1.6a in the description (look for that "a", it's important), look for that 512k cache size. It's only $13 more at newegg.com. You'll be sorry for buying the older style P4, it won't overclock very good and is yesteryear's chip. You might as well be buying only a P-III chip :mad:

Also look at those specs on your motherboard too, you've listed the "M" version that is shortchanging you 3 PCI slots. You don't want the "M" version, you want the plain ASUS P4B266 socket 478 DDR mobo it's the correct one. It has SIX pci slots. At the very least get the "C" version of the board with no lan, no ac97 audio. It's only $108 at newegg.com. Those parts you've listed above would only make a half-assed ANUS.

Those parts you've listed above would only make a half-assed ANUS.

hmmm...half-assed ANUS...I cant imagine what that would be like!!!
Anyhue...the plain version I have has no LAN but has AC97 and USB 2.0 as well. I definately reccomend getting the plain version as Nick states..Six PCI slots and three memory "sluts" as Steve calls them.
Yeah, I hear your frustration on the AMD side of things...it's hard to pinpoint a good chipset on those systems..only one is the AMD 761 series so far but I'm still wary due to it's southbridge VIA chipset...oh well..I'm happy with the P4.
Indeed, make sure as Nick states that the description for the P4 has that little "a" after it which tells you that it's a Northwood .013 series chip...whether it's a CR or Malay chip doesnt matter but getting a Malay chip will definately be a wiser choice.
Opus

Ok, so is this what I want?

Asus P4B266-C Intel 845D chipset ATX Motherboard-OEM Supports Socket 478 for FC-PGA2 Pentium® 4 (Willamette/Northwood) 1.4GHz to 2.4GHz+. FSB: 400 MHz. Memory: 2 x DDR DIMM Sockets, Max. 2GB unbuffered PC2100/PC1600 ECC/non-ECC DDR SDRAM Memory. 6 PCI slots, 1 x AGP. Up to 4 USB. NO AUDIO. NO LAN. $108.00
1 $108.00

Intel Pentium 4 1.6A GHz 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz Processor Bus- RETAIL version. With / Heatsin & Fan. $132.00
1 $132.00

Originally posted by tundrkys:
Ok, so is this what I want?

Asus P4B266-C Intel 845D chipset ATX Motherboard-OEM Supports Socket 478 for FC-PGA2 Pentium® 4 (Willamette/Northwood) 1.4GHz to 2.4GHz+. FSB: 400 MHz. Memory: 2 x DDR DIMM Sockets, Max. 2GB unbuffered PC2100/PC1600 ECC/non-ECC DDR SDRAM Memory. 6 PCI slots, 1 x AGP. Up to 4 USB. NO AUDIO. NO LAN. $108.00
1 $108.00

Intel Pentium 4 1.6A GHz 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz Processor Bus- RETAIL version. With / Heatsin & Fan. $132.00
1 $132.00

That'll work. Also consider how much and what kind of memory you want. Corsair and Mushkin are my favorites. In a post from last month you'd mentioned that you had 133 memory (I'm assuming PC133) in your old machine, so you'll need some DDR sticks, I'd get at least PC2400 and make sure it's CAS2. A couple sticks of CORSAIR DDR CM64SD256-2400C2 256MB PC2400 at $91 each or MUSHKIN DDRAM 256MB|32X64 PC-2400 at $99 each from newegg would be a good choice. Even the Samsung Original DDR333 PC-2700 256mb which is CAS2.5 at $83 each would not be a bad choice. I'm usually a Mushkin Man (ha! that sounds wierd), but used Samsung in my latest machine and am very pleased with it.

geez..ya know sometimes I lose train of thought waiting for the reply page to come up and forget what I'm about to post...........

You could aslo go with kingston or crucial ram as well...I have had great success with kingston..seemless for me..going with PC2100 isnt bad either if you want to save that "tiny" extra amount! Just a suggestion...
Good luck with your soon to be ANUS machine!!
Opus

Originally posted by Opus2000:
geez..ya know sometimes I lose train of thought waiting for the reply page to come up and forget what I'm about to post...........

And it does seem to be the server, not the network links between us and the server itself. I keep getting lots of "Internel server error...blah blah blah" messages.

Too bad about AMD, the chip has great potential. And the prices have come down quite a bit, probably due to Intels Northwood pricing.

But an ANUS is the only thing worth putting any effort into... :eek:

Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
I think so Brain, but there's still a bug stuck in here from last time.

That ones good but this one's better...

Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
I think so Brain, but where are we going to find a tattoo parlor open at 2am?
hee hee!!!

As far as the AMD goes..yup, price wars and latest bench marks are saying the 2Ghz are slaying the XP processors....
Opus

Originally posted by Opus2000:
Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
I think so Brain, but there's still a bug stuck in here from last time.

That ones good but this one's better...

Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
I think so Brain, but where are we going to find a tattoo parlor open at 2am?
hee hee!!!

This thread is degenerating offtopic pretty rapidly :D
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.sph.umic…"]Here's a great source of "Pondering" quotes.[/]="http://www.sph.umic…"]Here's a great source of "Pondering" quotes.[/]

I especially like the non-pondering quote at the top of that page:

Brain: It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob.
Pinky: You have no idea.

So what exactly is the difference between Asus P4B266 and P4B266-C? Both have no audio, no lan. Both have USB. Both have 6 pci.

Now I do see the "C" has only 2 DIMMS whereas the other has 3... but that's not particularly significant, since 512MB RAM is probably overkill for audio, and it costs about the same for a single 512MB stick as 2 256ers. (Buy the bigger stick, to keep upgrade options open... is there any reason why 2 256MB sticks would be preferable?)

Is that the only difference? Does the 'C' version have ALL the OC'ing goodies just the same???

(No, I have not yet sprung for it... Already got $500 on my CC with the hard drive, removable trays, 4U rackmount case, Plextor 40/12/40A. But the $750 sitting in my newegg wishlist, well... it's just still too painful to push the button! And I'm still undecided on the 1.8a OC to 2.4ghz.
..."Well, do ya feel lucky, punk? Well... Do YA!"
(Dirty Harry)

theDude

The P4B266 has USB2, onboard audio, and an extra insignificant DDR ram slot. The important thing that this board has going for it, is that its been tested by OPUS with different sound cards for compatibility. Also, because its the full featured version, it may get more support from ASUS in the way of BIOS upgrades.
All that aside, the "C" version should perform just as well anyway.

Actually...the P4B266 has audio but no LAN..I think the C has neither option or both..I'm not actually sure about that one tho...but you are correct in the 2 slots vs 3 slots of memory...
Ahhh...I also see this...No USB 2.0 on the C version!! So..main differences are:
C Version: 2 memory slots, no USB 2.0, No audio or LAN
Plain Version: 3 memory slots, USB 1.1 AND 2.0, Audio and no LAN.
Opus

Originally posted by theDuDe:
is there any reason why 2 256MB sticks would be preferable?)

Only based on what they had in stock when I looked earlier today... they had plenty of CAS2 256MB and all the CAS2 512MB sticks said "NO stock". The CAS2.5 512MB will probably run fine, but CAS2 is faster. Total of 512MB is usually plenty for most systems, but keeping the option open to add another stick later is a good thing. That 3rd memory slot on a DDR mobo is generally useless because of that double-sided vs single-sided conundrum. I see right now that newegg has in stock CORSAIR 512MB PC2400H DDR RAM - OEM 184-Pin. CL=2 -Unbuffered 2.5V for $182, that's probably one choice stick of DDR.

For the "C" versus plain ASUS mobo choice, the plain one is positively known by very many folks to be a proven performer you can't go wrong with, whereas the OC success of the "C" version is relatively unreported as of yet. The plain one is $38 more money than the C too.

I would hope that the C version would be fine on OC'ing it...same BIOS and chipset so it shouldnt be an issue at all...
I'm pretty sure one of us got the C version at some point..cant remember who it was or if they switched it at the last moment
Opus

Hey Opus, whaddya think about the CAS 2 vs CAS 2.5 DDR decision?

Even though it may seem an insignificantly small difference on the surface, the strength of a machine's lifeforce is keyed to its memory thruput, and my computer science edyoomuhcayshun tells me that even a tiny reduction of impedance in that area should yield a noticeable impact on the way the speed of the machine feels. Any idea on what the actual empirically measureable difference would be in a DAW? ...especially since DAW operations are generally so memory intensive?

I found just about everything I wanted to know about RAM (and a littl more) right here:

http://corsair.houseofhelp.com/

message boards hosted by the 'RAM GUY'. Pretty entertaining presentation for such a drole subject, actually. He also goes into things like real world performance differences, etc. And he actually answers your questions...

theDuDe

Originally posted by theDuDe:
And he actually answers your questions...

theDuDe

And you are saying we dont? Huh? Huh? What ya going to do about huh? huh? :roll:
lol

Looks cool...do you think once we get all the answers we'll attain perfection or enlightenment? Or will we all become stuttering dunces and erase our hard drives over and over again :mad:
Opus

Originally posted by theDuDe:

http://corsair.houseofhelp.com/

message boards hosted by the 'RAM GUY'.

Absolutely fascinating! My ears are starting to turn pointy, my skin is taking on a greenish tinge and I think my brain is going to explode.
You shouldn't have posted that URL, now I won't get any sleep tonight :)

UPDATE: (a few minutes later after posting the previous part of this comment)
The following is blatantly ripped of from that website:
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Q: So, the Ram Guy sez...

A: Buy CAS-2 if [1] you want to wring the last bit of performance out of your system, or [2] you're thinking of overclocking, either now or in the future, or [3] it costs the same as CAS-3, which it sometimes does...

Otherwise, CAS-3 memory should meet your requirements
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sound like CAS-2 makes a worthwhile difference for our kind of machines.

Yes...but what about CAS2.5? I havent read any of that site yet...I'm looking for the CAS2.5 vs CAS2.0 argument now!! lol
Opus

Originally posted by Opus2000:
Yes...but what about CAS2.5? I havent read any of that site yet...I'm looking for the CAS2.5 vs CAS2.0 argument now!! lol
Opus

Well since that extra .5 translates to one additional rising or falling edge of the clock signal that you'll have to wait for the memory to respond, it becomes potentially an additional 25% more wait time over CAS-2 (5 edges in CAS2.5 vs 4 edges in CAS2), thus if your goal is to "wring the last bit of performance out of your system" then spend the extra money on CAS2.

There I go again, spending other people's money. It's so much fun... I shoulda been a politician ;)

I shoulda been a politician :D

So the decision is official: get a 512MB CAS-2 DDR and stick it in your ANUS

.
.
.
That was bad, really bad.

Your right Nick.....That was bad.

FUNNY AS HELL!!

But bad.

Food for thought:

Would it not be better to get 2 256meg sticks of CAS-2.0 DDR memory instead of the single stick of 512?

Reasoning If the stick goes bad, you are down completly. If you have the 2 sticks of 256 and a stick goes bad, you can still operate with one 256 while you get a replacement for the crashed 256.

So.....Wouldn't be better to have 2 sticks of 256 jammed in your ANUS??? LMAO

Thoughts????

CustomProd

Originally posted by CustomProd:
Wouldn't be better to have 2 sticks of 256

If total 512MB is enough (and it probably is for the most part... but then the illustrious Bill Gates once proclaimed nobody would ever need more than 640k LOL!) then yeah, two sticks of 256MB would create a more fault-tolerant environment that would allow you to get by in a pinch if one stick ever fails when you need the machine the most.... just how Murphy's Law always happens. 'Tis food for thought indeed since I've seen memory hardware failures much more often than processors, motherboards or other semiconductor hardware. Of course disks and power supplies go south the most frequently, but that's a whole 'nuther animal.

Hey now...there will be no sticking of anything in my ANUS...lol! That's why I havetwo sticks of 512! Still got 512 if one goes down! Woo hoo!! 1GB RAM sure makes the world of difference...that's for sure!
Opus

OK, here's the "next big thing"... I'm working on a "look 'way ahead" plan for ram, sort of a "pre-pre-fetch deal - expecting CAS -.5 to -1.0 once final testing is done. On second thought, it may already be done, but I just don't know it yet. Doesn't matter, if I cascade 3-4 of these machines, they will write songs BEFORE I think of them, plus if I hook up a news reader I can go "back to the future"... Steve

CAS 1 is already achievable with emitter-coupled-logic static ram ECLSRAM, perhaps you might even theoretically achive CAS-1-.5-.5 if somebody would design double data rate ECLDDRSRAM.

Drawbacks are that ECLSRAM is hideously expensive, only available in small sizes, consumes massive amounts of current, and puts out enough heat to cook a pizza on.

Access time of ECL-based memory chips is on the order of tenths to hundredths of a nanosecond... access times for our beloved DDR and RDRAM is still several nanoseconds, and because they are dynamic ram, still have to be constantly refreshed.

I once worked with an old HP stack-architechture minicomputer (HP3000/70) back in the lat 1980's that had most of its CPU and cache built with ECL chips and for its vintage and slow clock speed (about 1.5MHz) it was actually pretty fast and could handle about 300 concurrent user sessions running an accounting application. It consumed about as much electricity as did the dedicated airconditioning system that was required to keep the darned thing cool.

I just ran 25 loops of Sandra burn-in wizard (arithmetic,multi-media, and memory bandwidth) with 512Mb(2x256Mb) of CrucialDDR cas2.5 set in the BIOS manually to cas2. Uh, thats 29 loops(yes I type that slow).
Solid as ever, so I guess I'll keep it there! :D

uh, guys I think that is enough information, thank you,,,,,,thank you very much.

There is never enough information..as you will come to find out we will rehash this discussion till the cows come home, leave and then come home again...and then we'll start it again! lol :p
Opus

Originally posted by tundrkys:
uh, guys I think that is enough information, thank you,,,,,,thank you very much.

Hey tundrkys, what part of Tejas are you in?

I'm in Wichita Falls... not the armpit of Texas as some folks say it is... WFalls is nowhere near that important, it's just a zit in the middle of Texas's unibrow eyebrow.

Sorry to say, I don't know where Witchataw falls is. I am not to up on my Texas geography.
I am in Port Arthur Texas. The Golden Triangle (along with Beaumont and Orange).

HEY!!! I know where that is!! You head West till ya smell it, then head south until you step in it!! LOL :) ;)

Witches' titty city (or Whiskey-tah Falls) is 125 miles NW of the D/FW metroplex.... about a 2.5 hour drive from there.

I definitely know where Port Arthur is, the last time I was down thataway was about ten years ago. Some redneck in a pickup truck tried to kill me and a buddy... we were riding our Harleys and I guess he was trying to re-live a scene from Easy Rider, except without the shotgun... just using his truck.