It interesting to here the difference. How did you decide on the testing distances? There's a noticae difference on my phone between the two.

Really it was the height if my ceiling that dictated the distances. As well as how low to put them was by being comfortable playing.

Chris Perra, post: 432188, member: 48232 wrote: I find I'm getting some kind of weird comb filtering if I set up OH's to close to the ceiling even though it's completely dead,

All of these examples sound pretty "choked" to me, and aren't what I would personally consider to be "pleasing".

I think that most engineer cats will likely tell you that a 6'3" ceiling is too low to get the OH sounds that most engineers like, and that 8' is the minimum height required to really get that nice OH sound. But, there are variables to that, too...rom dimensions, acoustics, materials used in the construction of the room, etc.

I don't think it's impossible to get "workable" sounds at lower heights, but I do think that a ceiling that low can often present some issues - as you've already discovered - that can make it difficult to get an OH sound that is pleasing.

The type of mics you use will play a big factor in this as well... what were you using? And, can you elaborate a bit on why you chose ORTF? Did you try XY coincidental?

What will make a greater difference to your sound is avoiding phases issues. Having a low ceilling to work with myself, even if your placement is perfect, we can get some unwanted reflexions from the ceilling that may sound like comb filter. But phases may be a greater problem that needs our attention.
The first thing I'd check is if both capsule are at equal distance from the snare and from the Bass drum. This means that the OTRF array won't be parallele to the kit (from left to right) but slightly turned so an imaginary line from the bass drum to the snare would be perpendicular to the mics... Hope this makes sens. That way the BD and SN hits both mics at the same time. Then, make someone play and experiment with the distance until it sounds the best.

You can also add a room mic and use less of the OV in the mix

Each mic is the same distance from the snare and kick except the ORTF. I didn't post all the examples on the thread as i ran out of MP3 storage the media fire link has examples of spaced pair, recorderman,and xy as well. Also that's all the drums mics together there is a stereo room in there. The blend isn't the greatest as my ears are usually not happening after I play drums for awhile. There's phazeys from the tom mics ect. It was more of a test regarding the change in mic OH placement than trying to get a great drum sound.

Chris Perra, post: 432210, member: 48232 wrote: Each mic is the same distance from the snare and kick except the ORTF.

I know OTRF doesn't specify same distance, I was just suggesting it as an extra test.
I'm gonna listen to your files in the studio if I get time tonight ! ;)

Ok so your suggesting to do rather than left right on the kit go on an angle high tom low tom or left crash right crash with the center being both the kick and snare as opposed to kick being center or snare being center. Great idea I will try that one as well.

Ok I did a test using your idea. Sounds the best to me. I also did another one with different cymbals as the ones I was using were not typical. Uploaded to the folder.

Glad it gave you a pleasing option.. I'd like to hear that in a mix to get some perspective ! ;)

what mics did you use?

Neumann km 184s

Those are really nice mics. You'd be hard pressed to find better for OH's. ;)

Search recorderman overheads. This mic placement is so easy to set up and captures less room. I use it in a room with a low (less than 8') ceiling and consistently get good results.

One of the test positions is recorder man in the files found from the link in the original post. I like recorder man.. good tom imaging. I find it tends to be difficult to have the kick completely centered. Even though they are equidistant the kick sits too far the right for me.

I guess I should have paid more attention to the post :rolleyes:

I will say though I've not noticed the off center kick issue when using that placement.

I dunno.. technically if they are the same distance from snare and kick they should be the same volume. For some reason I get more kick in the right than the left. I level match the snare hits. I may be setting up the right mic a little to far to the right. And the snare mic a little too high. Hard to say. Could be my room as well.

Chris Perra, post: 432741, member: 48232 wrote: I dunno.. technically if they are the same distance from snare and kick they should be the same volume. For some reason I get more kick in the right than the left. I level match the snare hits. I may be setting up the right mic a little to far to the right. And the snare mic a little too high. Hard to say. Could be my room as well.

The only thing same distance assures is that the bass drum recordings will be in phase.. Not necessary same volume... (Am I wrong ?)

pcrecord, post: 432745, member: 46460 wrote: The only thing same distance assures is that the bass drum recordings will be in phase.. Not necessary same volume... (Am I wrong ?)

The direct sound itself should be the about same SPL. Complex dispersion patterns of real world sources and room reflections will skew things.

I dunno.. if they are the same distance they should be the same volume. They are pointed at different areas. So they won't be the same exact sound but they should be the same volume.. I dunno though.

bouldersound, post: 432746, member: 38959 wrote: The direct sound itself should be the about same SPL. Complex dispersion patterns of real world sources and room reflections will skew things.

Chris Perra, post: 432747, member: 48232 wrote: I dunno.. if they are the same distance they should be the same volume. They are pointed at different areas. So they won't be the same exact sound but they should be the same volume.. I dunno though.

Without fear of repeating myself : Equal distance will give you in phase signals but if directionnal mics point at different directions, they may not have the same volume comming from the bass drum.. You should get more balanced results with omni mics.. ;)

In most cases I can hardly hear the kick in my overheads. I'm surprised it's an issue.

bouldersound, post: 432750, member: 38959 wrote: In most cases I can hardly hear the kick in my overheads. I'm surprised it's an issue.

That's a good point. But I can imagine that if we're doing a jazz or big band recording, overhead would have a bigger place in the mix..

pcrecord, post: 432755, member: 46460 wrote: That's a good point. But I can imagine that if we're doing a jazz or big band recording, overhead would have a bigger place in the mix..

I find that most of my overall drums come from the overheads. If the entire kit doesn't sound good/balanced in overheads (providing the OHs not just cymbal mics) then there is much work to be done. Granted the kick mic(s) provide the majority of the punch of the kick, but IMO the kick in the OHs is an integral part of the overall sound of the kit irrespective of the music style.

Just my .02

I sometimes use a resonator which adds a ton of bottom and volume to the kick. Km 184's have alot of bottom compared to some other mic types.

So far I'm digging the tilted ortf
PCrecord method alot, nice clarity and spread on the cymbals, in this case it works more as overhead than whole kit.

Recorderman works well If I want less cymbals and more drums. But I have less control mixing the ohs without using filters etc.