Sounds like you dont need alot of preamps, would you record anything else besides singing ? (excluding midi)

You say you'd like to spend 3000 dollars and get nice symphonic works... software can be really expensive and you could spend 3 grand quickly on VST instruments.
In that price range i'd go with either Native Instruments Kontakt 4, 380$ or Komplete 6 (Kontakt 4 + alot of other stuff) 500$, it has amazing symphonic instruments and choirs as well, awesome for that kind of money.
They are the best sounding VST inst. in that field that I've heard.
I've only used Cubase (200-500$) so I couldnt tell you something else is better or worse but I really like it.

As for the hardware i'm assuming you already have a PC.

I have an RME Fireface 800 1600$ interface which is very popular and pretty versatile.
Many people will be able to recommend it, might be an overkill for your situation, but I dont know =)

Look for online reviews of the RME Fireface 800!

Then you'd have to get a good condenser microphone for your voice, someone else should help you with that, its not my field yet =)

This is very tough for me to understand all of this atm. I looked up kontakt and komplete 6. I don't understand if this is a mixing software, a composing software, or something for loops. All I see is that it is a very high quality set of sounds, which is fantastic, but I don't understand how to use it. Would I plug the sounds into a controller and play into protools or finale? Or could I take some form of notation and apply these sounds to that notation? Sorry for my ignorance, I did try to read before I answered, but I got more confused haha.

I do not already have a professional grade PC. That's something I'm saving for atm and is part of my budget. I can easily save more money overtime for my recording set up. So if I can add something like high quality sounds later to something I've already written that might sound mediocre, then it might be a good idea to wait for something like komplete 6 when I want to post my portfolio. In the mean time, writting out scores and decent sounds and mixing them (is mixing super important to quality scoring and recording?) with decent quality so that I can later attach fantastic sounds to them seems to be a decent approach.

I'm sorry if I'm all over the place, I'm very new to this.

EDIT: I'm only in need of guitar/bass guitar/ and vocal recording, but I don't need superb quality for those, just decent enough to pass on a portfolio.

VST instrument like Kontakt works like plug-in in a DAW program, e.g. Pro Tools or Cubase, I wouldnt personally get Pro Tools because then you are only limited to hardware that is Pro Tools compatible. (but thats just my opinion)

The preamps in the Fireface will do more than fine and it has alot of expandability for the best things around.

I'd advise you not to skimp out on the interface because entry level interfaces don´t have any expandability, plus you dont want your equipment holding you back.

Its alot easier to upgrade computers, i'm actually a big computer enthusiast, if you are just looking for a DAW system you could build a good machine for under a whether its pre built or not 1000$, GFX card tend to be 1/3 of the cost so if you are not planning on playing games its alot cheaper.

Just make sure its Intel i7, 4 cores and 8 threads, 6GB's of memory or more and Windows 7 64bit.

so, komplete 6 is to be used with an interface such as protools? If not pro tools what? Acid pro? also, I was thinking this for my controller

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://keyboards-mi…"]Buy Studiologic SL-990 PRO 88-Key Keyboard Controller | Keyboard Controllers | Musician's Friend[/]="http://keyboards-mi…"]Buy Studiologic SL-990 PRO 88-Key Keyboard Controller | Keyboard Controllers | Musician's Friend[/]

I also have a tascam digital portastudio dp-02

TASCAM

The other thing is, could I export a midi or wav file from sibelious or finale and have cubase or konekt interpret that into midi for me to edit? I am classically trained and I think in terms of notation, so working with the notes on a page is where I really feel most creative.

I think you are going about this in reverse order, start with the computer and the recording interface, pick DAW software such as Cubase, ProTools, Sonar, Logic, Acid, Reason etc.
Then when you go all that figured out, then you can start getting vst instruments, mics and real instruments.

I can only recommend Cubase, i'm pretty sure its the most common recording software.
By all means check it out [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.steinber…"]Cubase 5[/]="http://www.steinber…"]Cubase 5[/]

Thanks a bunch, I've checked out cubase 5 already and man it looks exciting. Apparently Justin Bieber used it on his album for one track, and while I don't get excited over his music it definitely proves it's professional merit.

I'll absolutely keep komplete in mind, and I'll try my best to get a sensible computer up and running with cubase 5. Is there a decent sound card you would recommend? Also, I heard DAW's should avoid the internet like a plague, but I'd like to have internet on my computer. Can I unplug the net while recording? Or is it a matter of virus protection?

Also, I need to know if notation software like finale, ect, can export files into cubase 5.

Another thing about Cubase is that its the most common DAW around so there are tons of tutorials on youtube and stuff like that.

You dont want a sound-card inside the computer unless its really expensive... and if you do you'd most likely need an external device to connect to that soundcard.

You want an external soundcard connected VIA firewire. Like [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.rme-audi…"]RME's Fireface 800[/]="http://www.rme-audi…"]RME's Fireface 800[/].
Its connected VIA firewire and acts as your computer's soundcard.
The good thing about having your soundcard external is that its free from electro static that comes from all the stuff happening inside your computer.

The Fireface is really the grand daddy of firewire interfaces, there are plenty more of these things from other manufacturers that are less expensive.
But rest assure that the Fireface is a great value for your money.

That thing about the internet is complete bogus, just get a good free virus protection like Avast.
I'm assuming you dont use the internet for 24/7 **** site usage =)

I guess I can't download lots of pron from limewire anymore, ooh darn :P. On a more serious note, the firewire you recomend is insanely out of my budget. with a computer, monitor, midi controller, finale, and cubase 5 i only have 450 left to spend on a fire wire. The one you recommended was 3 times that amount. Is it necessary to drop that much on a firewire?

Like I previously said, IMO you are going about this in the wrong order, get the computer and interface (soundcard) first.
When you have that you can add what ever when you have the money.

Save money and get Cubase Studio 5, its the same thing as Cubase 5 except a few features you'd never use are skimpted off.
Plus Cubase has a decent score editor that you could use until you get Finale.

Ok, sounds like that's that. Thanks a bunch. If something comes up, you mind if I pm you?

Also, the firewire you said acts as a sound card right? So I'd plug my speakers into it, or head phones? Or is it only processed through the firewire and then sent back to the tower where the head phone/speaker jacks are located?

No everything is connected to the external device, and sure you can PM me =)

Is piano your main instrument? Or are you going to be using an actual piano player to input the notes? If not, you don't really need an 88 key controller IMO. If it's just going to be a data entry human interface device. Not that it'll hurt to have the big toys.

You are going about it a little backwards. Perhaps find a local composer and seek some advice from him/her. Take a lesson, $100-ish per hour and get the info to get you started. A real person doing a real job that you are wanting to do. And a potential contact for gigs / work.

Gear wise. Get a decent computer. It doesn't have to be Septembers gaming console of the month machine. You're probably not going to be doing a lot of HD video editing and CGI work on it. Or you might. Unless you're adding a lot of effects and other extras you don't really need that great of computing power for audio. Baring full orchestral scores and other 100+ track endeavors. Which you're not likely to do out the gate, and that might not even be something that you're interested in. Save your money where you can to get that thing you must have. You'll know it when you see it.

Get a decent full duplex interface. Without one, you can't multi-track. You want something decent, but not something needy. If you only need two tracks then get something with only two tracks. If you're going to be recording real drums you'll likely want something with at least 8 channels. Otherwise there are midi equivalent drum devices. And nothing really stopping you from punching that in on your keyboard. An echo Layla 3G or similar device might be all you need. As long as it has the inputs and outputs and the quality to do you.

Get a decent mic. Without one you really can't get there from here as they say in Georgia. It doesn't have to be a great mic, it doesn't even have to be just ONE mic. But a mic(s) that suit your intended sources well. It's the front line of your recording chain. You don't really want to skimp too much here. But you don't need Neuman if MXL will do you. At least not just starting off.

Expect to spend near $500 on each element. But try not to spend more than $1K on any one element (on that budget). Unless it's important to you, must have, can't settle for anything less. Try to stick with popular items so if it's not what you thought it was you can sell it and get most of your money back. As far as elements. Computer, Interface, Mic, Midi Input Device, Accessories, and Monitoring. You need a set of headphones to multitrack. And some decent speakers to listen to your work. It's something you'll be doing / working on everyday, you don't want something that's going to drive you bonkers because it sucks.

Just some thoughts.

I appreciate the input. Keyboard is not my main instrument but it's something I play often and practice on daily (when I did have a keyboard). I moved recently and the piano wasn't mine so I had to stop playing. I had started learning one of chopin's nocturnes (the easier one:P), so I'm still somewhat new.

Guitar and voice are my main instrument, and I have a mic that will get the job done for now. Head phones are an issue as well as speakers, I don't know what companies and devices to look for there.

Also, as far as composers go, where would I go to look someone up because that sounds like a great idea. I'll ask around the music stores and send out a couple emails to some teachers at the college I suppose. If you have any other ideas to contact a composer, that would be fantastic.

Most any headphones that are closed and sealed should work. You need them to hear what you're tracking against, without having that get picked up by the mic (much). MDR-7506, ATH-M50, Senn HD-280, Proline, Grado, Stax, and the sky's the limit. Most anything $100 and sealed works. Just check the Ohms and Frequency range. 5Hz - 35Hz are generally good ones. On a budget ear buds with those mower ear muffs should work. Ear Muff Model 3000 seems okay, but I've never used them myself. You can always upgrade later.

Sm81 is sort of a traditional guitar mic. Lots of options though. Voice really depends on the voice. KSM44 or AT4050 are safe bets, but pricey. MXL990 or AT3035 on a budget. Bluebird, SM7b, EV RE-20, so many options. Preamps can change the character of a mic dramatically so don't rule out certain mics at first glance. But if they don't work for you, they don't work for you. Preamps generally rank by $ per channel, and most earn their keep in that regard. The DMP3 is probably the cheapest you should even look at twice. Although a lot of interfaces with preamps integrated are on par with that preamp. Roughly anyway. The mics can vary, they all pick up sound. But some will likely work better in your acoustic space than others. Depending on the room and the source. It's very easy to go overboard. So try to resist on your first exposure. Start small and get your feet wet first. You can always upgrade later.

As far as finding people, it depends on where you live. There's sometimes a musicians union or other association with a list. Although the list probably doesn't tell you much more than contact information. Check the names on your favorite songs. Check to see if they're still living. Try to contact them, even if they can't / wont, they might be able to point you in a direction. Basically just ask around. Visit the local college, they probably know someone. Or at least where you should look. If you're a freshman in a given major, hook up with a senior on that same track. Just saying that you're probably not alone in your quest. And there might be someone wanting to collaborate with you, that can get you rolling. School only does so much, at some point you just have to get out there and do it.

Just another add regarding symphonic sounds. IMHO East West's Quantum Leap libraries are unrivaled when it comes to realism. But, again these libraries are upwards of $1500 or more. Of course these are multisampled libraries that are many tens of gigabytes large. Check out these MINIMUM system requirements for "Hollywood Strings":

PC MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS

• Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Dual Core 2.1GHz or higher
• 4GB RAM
• Windows XP SP2, Vista, or Windows 7
• Sound card with ASIO drivers
• 7200 RPM or faster (non energy saving) hard drive for sample streaming
• 310GB free hard drive space / iLok Security Key (not supplied)

310gb for just the strings?! hot damn those better sound fantastic!

Thanks for the info on the mic. I have an 80 dollar mic that sounds "ok" to my untrained ears which is probably not a good sign. However, I think I'll take your advice of just getting started and seeing what comes next. I sent a list of products to a sound engineer my brother knows and I'm waiting for the thumbs up to drop my 3g's. These are the parts I'm getting as of now.

Ok, ok. I got it finally. The RME fireface 800

Next we have Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!

This is the pc.

[="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001RUYQ3Y/?tag=recording.org-20"]Amazon.com: Used and New: Steinberg Cubase 5[/]="http://www.amazon.c…"]Amazon.com: Used and New: Steinberg Cubase 5[/]

This is the mixing software that also has a decent notation program apparently.

[[url=http://="http://www.amazon.c…"]Amazon.com: Acer H233H bmid 23-Inch Widescreen LCD Display (Black): Electronics[/]="http://www.amazon.c…"]Amazon.com: Acer H233H bmid 23-Inch Widescreen LCD Display (Black): Electronics[/]

The monitor you recomended.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://keyboards-mi…"]Buy Studiologic SL-990 PRO 88-Key Keyboard Controller | Keyboard Controllers | Musician's Friend[/]="http://keyboards-mi…"]Buy Studiologic SL-990 PRO 88-Key Keyboard Controller | Keyboard Controllers | Musician's Friend[/]

and the midi controller

I'll pick up some head phones that are alright.

$3300 roughly without shipping. I have plans to save for finale, komplete 6, a good microphone, and a good pre-amp. All of which I will budget for 2 grand for.

You get what you pay for. Quantum Leap libraries are as real as it gets without having to hire an orchestra.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.youtube…"]YouTube - East West Hollywood Strings Demo - Allegro Agitato[/]="http://www.youtube…"]YouTube - East West Hollywood Strings Demo - Allegro Agitato[/]

Your telling me everything in this video is synthed?! I need new pants. That is outstanding... I now have a dream to own that stuff. That sounds better than most orchestra's save for the major ones.

If you subscribe to East West, they might still have "Play" available for free download with some limited orchestra samples. No where near as in-depth as the full version but it's a good example of the quality of the samples. You have to remember too that the musician that played the samples you heard in that video is probably a seasoned professional. I'm not insinuating that you aren't just reminding you to take it into consideration. A program is only as good as the person using it.

well that is still incredible. I hope I can be a pro like that one day.

Speaking of pro, what are some good cubase 5 tutorials?

Sounds synthed to me. No fracks, all attacks are basically the same. At least those sounds that have attacks. Definitely lacks that human element. There's just not the realism where the bow goes different directions, where everyone is on a different brand of instrument. Where brass players find it near impossible to attack the same note the same way every time, or even twice in a row. And certain dynamic inflections are implied in the content, not added later with a slider. i.e. the piano doesn't get louder, AFTER you already pressed the key and the attack of the note sounded (past tense). And an instrument like harpsichord(didn't hear it in that sample though) doesn't have any dynamics outside of the number of keys being pressed at one time. You could synthesize all of that, but it's generally better time management wise to just hire some pros. Not that realism is a trait that is in demand in todays fantasy world. And those are pretty good IMO.

Shadow_7, post: 351564 wrote: Sounds synthed to me. No fracks, all attacks are basically the same. At least those sounds that have attacks. Definitely lacks that human element. There's just not the realism where the bow goes different directions, where everyone is on a different brand of instrument. Where brass players find it near impossible to attack the same note the same way every time, or even twice in a row. And certain dynamic inflections are implied in the content, not added later with a slider. i.e. the piano doesn't get louder, AFTER you already pressed the key and the attack of the note sounded (past tense). And an instrument like harpsichord(didn't hear it in that sample though) doesn't have any dynamics outside of the number of keys being pressed at one time. You could synthesize all of that, but it's generally better time management wise to just hire some pros. Not that realism is a trait that is in demand in todays fantasy world. And those are pretty good IMO.

Sure but find an orchestra you can hire for a one time fee of $1500. The samples in QL are very good. Listen to the the swell in the horns early on. Yeah, you can hear that it's synth if you know what to listen for. Most people would not know at first listen or second for that matter. As a comparison, listen to the samples in IKmultimedia's [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.youtube…"]Miroslav Philharmonik. [/]="http://www.youtube…"]Miroslav Philharmonik. [/]All of a sudden QL sounds really good.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.amazon.c…"]here[/]="http://www.amazon.c…"]here[/] it's listed for 500, not 1.5g's. Is this the wrong one?

hueseph, post: 351578 wrote: Sure but find an orchestra you can hire for a one time fee of $1500. The samples in QL are very good. Listen to the the swell in the horns early on. Yeah, you can hear that it's synth if you know what to listen for. Most people would not know at first listen or second for that matter. As a comparison, listen to the samples in IKmultimedia's [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.youtube…"]Miroslav Philharmonik. [/]="http://www.youtube…"]Miroslav Philharmonik. [/]All of a sudden QL sounds really good.

It is good. It is a value. Relative to hiring out at $600 per performer per 4 hour block of time. But if you need something yesterday, like we so do these days, versus a month plus out, you can't generally get results like that with synths in that short of a time frame. Unless you have some serious tech skills and talent. And even then it'll take a lot of trial and error and a critical ear to work out the nuances that groups of performers do instinctually in realtime.

Plus if you have a more discerning audience, made in USA, not putting anybody out of work in the process, yada yada yada. It could cost you the difference in large scale ticket sales to not pay for the orchestra. Sometimes it doesn't matter that it's just as good. Not having 50+ performers who worked on YOUR project out there spreading the word could be a significant drawback. Or having 50+ performers out there dogging you for not being authentic. Everyone's a critic. Bach's greatest hits as performed by... iPod.

It's a valuable tool though. Work out those wrong notes and bad ideals before spending cash on studio time. But a synth isn't going to tell you that you can't play that sequence of notes on an actual harp, bagpipe, harmonica, ..... And other if you're a composer and want to sell to this group classification... Have a product that can actually be performed. i.e. Humans pushing air through a tube eventually have to breathe. And so does the audience who might be singing along.

It's hard to sell concert tickets if the performance is someone touching the screen on a iPad. And CD sales alone rarely account for a substantial living.

Does the OP need it, or something like it? Absolutely, some basic midi sound generating abilities. You just can't hear how it truly sounds WHILE you're performing it. And they probably want to focus on the composition side instead of spending four to six hours a day maintaining pro level performance abilities. Whether that's on stage for pay, or in their bedroom waiting for the phone to ring. And in terms of composition you'd need skills on multiple instruments to be able to just lay down the tracks of the demo without the ability to synth. Not that you need that product. Rosegarden and Timidity and other capable tools are FREE or cheap to have and use. Depending on your technical background and how much time you want/have to invest in the process. Are they good enough for a demo, perhaps. Is it generally worth the costs of a commercial product for the time and ease and abilities they offer, most times yes. If you're just trying something out to see if you like it, why waste the cash? If you know you like it and intend to make your living with it(and can make a living in that pursuit), by all means, get the tools to do the job. Within limits, if $1,500 is beyond your means, you are probably better off settling for something less to tide you over. If you're just trying an experiment out, don't waste your cash. You can only spend it once.

-----

There's generally multiple versions of software. You want the "PRO" version which has all of the features available. There's generally a more generic version that has most of the features. But if you buy it, and need the other one, you'll end up buying it twice in most cases.

Symphonic Orchestra is something else altogether. Hollywood. Steins(yeah that was a typo. I meant Strings. iPhone typing.) is strings ONLY.

My goal is to compose for a living. So software like Hollywood Strings are something I definately want to keep an eye out for. As for spending all that dough to get it, I completely agree that it's not worth it until I start making a living. Cubase 5 and finale will be plenty to create a portfolio. Perhaps a little later komplete 6 will be nice as well.

So, Does anyone here have any experience composing for video games?

You are going to be very hard pressed with this budget. Let's break down what you have discussed:

1. Computer. Should be as powerful with as much memory as you can afford. You need two - preferably three hard drives (1) programs (2) audio files (3) virtual instruments.

2. Midi Controller. This choice is based on touch and personal preference.

3. Interface: You need both midi interface and at least one mic preamp. (Many interfaces come with some sort of DAW software.) This is essentially a pro quality substitute for the computer sound card. Converts analog to digital and digital to analog.

4. Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) software. Records audio, controls midi.

5. Notation software - Finale, Sibelius, etc.

6. Virtual Instruments.

7. Monitors. With your budget you will probably start with headphones, but eventually you need to get real monitor speakers.

So how do you do this on a $3K budget? There are several ways to go about this (as has been mentioned above.) Here is one approach.

1. Start by researching the computer and buying the computer. You main focus is composition and virtual instruments, so your priorities are slightly different than people who are recording multiple tracks of audio. Buy the best you can afford now, but plan to add more memory and disk drives in the future.

2. Get your notation software. Pay attention to the various packages. Some come with reasonable virtual instruments that can get you started. (I doubt you will be satisfied with general midi sounds.) These are now extremely complex packages - I think they do some simple audio recording, so you can use them as a DAW temporarily. At any rate, you can compose a symphony on them and never touch a DAW. More importantly, you can spend a long time learning all about them without thinking too much about the other parts of audio recording.

3. Get your keyboard/controller. Here is a place you can low ball - at least temporarily. You can troll yard sales and Craigslist and get a crappy synth feel keyboard with a midi out for next to nothing. Eventually you want some thing that feels right to you, but you can put it off temporarily. You might need a cheap USB/midi interface.

4. Virtual instruments. You can spend as much or as little as you want here. You want something that you will be satisfied to start out with, but watch out for the tendency to "climb the ladder" and buy a large collection of marginally better packages.

At this stage I suggest you stop and take a breath. You can easily exhaust your $3k on the material above, but even if you have not done so, pause, get to know that equipment and software. Since your focus is composition, you may decide that Finale or Sibelius is all you need to use. In that case, you can get away with a simple two-channel interface or a very high quality two channel DA converter to connect a good pair of monitors. In any case, once you really know a notation package, you will be better prepared to make decisions about a DAW and audio interface.

Good luck.

I agree with most of the stuff above. But know what MINIMUM stuff you need. Compositionally you can do almost anything you need on JUST a laptop and some software. It doesn't even have to be that great of a computer if you don't need to do a lot of stuff or in realtime. That's the minimum. It really is that simple. Technically composing could be done with pen and paper ONLY. There's just a lot longer delay between writing something down and actually hearing what it sounds like that route.

Now delivering a product to a client (those PAYing you to do something). Or having a product that they recognize as good right off and it doesn't have to grow on them because the sample is so distracting. But you don't "need" that stuff to write a great composition. Bach and folks did it on paper ($5.95 for 200 sheets) and pen ($0.65 each). You can buy a lot of that stuff for $3K. But no one wants to look at sheet music anymore to imagine what your work sounds like. It's even become a little difficult to push JUST an audio CD on them these days. And if you hand them a tape, they'll probably giggle.

The rest of that stuff just makes it faster to input your ideals. And to get near immediate feedback on what it will sound like. It also helps you make the content that the people who are interested in your work will need to decide if they want to buy it from you or commission you to do some other work. The rough equivalent of owning a ground line telephone in this day and age.

Can someone educate me on a good location to learn about interfaces? I really don't quiet understand what determines quality. I Don't need more than 2/3 inputs as bob said. Thirdly, as a composer, is a VST more important than a DAW? What if I had a vocal audition that I needed to tape (absolutely no Reverb, or any mixing of any kind can be done on a vocal audition tape. In fact, a smaller room with very little Reverb is desired.) Should I use a friends digital camera?

Also, how do I "Use" komplete 6? Is it a collection of sounds? Does it record anything? If it doesn't record, what program uses the sounds? Also, what are daw's good for other than mixing and touching up sound. If finale can mix and touch up sounds, why should I consider something like cubase 5?

I know these are extremely general questions that ask for extremely long answers, but a simple link with an explanation would be nice. All the stuff I've read is in lingo or assumes I understand something that I simply do not right now.

Can't I just export the midi from finale or Sibelius and import it to a good vst to get quality sound? Or should I import it to a DAW first? What's more important for me, is it the DAW, or is it the VST? Which should I prioritize?

Komplete is a vsti and a stand alone synth. A Digital Audio Workstation comprises your hardware and software. A company that is willing to buy your composition may in many cases be willing to pay to have it produced on their budget. They will want to hear potential. General midi sounds won't give you that. As far as interfaces are concerned here is a good place to start. You just have to ask the right questions.

Ok whats a good 2 or 3 track interface? Is there a reputable company that creates interfaces with that little input/track number?

Identify your minimums and acquire those. If the costs justifies it.

Mic -> Preamp -> ADC (interface) -> Computer -> DAC (interface) -> Speakers (monitors)

For recording and playing back what you recorded. Plus a midi input device and the rest is pretty much software. Baring the functionality we all take for granted these days. Car, cell phone, printer, internet, .......

-----

Interfaces have specs. Compare those specs to other knowns. Namely dynamic range, noise floor, and such. Read reviews, but don't judge based purely on those. It should be fairly evident that sucky interfaces suck. The first indication is that most of the bad ones lack specs to compare in the first place. The goods ones are a bit harder to quantify how and why they're good. You should probably start off with something. Something cheap, so you have a basis for comparison.

DAW is the computer and the software to record and process your sounds. i.e. Audition tape.

VST is the software to synthesize and manipulate sounds. If you're just going to sing and play your guitar and record with a mic (or two or more), then you don't "need" the VST stuff. Unless you have a lot pops, clips, sibilance and stuff that you need to fix/hide. If you want to do more advanced sound processing and synthesis, you will "need" them. But you "need" the DAW first. VST is sort of the plugins to get more out of your DAW.

Bear in mind that you could outsource some, if not all of these things. Create a general midi file of your creation and then send it out to be mastered by someone else. One option if you don't have a lot of this gear, and do not desire to clutter your space with it. Just like renting some studio time to cut a CD of your demo / audition tape, if you're in a band and don't want to / need to start / own a studio. If it's not something you are going to be doing everyday or at all hours, something to consider. For light usage probably more cost effective. For heavy usage, it could add up. If you don't live near any of these options, ownership might make sense. I tend to justify my ownership in that most of my gear was bought used and I can sell most of it at costs. It might take two years and a lot of effort to do, but it can be done. So that $3K of gear in my bedroom could become $2K+ in cash if I really needed to or wanted to. Perhaps $3K+ if I don't care that it'll take five years to make all those sales.

H0bgawblin, post: 351620 wrote: Ok whats a good 2 or 3 track interface? Is there a reputable company that creates interfaces with that little input/track number?

It depends on what you consider good.

I have an M-Audio Mobile Pre and it's fair.

Emu 0404, Edirol UA-25, Zoom H4n, and many others. Some better than others. Firewire is generally better than USB. PCI with a breakout box can yield some of the more impressive gear. pros and cons. USB can have a high latency and low sample rate. Firewire can have quirky drivers. And other quirks depending on what you consider good. Some of the MOTU units are pretty impressive.

I would not buy anything cheaper than the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://pro-audio.mu…"]Presonus Firebox[/]="http://pro-audio.mu…"]Presonus Firebox[/]. Firewire is something I've stuck with strictly because USB has so much potential for noise, especially when you start incorporating external hardware. IE: preamps, compressors, reverbs. MOTU have some nice interfaces but they are considerably more expensive. I don't think they have anything with less than 8 inputs.

1. Start by researching the computer and buying the computer. You main focus is composition and virtual instruments, so your priorities are slightly different than people who are recording multiple tracks of audio. Buy the best you can afford now, but plan to add more memory and disk drives in the future.

2. Get your notation software. Pay attention to the various packages. Some come with reasonable virtual instruments that can get you started. (I doubt you will be satisfied with general midi sounds.) These are now extremely complex packages - I think they do some simple audio recording, so you can use them as a DAW temporarily. At any rate, you can compose a symphony on them and never touch a DAW. More importantly, you can spend a long time learning all about them without thinking too much about the other parts of audio recording.

3. Get your keyboard/controller. Here is a place you can low ball - at least temporarily. You can troll yard sales and Craigslist and get a crappy synth feel keyboard with a midi out for next to nothing. Eventually you want some thing that feels right to you, but you can put it off temporarily. You might need a cheap USB/midi interface.

4. Virtual instruments. You can spend as much or as little as you want here. You want something that you will be satisfied to start out with, but watch out for the tendency to "climb the ladder" and buy a large collection of marginally better packages.

This definitely seems to most relevant to me right now. I can skimp on voice recording until later. Right now I have the concern of my portfolio hanging over my head.

I think i'd like to follow the advice given in the quote. I already have a controller in mind and a very cheap m-audio interface. I think i'm going with finale because of the student discount. The computer that I'm getting will be sufficient as well. So that leaves what he said about virtual instruments. Is there a difference between VST's and Virtual instruments?

VST (Steinberg's Virtual Studio Technology) requires a VST host. There are some free ones but likely the composing software you choose will support VST. Virtual instruments can come in several formats including AU(Mac), RTAS(Avid Digidesign), VST, DX(Microsoft).

So finale with komplete 6 is completely viable?

H0bgawblin, post: 351626 wrote: This definitely seems to most relevant to me right now. I can skimp on voice recording until later. Right now I have the concern of my portfolio hanging over my head.

You still want that functionality though. Even if it's just a $10 battery powered mic. It doesn't have to be studio quality. But you might have an ideal that you want to get down quick and recording yourself singing it might be the best / fastest way to do that. Words, hook, rhythm, whatever. A sort of built in instant replay. Or just rewinding to that thought you had ten minutes ago. There's even some software that can take a simple recording and convert it to notation. Or there will be eventually. On the cheap there's fmit, so you could sing it note by note and the tuner will tell you what you're singing, note for note.

In a word, yup. However, the better the drivers the lower the latency. The "good" drivers come with good interfaces.

ok. I got the interface that you said to get on my list. It has been an intense 40 posts for me, but thank you everyone. I think I'll order these tomorrow.

Finale student discount.350

Next we have Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, LED LCD TV, Digital Cameras and more!

This is the pc.

[="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OD76RW/?tag=recording.org-20"]Amazon.com: Acer H233H bmid 23-Inch Widescreen LCD Display (Black): Electronics[/]="http://www.amazon.c…"]Amazon.com: Acer H233H bmid 23-Inch Widescreen LCD Display (Black): Electronics[/]

The monitor.

[[url=http://="http://keyboards-mi…"]Buy Studiologic SL-990 PRO 88-Key Keyboard Controller | Keyboard Controllers | Musician's Friend[/]="http://keyboards-mi…"]Buy Studiologic SL-990 PRO 88-Key Keyboard Controller | Keyboard Controllers | Musician's Friend[/]

and the midi controller

Komplete 6 the software (500 bucks on amazon)

[="http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubePRE"]PreSonus TubePRE | Sweetwater.com[/]="http://www.sweetwat…"]PreSonus TubePRE | Sweetwater.com[/]

Tube preamp for guitar and voice.

[[url=http://="http://pro-audio.mu…"]Buy PreSonus FireBox 24-bit/96kHz FireWire Recording System | Audio Interfaces & Convertors | Audio Interfaces | Musician's Friend[/]="http://pro-audio.mu…"]Buy PreSonus FireBox 24-bit/96kHz FireWire Recording System | Audio Interfaces & Convertors | Audio Interfaces | Musician's Friend[/]

interface.

Next on my list is cubase 5. But right now I'm at 2900. Budget has been met, :).