Could be your choice of preamp. Maybe a pre with some color to make it stand out more. How about a diffrent guitar to do the single note stuff. How about pulling one of the mics back away from the amp to get some room color?

The list goes on and on. You could even place an effect pedal in the chain if that is something you want in the song and dont mind keeping.

How about doubling the sing note stuff?

Like I said... Use your imagination.

Hi

To start with you aren't getting the true sound of your cabinet by only micing one speaker out of four. In my experience of 4x12s ( even 2x12, 8x10 ) each speaker will have a slightly different sound.

Aswell as close micing the cabinet, put out a stereo pair of condensers 5 or 6ft in front of the cabinet and use these during the single note passages to even things out a bit.

Anyway, the key here is experiment.

Good luck

Liam

Okay, first off let me explain that my original post wasn't actually me. That was my guitar player using my name to post with. I am the "sound guy" that he speaks of.

Here's a clip of the recording we did today with the Mesa:

http://www.chrysalismusic.net/Outspoken.mp3

The signal chain:

-Mesa Boogie Single Recto
-Miked by two SM57's, one right in the center on the grill, one closer to the outer edge at a slight angle about 2 inches back. (The Dustbro Method) And yes I'am aligning the Phase.
-The mics are going to a Sebatron VMP-2000e, through and Apogee Rosetta into Pro Tools via SPDIF.

Please give the song a listen and tell me what you guys think. Any Advice/Suggestions would be appreciated.

P.S.

JESSY DON'T USE MY NAME WHEN POSTING ON HERE! USE YOUR OWN!

maybe its too late and my ears are shot... but I dont hear too much of the problem you are talking about on the clip... but I cant get more than about ten seconds to play... either way. Maybe you have too much low end coming out of the amp so that when you hit chords with low notes the amp seems louder than the single note stuff. I have found that when recording super loud amps I have to turn the low knob on the amp further down than may seem "right". Or perhaps a compressor pedal on the way into the amp could help.

I am listening to this on crappy computer speakers, but It sounds GOOD to me. Seriously, I don't hear any tone problems. If it is not broke don't fix it.
Justin

Hey those riffs are awesome and sound great! Don't worry about dry. Just thinka about some of the best metal albums. 4 words...

...And Justice For All

Mike placement can really change the sound of your speakers as well. 57's are great for gigging but sometimes other mikes work best for you when recording. Moving mikes around is like changing frequencies because of the way the sound hits the mike and is always a good idea.

Other suggestions, use other cabinets hooked up to your rig if they are around the studio - I have used 15" bass cabs before and got monster tone

I have to say I think it sounds great already (mesa and the playing) but it is always fun to experiment if you have the time and gear.

Your single notes do sound a bit dark, but as far as metal goes its great to me.

Hi

I browse the net on the office computer that has no speakers so can't have a listen. But you are getting some favourable comments.

Keep experimenting.

Good luck

Liam

Hey John, I've recorded a lot of metal lately and I've found that for that type of music I can't really get all the tone that I need from just 57's. One of the last projects I did I used 3 mics... 421, 57, and a AT4040 off-axis. The 57 gave me all the meat that I needed, I got all the bottom from the 4040, and just about all the clarity came from the 421. It was a killer sound. Your recording sounds good, but it is missing some crunch. I think you could get that from the 421. Just watch out for phasing! Of course

Chappy wrote: Hey John, I've recorded a lot of metal lately and I've found that for that type of music I can't really get all the tone that I need from just 57's. One of the last projects I did I used 3 mics... 421, 57, and a AT4040 off-axis. The 57 gave me all the meat that I needed, I got all the bottom from the 4040, and just about all the clarity came from the 421. It was a killer sound. Your recording sounds good, but it is missing some crunch. I think you could get that from the 421. Just watch out for phasing! Of course

Yeah I plan on trying some different mics. I'll probably use a 57 in the center, and a 421 twords the outer edge. I'd really like to use a large diaphram condenser, but I record in my house and the LDC just picks up way to much stuff. It picks up my leaking faucet in the bathroom, cars driving by on the street, and even the sting noise from my guitar player strumming his axe.

I use at4033s for the most part on big guitars. With 414s in the room.

That string noise can be cool too. Think about how loud an amp sounds.... so if you hear just a touch of that string noise its a cool trick.

the guitars sounded good to me....reminded me some of Megadeths guitar tone on their latest CD....just a tad raspy and flabby but it works.....the drums tho, sounded rather small and overpowered by the guitars tho maybe u did that just so the guitars could be better heard.

That string noise can be cool too. Think about how loud an amp sounds.... so if you hear just a touch of that string noise its a cool trick.

Take a listen to Incubus's song "Favourite Things" for an example of this. Or at least that's what it sounds like is happening....

The powerchords speak very well. The problem as I see it is that your guitarist has a very very tiny problem in getting the single note stuff to speak. The riff needs to be a tad bit tighter in performance. But this is only half the issue. You will need to fain ride those sections up to match the level of the power chords. I would also try the single line parts as an overdub tom the power chords, or visa versa. Also, you could try ditching the other mic. The single line stuff might sound great with just a single sm57 on the brightest spot of the best sounding speaker (over the voice coil) at an angle (45 degrees).

Is there any compression going on? Back it off a bit as well.

Yes

Guitars sounded quite good on my PC speakers, maybe the only thing I can think of is to adjust the playing technique in doubling the single note parts, not that those aren't doubled well, but maybe changing the tone on the part by using a different guitar or amp combo, or even dialing a more cutting tone on the Mesa for those lines could work. The drums seemed a bit weak, but maybe as pointed out above it's just a rough mix to analize the guitars. Anyway, a bit of compression on the guitars usually helps getting them at a consistent level throughout and getting a bit more attack (or pick definiton), you could also use that directly in the Mesa loop and not in the recording chain, be aware (as Recorderman pointed out) not to overcompress.
Usually too much distortion eats up the attack and definiton: another trick would be to split the guitar signal to two different amps and dial in a distorted tone on the first, while getting a less distorted, brighter one on the second, record the two on separate tracks and blend them in the mix: this way you get the crunch and overdriven tone from the first, but the attack and definition from the second and could adjust the proportion as needed; double and spread LR, watch out for phase.

Hope this helps

L.G.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

guitz1 wrote: the drums tho, sounded rather small and overpowered by the guitars tho maybe u did that just so the guitars could be better heard.

Yeah It's just a rough mix. I just slapped it together real quick so I could get some critique on the guitar tone.

RecorderMan wrote:
The problem as I see it is that your guitarist has a very very tiny problem in getting the single note stuff to speak. The riff needs to be a tad bit tighter in performance.

Well the the guitar was dubbed 4 times....so yeah it's not that tight. When I go do the actual mix there will only be two guitars during the verse (the single note stuff) and all four guitars during the chorus. I'll be comping his takes and using the best one's, so the techinical stuff should be plenty tight.

RecorderMan wrote:
You will need to fain ride those sections up to match the level of the power chords.

Fain ride?

RecorderMan wrote:
I would also try the single line parts as an overdub tom the power chords, or visa versa.

Not sure I understand what you mean. Tom? Is this a typo?

RecorderMan wrote:
Is there any compression going on? Back it off a bit as well.

Yeah there's a lot of overall compression going on, but I just did that to bring up the overall volume of the song before I posted it here.

Johnjm22 wrote:
The signal chain:

-Mesa Boogie Single Recto
-Miked by two SM57's, one right in the center on the grill, one closer to the outer edge at a slight angle about 2 inches back. (The Dustbro Method) And yes I'am aligning the Phase.
-The mics are going to a Sebatron VMP-2000e, through and Apogee Rosetta into Pro Tools via SPDIF.

How did you "align the phase"? The polarity reverse switch, delay, or something else?

Chappy wrote: Hey John, I've recorded a lot of metal lately and I've found that for that type of music I can't really get all the tone that I need from just 57's. One of the last projects I did I used 3 mics... 421, 57, and a AT4040 off-axis. The 57 gave me all the meat that I needed, I got all the bottom from the 4040, and just about all the clarity came from the 421. It was a killer sound. Your recording sounds good, but it is missing some crunch. I think you could get that from the 421. Just watch out for phasing! Of course

All mics on the same speaker?

vagelis wrote: [quote=Chappy]Hey John, I've recorded a lot of metal lately and I've found that for that type of music I can't really get all the tone that I need from just 57's. One of the last projects I did I used 3 mics... 421, 57, and a AT4040 off-axis. The 57 gave me all the meat that I needed, I got all the bottom from the 4040, and just about all the clarity came from the 421. It was a killer sound. Your recording sounds good, but it is missing some crunch. I think you could get that from the 421. Just watch out for phasing! Of course

All mics on the same speaker?

No, there was actually two cabs. The 57 and 4040 was on a closed back Marshall 4X12 slant-back, and the 421 was on this really old marshall cab that I'd never seen before. It was probably a foot and a half think and it sounded like balls, except with the other cab.

I record a band quite often that uses the dual rectifier amp and I love that thing. We get really good results from simply using an old sm57 about one inch from the grill on one of the speakers we think sounds better than the rest. Generally speaking we use a lot less distortion when recording than he can get away with live. It keeps the tone more solid. We totally change everything when we record leads with it though. Sometimes we even find we need to use his Marshal instead for the lead work. We get the "Fat" sound from the arrangement of the song more than from a ton of mics. Doubling up and panning parts correctly has been the key for that band.