The Dyn's will get loud, but not as loud as the Mackie's or the JBL's. I've used both in the past, but the Dyn's eat them for lunch as far as balanced sound goes.

I've begun to mix at Bob Katz' reccommended reference level of 84db. At that mix volume no speaker is too small or underpowered, and my ears last longer, too.

For musicians in the control room I'd use Extreme Isolation phones. They can get REALLY loud.

Screws wrote: The Dyn's will get loud, but not as loud as the Mackie's or the JBL's. I've used both in the past, but the Dyn's eat them for lunch as far as balanced sound goes.

I've begun to mix at Bob Katz' reccommended reference level of 84db. At that mix volume no speaker is too small or underpowered, and my ears last longer, too.

For musicians in the control room I'd use Extreme Isolation phones. They can get REALLY loud.

If I'm not mistaken, Bob's recommendation is to mix so that either -20dBFS or -14dBFS registers 84dB at the listening position (meaning that peaks reach as high as 104 dB). In a smaller control room, this can be painful and quite difficult to maintain. In a mastering studio, it works quite well. Of course, for classical music, this works great - for power rock or pop, it can be physically and emotionally draining.

As for the Dynaudios, you won't have a problem filling your room with sound at the proper monitoring distance and appropriately treated surfaces. Of course, don't expect tons of energy below 60Hz.

J...

Cucco wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Bob's recommendation is to mix so that either -20dBFS or -14dBFS registers 84dB at the listening position (meaning that peaks reach as high as 104 dB).

that's more like it
... and even this is using spec in a way that doesn't tell the whole story.

The Broadcast -20/-18dBFS spec really derives from the analog transmitter dynamics issue and over deviation.
In a Digital Stream the transmitter is run at fixed power regardless of program.

So lets get back to the question ... and we have done this over and over on many forums. To throw a single answer in here is just plain wrong and will not work for everyone in every situation.

screws wrote: At that mix volume no speaker is too small or underpowered, and my ears last longer, too.

sorry Steve
I can't agree BUT yes your ears might last longer.

I firmly believe that the audio operators needs to change the gain structure of the audio monitor system depending on the job being done at the time. Even if you did have astronomical dynamic range
There is no way you could survive even a short period of CD mastered material near max volume.
You would need to re-set the gain so that you had the RMS level of 84 ... or what-ever.

While recording you need to be gained-up and CAREFUL when looking at very dynamic stuff so as to hear the subtleties of impedance matching and the non-linear response of the mic-pre.

If you have 20 dB of headroom in the mic-pre you probably need 21dB of headroom in the monitor system.

Back to the Broadcast -20dB thing ... The transmitter is supposed to have 3dB beyond the FS and -2dBFS is never to be used ... ??? and -6dBFS for normal overs then you come down by 12 for normal program and so you have the -20dBFS line up.

DON'T QUOTE ME
my memory is rusty and I'm sure you can find the facts over at the AES or BBC ... there must be a web site.

If you want to hear the strain in the mic-pre, your monitoring needs headroom !
even then you need to trim constantly for each task.

My monitoring switcher has multiple pre-set gain set positions for my regular tasks.

:shock:
phiew
sorry , was that a rant ??
shut up Kev
8)

Is whether the DA's(Wish I had some!) are loud enough the entire question? They are, after all, nearfield monitors - meant to be pretty close to whomever is listening to them - at least in a perfect world. Seems like a "wrong"(Maybe even too stressful) application for these wonderful pieces of gear.

I wonder if Mart might do better with some other sort of monitoring system, for tracking in the room? 'Phones, as mentioned above, might be my first choice, if usable for the purpose, but maybe some sort of "main"(Whole room) monitors could be investigated? For rather little money(Relatively speaking) it would seem that some fairly room-filling amp/speaker combination could be found. Even if not clinically accurate, they might serve volume-wise, for tracking...

Maybe get the 1200 dollar DA's "for nice" AND something else "for loud" - Portable PA stuff, or even the player's already available guitar-type amp(s)?, might suit, if just to play along with?

TG

By the way: No scientific test or anything, but I did get to hear the "bigger" Dynaudios, today, albeit briefly. Sorry I can't give the model number, but they were twice+ as big as the 6a's, being used as the "surround" speakers. 8"? 8+, 9+"? I don't know. But, when the agency went to the head, we checked them out quickly on one piece of acoustic, one piece of heavy-bass electric and I can say that not only did the big DA's NOT "blow me away", I didn't really hear them at all, even rather "loud"(At least I saw him push the pot up pretty far, they never really got to the point of sounding "loud"...). Then, turning the volume down - low - what I heard was very much the same, the music, balanced the same way(Not particularly good music), with NO outstanding "speaker features" of any kind - at all.

I say, why would anyone want to pay this kind of money for the things and not even be able to audibly identify them. Say, "Oh, yeah, they really make the bass sound better", or "well, they are bright in the mids and have a little hole here and there.", or, "They are bass-light."

NO. They were nothing, nothing I could descern. Oh, OK, at first I thought they were a little forefront and brassy in the mids, but, NO, I'm pretty sure it was the mix of that piece which was a little forefront and frankly, a little bass-light..? Just not very well mixed, I'm afraid. The mixer could have used a set of speakers very like these DA's...... What I did and listened to, while I was there, was - embarassingly to me, just what I had heard myself putting in... Damn, no improvement.

The engineer got the new sub out of the box while I was there - cone looks identical to the cone in the mains? A good thing, far as I'm concerned. My only question is "Would I want the sub?" If I had the 6's, betcha' I would - no 6" could have this range all by itself. With these, bigger, DA's? I'll have to hear it first with them. What the hell would sound "even better", I have no idea(Sci-fi soundtracks?) - I'll let you know.... This studio does alot of work, so next time I'm in they'll be nicely broken-in.

Lest you miss my attempts at humor(Often too subtle for even me to get?), these DA's, on first listen, were n-i-c-e. Damned n-i-c-e...

Teddy G.

Teddy,

You're probaly referring to the BM15s with a 10 inch woofer. These things are supposedly some of the best monitors for anywhere near the price. I just ordered a pair for trial, but chances are, they're gonna have to charge me for 'em, cuz they aren't getting them back.

I'll have them by the first part of next week or so.

J...

Dyne BM15a's

Hi all.

I've been using the BM15a's for around two years now. So you have a point of reference I've had a lot of experience with the following over the last ten years (please forgive my lack of models...but you'll get the idea):

Genelec mains (da huge ones) and those little guys whatever they are..1029's or something

JBL mains and the little LSR ones.

Event 20/20 bas

KRK V8's and K-Rocks

Alesis & Behringer models... m1Mk2 active and Truths

Dynaudio BM6a'a and 15a's

You'll notice I've only really tried one brand that (honestly) compares to the Dynaudio models...Genelec. (and maybe two if you 'perhaps' include the Events...only just tho!)

I far prefer Dynaudio BM15a's for the following reasons:

1.Incredibly detailed sound and a good balance of frequencies (can't say whether 'flat' as there's no response graph available, but I don't care due to their translation abilites..more at point three).

2.More forgiving on a room's acoutics for some reason.

3.Hands down the best translation I have ever been able to achieve, not only after a first mix attempt on them in a shit room when I first got them... but to this day now I have had a good time with them. Amazing translatable sound....

4.quality....excellent build quality.

5. Reviews....I have trusted certain names or 'ears' in the biz for a long time now (you know: certain engineers, gurus, reviewers etc)...they haven't led me astray so far, and their reviews of the Dynes were quite favourable. so I ordered them , tried them out for a week, and once again, those 'ears' I trust were right! oh so very right...

So I can't recommend the 15a's enough if you are worried about the 6a's not having enough 'crank' and lo xtension...

The 15a's have too much crankability....you'll be fine.

If you can't afford them, still get the 6a's as they are parhaps even better in the balanced sound dept & will provide awesome translatability, and as someone mentioned b4, you can have these as your mix mons and get a bigger PA set for your clients/mates who want it LOUD!~

cheerio

Ant 8)